Prot: It's ridiculous we have to wait until 8.1

[dcc626]

Can we go back to warriors please, they sucky sucky big time thank you very much

i have a feeling tanks are going to go live as they are on the ptr. every week closer to 12/11 means less chance of nerfs/buffs. enjoy your IP off gcd i guess.

[Marrilaife]

i have a feeling tanks are going to go live as they are on the ptr. every week closer to 12/11 means less chance of nerfs/buffs. enjoy your IP off gcd i guess.

Saddens me a lot, because they said DKs and brewmasters are too good, but they didn't do anything with monk at all. DK got small nerfs (bonestorm nerf and armor nerf), which nobody really believes will shift the m+ meta anyway. Brewmasters got absolutely nothing, which will cement their dominant raid tank position over everyone else.

Not even mentioning the aoe dps nerfs to dh and few other classes that got insta reverted so that will keep the status quo havoc dh is king of m+ and arms warrior is only good during warbreaker + bladestorm combo and on prolonged execute.

[stross01]

I'm not arguing that Prot Warrior is a god awful place. It's just super obnoxious seeing someone making a comment whining about 6 months being a record to being terrible, and so I corrected him on being ignorant.

You can beat any fight with an elemental, enhance, or resto shaman at any item level (within reason).

A prot warrior can disappear in one hit on Ghuun if tried at low ilvl.

Can you see the difference? It's quite binary for a warrior, while it's 'doing less' for shaman dps.

It's super obnoxious to see the ignorant calling other people ignorant. Ignorant ignorant ignorant. And it was only 5 months, not 6!

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Saddens me a lot, because they said DKs and brewmasters are too good, but they didn't do anything with monk at all. DK got small nerfs (bonestorm nerf and armor nerf), which nobody really believes will shift the m+ meta anyway. Brewmasters got absolutely nothing, which will cement their dominant raid tank position over everyone else.

Not even mentioning the aoe dps nerfs to dh and few other classes that got insta reverted so that will keep the status quo havoc dh is king of m+ and arms warrior is only good during warbreaker + bladestorm combo and on prolonged execute.

Bonestorm was a massive nerf, while the armor change was to skill upkeep instead of passive upkeep. Brewmasters got nerfed in both passive and active stagger.

[Marrilaife]

A prot warrior can disappear in one hit on Ghuun if tried at low ilvl.

Any non monk tank can disappear in 1 second on bosses like fetid, mythrax and ghuun. Have fun taking the 80k shadow damage + 100k melee combo on mythrax if you happen to run out of cd / mitigation for whatever reason, and god forbid you still have the max hp reduction stacks. A monk just drinks ironskin and never has to think how to plan their cds to prevent being 1-shot. If they nerfed stagger by 1,5% as wowhead reports, big fucking whoop. Doesn't really change the fact other tanks have to play well to not die, while monk just needs to press 1 button.

Tbh monk was still strong when they had to manage guard, expel harm, chi, elusive brew stacks, upkeep shuffle and all that jazz. Especially late MOP it was very good. But at least you actively used abilities to prevent / lower damage. No idea why Blizzard turned it into such a braindead spec.

Can you see the difference? It's quite binary for a warrior, while it's 'doing less' for shaman dps.

Tanks are more "binary" in their role by nature. You are either good enough to do the job, or you aren't. There is some room for min-maxing, but less than in other roles, tanks have higher skill floor and lower skill ceiling than dps. That's why I feel it's important to change the philosophy towards the tanks, make it easier to "just survive" (lower the skill floor, a dead tank is always a bigger issue than a dead dps in a fight), but up the skill ceiling by adding more ways to express skill to increase your dps, lower the damage intake and so on. For example warrior and paladin have some dps cooldowns, but druid or monk have none atm and managing your dps is more of a factor of getting the gear then mashing the buttons. It kinda sucks.

[Zyky]

You can beat any fight with an elemental, enhance, or resto shaman at any item level (within reason).

A prot warrior can disappear in one hit on Ghuun if tried at low ilvl.

Can you see the difference? It's quite binary for a warrior, while it's 'doing less' for shaman dps.

It's super obnoxious to see the ignorant calling other people ignorant. Ignorant ignorant ignorant. And it was only 5 months, not 6!

Prot Warrior has just as much viability as any Shaman Spec. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...pec=Protection

But that doesn't fit your narrative right? You're making yourself look more and more foolish with every reply.

[Deleted]

Prot Warrior has just as much viability as any Shaman Spec. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...pec=Protection

But that doesn't fit your narrative right? You're making yourself look more and more foolish with every reply.

um wrong

Resto Shamans participated in some of the first Uldir Mythic kills.

Which kill was the first one that featured a prot warrior?

[Deleted]

um wrong

Resto Shamans participated in some of the first Uldir Mythic kills.

Which kill was the first one that featured a prot warrior?

Kind of a weird logic since tank spots are locked to 2, max 3 and we know top guilds used 2x monk for progress

Also early on, there was a prot warrior in the top 50

https://raider.io/characters/us/thunderhorn/Lalasama

[Zyky]

Kind of a weird logic since tank spots are locked to 2, max 3 and we know top guilds used 2x monk for progress

Also early on, there was a prot warrior in the top 50

https://raider.io/characters/us/thunderhorn/Lalasama

That doesn't fit their narrative though. They'd rather complain that Prot is the worst in the game and the most neglected because of 6 months of terrible placement, when Shaman has been terrible for longer than a decade.

[Deleted]

That doesn't fit their narrative though. They'd rather complain that Prot is the worst in the game and the most neglected because of 6 months of terrible placement, when Shaman has been terrible for longer than a decade.

no it just shows your statement was blatantly wrong

Prot Warrior was never more viable than all shaman specs.

The fact that there are only 2 tank slots does not change that.

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Kind of a weird logic since tank spots are locked to 2, max 3 and we know top guilds used 2x monk for progress

Also early on, there was a prot warrior in the top 50

https://raider.io/characters/us/thunderhorn/Lalasama

Top 50?

World 142 says differently and those raider io logs dont even show if he tanked since it also shows two blood dks on those bosses.

Limit used resto shaman on their first kills.

[Deleted]

World 142 says differently and those raider io logs dont even show if he tanked since it also shows two blood dks on those bosses.

They fell off after 4/8, until then I think they were #48 or something but:
Vectis_ Sep 14th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...RtJaN#fight=42
Fetid: Sep. 26th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...VwHA9#fight=34
Zek'voz: Sep. 14th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...RtJaN#fight=10
Zul: Sep. 28th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...xVPyG#fight=33
Mythrax: Oct. 5th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...Xprkv#fight=19
G'huun: Oct. 19th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...PzC#fight=last

Each one tanked by a prot warrior

[Marrilaife]

That doesn't fit their narrative though. They'd rather complain that Prot is the worst in the game and the most neglected because of 6 months of terrible placement, when Shaman has been terrible for longer than a decade.

You should specify what kind of shaman.
Resto had a guaranteed raid spot whole Legion, and generally didn't have it bad over the course of years.
Ele had always scaling issues, it had some good moments in Cata / MOP but that was it.
Enhance had ups and downs, there were patches it did really competitive raid dps, but was often held back by lack of utility (mobility, immunity) or was only brought for specific buff (MOP stormlash).

Tank balance has been questionnable for many years though, except warrior's 5 min of fame at start of emerald nightmare every seasons was monk / dk season with the difference of mid-legion being the druid's time to shine (much longer than warrior). BFA comes and guess what, back to monk / dk season.

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They fell off after 4/8, until then I think they were #48 or something but:
Vectis_ Sep 14th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...RtJaN#fight=42
Fetid: Sep. 26th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...VwHA9#fight=34
Zek'voz: Sep. 14th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...RtJaN#fight=10
Zul: Sep. 28th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...xVPyG#fight=33
Mythrax: Oct. 5th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...Xprkv#fight=19
G'huun: Oct. 19th - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...PzC#fight=last

Each one tanked by a prot warrior

I'm impressed by their early fetid kill, doing it with warrior + dk is total hardmode.

[Deleted]

I'm impressed by their early fetid kill, doing it with warrior + dk is total hardmode.

Why would it be ? Fetid doesn't even hit that hard

I could tank him for a while without mitigation/CDjust for the SB to come out of CD
And also Prot Warr just chews off the damage from Thrashes with Shield Block or just Demo Shout + IP

[Zyky]

no it just shows your statement was blatantly wrong

Prot Warrior was never more viable than all shaman specs.

The fact that there are only 2 tank slots does not change that.

Facts prove other than what your claiming though. Percentage to Percentage of Tank to DPS; Tanks are actually more used than Ele or Enh on Mythic Ghuun

[Marrilaife]

And also Prot Warr just chews off the damage from Thrashes with Shield Block or just Demo Shout + IP

I was under the impression Warrior and DH have the biggest problem to find enough cooldowns to cover every thrash. Also nowadays people probably have 10 ilvls more and all the defensive azerite traits which wasn't the case during early progression, so nowadays it probably doesn't hit as hard as it did when people were still gearing up.

[Kralljin]

You should specify what kind of shaman.
Resto had a guaranteed raid spot whole Legion, and generally didn't have it bad over the course of years.
Ele had always scaling issues, it had some good moments in Cata / MOP but that was it.
Enhance had ups and downs, there were patches it did really competitive raid dps, but was often held back by lack of utility (mobility, immunity) or was only brought for specific buff (MOP stormlash).

As Shaman player, maybe we should instead of fighting for the "worst one" spot rather focus on who keeps causing these problems.

Because i think we can agree on one thing: 8.1 is certainly not what was promised, not even close.

[Deleted]

I was under the impression Warrior and DH have the biggest problem to find enough cooldowns to cover every thrash. Also nowadays people probably have 10 ilvls more and all the defensive azerite traits which wasn't the case during early progression, so nowadays it probably doesn't hit as hard as it did when people were still gearing up.

There are gaps betweem the thrashes when boss is casting so you can recover your CDs. Most of the time I'm just timing shield block + last stand and barely use shield wall at all.

Also Demo shout + full IP can eat thrash to the face and I'm still with 30%+ HP left so I use that to recover Shield Block charges and don't waste Last Stand for it

It also works sub 50% but I'm rather carefull there and call for BoP just in case

[stross01]

Prot Warrior has just as much viability as any Shaman Spec. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...pec=Protection

But that doesn't fit your narrative right? You're making yourself look more and more foolish with every reply.

In almost three months of Uldir, when everyone outgears the content, yeah, things are going to look a little better. Now, instead of cherry-picking things that make your stupid ideas look less stupid, roll it back two months and see how it pans out for prot warrior.

But THAT may not fit your narrative. While you think pretty highly of yourself, I don't really give a shit what you think about me. Sorry

[Zyky]

In almost three months of Uldir, when everyone outgears the content, yeah, things are going to look a little better. Now, instead of cherry-picking things that make your stupid ideas look less stupid, roll it back two months and see how it pans out for prot warrior.

But THAT may not fit your narrative. While you think pretty highly of yourself, I don't really give a shit what you think about me. Sorry

As someone already mentioned, there was a Warrior tank in the top 50 kills for Mythic Ghuun. So ya, keep trying to fit a little narrative that's full of bullshit, because that's how Blizzard is gonna listen to you lol.

[stross01]

Any non monk tank can disappear in 1 second on bosses like fetid, mythrax and ghuun. Have fun taking the 80k shadow damage + 100k melee combo on mythrax if you happen to run out of cd / mitigation for whatever reason, and god forbid you still have the max hp reduction stacks. A monk just drinks ironskin and never has to think how to plan their cds to prevent being 1-shot. If they nerfed stagger by 1,5% as wowhead reports, big fucking whoop. Doesn't really change the fact other tanks have to play well to not die, while monk just needs to press 1 button.

Tbh monk was still strong when they had to manage guard, expel harm, chi, elusive brew stacks, upkeep shuffle and all that jazz. Especially late MOP it was very good. But at least you actively used abilities to prevent / lower damage. No idea why Blizzard turned it into such a braindead spec.

Tanks are more "binary" in their role by nature. You are either good enough to do the job, or you aren't. There is some room for min-maxing, but less than in other roles, tanks have higher skill floor and lower skill ceiling than dps. That's why I feel it's important to change the philosophy towards the tanks, make it easier to "just survive" (lower the skill floor, a dead tank is always a bigger issue than a dead dps in a fight), but up the skill ceiling by adding more ways to express skill to increase your dps, lower the damage intake and so on. For example warrior and paladin have some dps cooldowns, but druid or monk have none atm and managing your dps is more of a factor of getting the gear then mashing the buttons. It kinda sucks.

I don't really think about the mid-tier cheese bosses much, like Fetid. Mythrax is more nuanced because other people in your raid can be a detriment to your survival, while Ghuun is just getting piped by his enormous hits if you're trying to do what a brewmaster does as a non-brewmaster.

They made it brain-dead easy because nobody played the spec because it was awful to play. A good brewmaster was cool, but a bad brewmaster was the worst possible thing that could happen to your group. Like a dps with agro and less mitigation than a dps.

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As someone already mentioned, there was a Warrior tank in the top 50 kills for Mythic Ghuun. So ya, keep trying to fit a little narrative that's full of bullshit, because that's how Blizzard is gonna listen to you lol.

As someone already mentioned, there are no warriors in the top 50 kills if you're talking about Lalasama and Sense. Neither of them are in the top 50. Maybe if you cut their guild ranks in half then subtracted a little bit more.

But your narrative is narrating its own narration of its narratived demise. Narrative.

[Zyky]

As someone already mentioned, there are no warriors in the top 50 kills if you're talking about Lalasama and Sense. Neither of them are in the top 50. Maybe if you cut their guild ranks in half then subtracted a little bit more.

But your narrative is narrating its own narration of its narratived demise. Narrative.

Top 50 US dumbass. Jeez how fucking hard is it to have some common sense these days. Prot Warrior is just as viable as Ele and Enh Shamans regardless of what you want to chop it down to, from a percentage base more Prot Warriors have tanked the fight than Ele AND Enh have DPS'd it.