The hate on LFR

[Gadzooks]

you already turned your entire playerbase into antisocial, single players with LFR and LFD.

No. You're not gonna lay that on casual players. That's laughably untrue, and you should be laughed off the forums for even hinting at it.

You know what ruined the social aspect of the game?

GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO
"Just pull, my raid starts soon"
"I'm only here because my raid leader requires it"

I watched it happen - the people who turned any pug content into grim, relentless, no time wasted, skip everything possible, AOE down everything were almost always raiders, or wanna be raiders, who shit all over the content, and abused for their own needs. Slow down to learn a fight? Oh, there goes the raider, pulling the boss, because it's taking too long. Say anything, the angry raider unloads on you with toxic rhetoric and insults, because it's taking too long. Wipe? Rage quit and insult everyone.

It's one of the big reasons I quit in WOD. I just got tired of it. I got tired of little manlets making snide comments if someone asked a question.

Some of the best times I ever had outside of my raid guild, were pugs in LFR/LFG content where we took our time, chatted, and cracked jokes. Something that was NOT allowed by the try hards by the time WOD rolled around, because THEIR time is more important than anything else.

This kind of player has ruined every part of the game, since vanilla. And not just in WoW, i see it in other games as well, which is why I avoid online content now, I prefer going at my own pace, and not having to put up with posturing, preening try hards who think they're better than everyone else because they push keys on their keyboard better.

Casuals ruined the game, pffffft. That's the most disingenuous, filthy thing I've ever seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot.

[BiggestNoob]

The last I checked, there was absolutely no requirement for LFR or anything else to create long-term friendships or consistent teams.

None.

None at all.

Stop worrying about whether or not LFR stops people you don't know from meeting other people you don't know, and start realizing that what people do in LFR makes NO DIFFERENCE IN YOUR LIFE.

--------------

Also, why the hell do so many of you not read the rest of the thread before you start offering your 'casuals suck' or 'people are lazy' nonsense replies? You don't add anything to the discussion.

Hey buddy, this is an MMO.

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER

This isn't World of Warcraft: Mobile where you're expected to play solo. The game dies when nobody plays it because meaningful relationships don't form and people don't have a reason to actually play the game other than chasing some ilvl or azerite or whatever. There's a reason WoW's playerbase is currently evaporating. LFR is one of the primary reasons.

Some of us want this game to continue and to be far better than it is. Stop being so selfish, just because you can't handle doing normal content or being social doesn't mean the social aspects of the game should be gutted so you can continue your self destructive lifestyle.

[shaunika123]

No. You're not gonna lay that on casual players. That's laughably untrue, and you should be laughed off the forums for even hinting at it.

You know what ruined the social aspect of the game?

GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO
"Just pull, my raid starts soon"
"I'm only here because my raid leader requires it"

I watched it happen - the people who turned any pug content into grim, relentless, no time wasted, skip everything possible, AOE down everything were almost always raiders, or wanna be raiders, who shit all over the content, and abused for their own needs. Slow down to learn a fight? Oh, there goes the raider, pulling the boss, because it's taking too long. Say anything, the angry raider unloads on you with toxic rhetoric and insults, because it's taking too long. Wipe? Rage quit and insult everyone.

It's one of the big reasons I quit in WOD. I just got tired of it. I got tired of little manlets making snide comments if someone asked a question.

Some of the best times I ever had outside of my raid guild, were pugs in LFR/LFG content where we took our time, chatted, and cracked jokes. Something that was NOT allowed by the try hards by the time WOD rolled around, because THEIR time is more important than anything else.

This kind of player has ruined every part of the game, since vanilla. And not just in WoW, i see it in other games as well, which is why I avoid online content now, I prefer going at my own pace, and not having to put up with posturing, preening try hards who think they're better than everyone else because they push keys on their keyboard better.

Casuals ruined the game, pffffft. That's the most disingenuous, filthy thing I've ever seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot.

I mean... why even quote me if you're gonna argue things I've never said?

I guess to put words in my mouth?

I never said anything about casual, I specifically said the entire palyerbase.

I also didnt put it on casuals, I put it on blizzard. for promoting it.

it's not just casuals, it's everyone.

you know why? because of automated randomly matchmade content.

so the casuals get matched into groups with the hardcores without either of them being able to do anything about it.

the hardcore gets mad because he has to do trivial/boring content and the casual is holding him back, which in turn makes him feel like his time is wasted.

and the casual gets mad because he can't enjoy the game, because the hardcore player just keeps rushing. which ruins his enjoyment of the game, and makes him feel like HIS time is wasted.

they both play differently and yet are forced to play with each other through no fault of their own.

that's the problem.


I hope I've been clear the second time now.

[Wingspan]

compare the number of mythic raiding guilds each expansion, ever since wrath/early cata it's been shrinking
when was LFR introduced? end of cata

yeah...

it's obviously not the sole contributor, but it's there

your anecdotal evidence wont change that.

for my anecdotal evidence?: it's been harder and harder to find good players each expac.

Shrinking numbers of mythic guilds is only part of the story though. You would need to correlate the shrinking numbers with the population as a whole in order to prove much. (So we could only compare them into WoD.)

For instance, if over the same stretch of time, WoW lost half its mythic guilds AND half its population then it would be hard to blame LFR for anything. Honestly though, the various raid formats over the years would make it hard to assign a consistent Mythic Raid equivellace in the first place, but I guess you could ballpark a bit.

I am sure that Blizzard has analyzed this nine ways to Sunday. They probably have LFR statistics on who uses it exclusively, how many “step up” into higher raiding, how many fall back and effectively “retire” from regular raiding and everything in-between. If they had any evidence of any kind that it was hurting subs, they would have ditched it long ago.

[Berndorf]

The problem I have with it is that in Bliz's mind it is content for people who don't want to seriously raid when all it really is is hot garbage.

[shaunika123]

Shrinking numbers of mythic guilds is only part of the story though. You would need to correlate the shrinking numbers with the population as a whole in order to prove much. (So we could only compare them into WoD.)

For instance, if over the same stretch of time, WoW lost half its mythic guilds AND half its population then it would be hard to blame LFR for anything. Honestly though, the various raid formats over the years would make it hard to assign a consistent Mythic Raid equivellace in the first place, but I guess you could ballpark a bit.

I am sure that Blizzard has analyzed this nine ways to Sunday. They probably have LFR statistics on who uses it exclusively, how many “step up” into higher raiding, how many fall back and effectively “retire” from regular raiding and everything in-between. If they had any evidence of any kind that it was hurting subs, they would have ditched it long ago.

oh I never said LFR didnt make sense for them financially.(just like a mobile game does)

but it has major drawbacks and just doesnt fit with the genre as a whole.

I just dont think not challenging players at all is good design.

[Nnyco]

Titanforging is the main problem in all of this. If someone doesn't have the time or the skill to raid, they shouldn't be put on the same playing field as those who do. Time investment should matter and it becomes hard to care for your character progression if someone who plays 2 hours a day is able to have higher ilvl than you just because they get lucky or the game is designed around them.

oh just fuck right off, a lfr raider maybe has one or two items that are mythic level when they are lucky, meanwhile a mythic raider has 385+ in every slot

[munkeyinorbit]

Same can be said about you. Who you are to demand same level of rewards in terms of gear and content when you have done 99% less woork than rest of players? Only reason why you defending LFR is fact that you hate players what are more sucesfull than you and you want to be on exact same level as them and at same time you try dismiss their rewards for their effort. Becouse if you cant be special nobady can.

Woah. Projection much? Why are you dissing LFR? There are 11 sources of gear that is equal to or better than LFR. There is no such thing as gearing up with LFR anymore. It is purely for the spectacle now. After all these changes to make LFR irrelevant, why are tryhards like you still harping on about the "bads" that run it? What has you so insecure that you think it is ok to attack someone?

[Wingspan]

oh I never said LFR didnt make sense for them financially.(just like a mobile game does)

but it has major drawbacks and just doesnt fit with the genre as a whole.

I don’t know, I kind of think it has way too many positives that grossly outweigh the negatives (without even considering the profit side of it).


It gets a lot of blame for community issues but friendly player base aspect of gaming rarely works beyond a couple of years in any game I have ever played... probably because that is generally how long it takes for veterans to start becoming impatient with noobs. There is almost nothing that a gaming company can do to prevent that.

The Vanilla community was a bit of a perfect storm that will likely not happen again. To be honest, the vanilla community is pretty overrated in my opinion... it was far more volatile than most seem to remember.

[shaunika123]

I don’t know, I kind of think it has way too many positives that grossly outweigh the negatives.

The friendly player base aspect of gaming rarely works beyond a couple of years in any game I have seen... because that is generally how long it takes for veterans to start becoming impatient with noobs. There is almost nothing that a gaming company can do to prevent that.

The Vanilla community was a bit of a perfect storm that will likely not happen again. To be honest, the vanilla community is pretty overrated in my opinion... it was far more volatile than most seem to remember.

again, I never said they don't.

but the problem is that it works in a way where the positives arent really felt by one demographic

and the negatives arent felt by the other.

which creates the whole "I love LFR" "I hate LFR" gap.


and TBH, I dont mind that the community was volatile, the point is that there was one.

[nyc81991]

Let's just ignore or hand wave away that raids contain big chunks of the storyline, and the last raid of the expansion almost always has the big conclusion to it.

But you keep thinking it's just gear.

Normal raiding is extremely easy to pug fyi. Try it sometime.

[Irian]

Because I don't believe the game's entire focus should be on completing a raid on 3 or so tiers of the same raid per tier.

It's not fun. It's not rewarding. Completing LFR requires no investment, no commitment, and without those things raiding isn't even raiding. The challenge of raiding is in the management, composition and coordination. LFR has none of this.

Why have this content in the game that provides absolutely no pushback, has no difficulty curve and doesn't ask anything of its players? What is the point of this kind of difficulty level? LFR is a pointless tack-on to an already bloated raiding system designed by lead developers that care about nothing but raiding.

I want LFR gone because I want this idea that everyone's endgame has to be the same raid to fuck off. The developers are obsessed with funneling everyone into the same type of content when raiding was a niche style of content in the past that only a certain group thought of as their endgame, and coincidentally those times are the ones people enjoyed the most. Classic? BC? Wrath? All three of them had one thing in common: the lack of this horrible "raid or die" system. They didn't force people to make raid dungeons their endgame if they weren't ready for raiding, and instead provided smaller content that was easier on the individual.

[Deleted]

LFR is such a bad experience that i even forgot it exists in this expansion. I'm always just doing mythic+, bg's, warfronts, rares and WQ's on my alts and i totally forget that it's even a thing. Honestly... it's been for the best.

Last time i did LFR was when the Zul wing came out and everyone wouldjust leave before Zul cause they couldn't be arsed with the trash and the encounter. Honestly, i felt the same way. Just never went back. xD

[Zandalariprelate]

There's saltiness in ever aspect of the game, not just LfR. LfD and battlegrounds has its fair share.

I still remember the saltiness for the pet battle: What the heck is this, did blizzard wants to steal pokemon battles and make wow mobile too? WRYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

[Jastall]

oh I never said LFR didnt make sense for them financially.(just like a mobile game does)

but it has major drawbacks and just doesnt fit with the genre as a whole.

I just dont think not challenging players at all is good design.

The vast majority of this game has never been hard at all. Again, you could clear MC with half your raid barely being at their keyboard. And for all the hype it gets, leveling in Classic or TBC was never hard either. The difficulty in this game has always been very top-heavy, and that's never going to change.

But for some reason it's a giant problem when LFR is easy as well, as if raids were the special snowflake content that isn't allowed to be easy. Bullshit to that, I say.

[Wingspan]

again, I never said they don't.

but the problem is that it works in a way where the positives arent really felt by one demographic

and the negatives arent felt by the other.

which creates the whole "I love LFR" "I hate LFR" gap.


and TBH, I dont mind that the community was volatile, the point is that there was one.

Heh, my personal theory is that 99 percent of all LFR hate comes down to one thing and one thing only... gear. If LFR gave no gear whatsoever and people somehow still flocked to it and ran it night and day, we would barely ever hear a single complaint.

Think of Pet Battles. Almost any “perceived” negative aspect of LFR can be applied to Pet Battles. They don’t teach you how to play your character... they do not encourage the social aspect of the game... you don’t need a guild to do them and you can get rewards from them even if you are bad at the game... but there is no gear, so almost no one complains. (Sure, it’s the internet, so SOMEONE will complain, but very very few will.)

[tacoloco]

When you don't have time to interact with other players, you should try single player games.

It's always fun when gatekeepers show up. Who the hell are you to tell anyone what they should do?

[khazmodan]

Because it forced the entire game to tailor itself around an activity that completely lacks challenge while dishing out increasingly powerful rewards. and making all content so easily accessible it cheapened the entire experience and made a huge part of the game obsolete (including social interactions).

Not really hard to understand provided one really want to understand.

/agree completely

[Mysterymask]

its a difficulty setting...something that has existed for YEARS....I don't get upset that people can beat Megaman 2 on easy where I decided to do it on Difficult...same with things like Metal Gear Solid, Star Ocean Till the End of Time, Viewtiful Joe, etc etc etc....to me being pissy that having an easy mode caters to the bad crowd is like complaining that someone who played through single player Tekken 3 with every character on 1 star, 30 second, one round doesn't deserve all the characters and endings it unlocks

[Vineri]

Who the hell are you to tell anyone what they should do?

Oh I dunno .. just another player? .. you know, one of your peers?

Sorry for the /bunch . Just saying it like it is.