The hate on LFR

[Ruts]

Turn off chat and pretend you're soloing with a bunch of backward npcs. That's what I do.

[shaunika123]

Turn off chat and pretend you're soloing with a bunch of backward npcs. That's what I do.

which is precisely what the problem is with the whole concept.

thank you for providing such a great example :P

[Deleted]

That's also a very fair point, in addition to the problems the LFR causes to the overarching design.

You see, my first message was simply stating facts about LFR and wasn't addressed to you.

No, it's a very bad point because LFR is not here to provide those elements for you, it's merely preview (story mode) for a real raid. You are not stating facts about LFR either but your opinions.

[Twdft]

The issue is down to sense of accomplishment.
Player A spent 3 weeks wiping hard on a the final boss.
Player B fell asleep halfway through an LFR and still getting the same "credit".
Of course player A is gonna complain. They put in so much more effort. Where's the payoff? A measly 15 ilevels on items that are worthless in a month or two anyway?
Player A will be ever so slightly bitter about that.

I am player A. I don't give a fuck about player B getting the same "credit".

[Mysterymask]

1. The excuse is not doing LFR, the excuse is saying you don't want to do HC or Mythic because you don't have the time. When really, you don't need much time at all to do either. Plenty of guilds out there that clear hc in one day then don't raid for the rest of the week. You mean to tell me you can't spend a couple hours a week with a guild clearing hc? LFR can take even longer sometimes.

That is actually one of the problems....

I can and do play video games for hours yes...but the difference is a raid is actually a bit of a commitment

Say I wanna play Bloodbourne for 3 hours..I'm about 1 hour into it and I get called into work...
I can just quit and go do what I need to do..

with a raid I can do that too but now I'm literally ruining the day of 9-29 other people ESPECIALLY if I happen to be something critical in said raid
if you don't mind that or you usually don't have this problem that's all fine and dandy for the rest of us...we gotta LFR

[Raelbo]

yes, the bosses wouldN'T die, but the thing is, when you have 24 basically NPCs (since you're randomly matched with them, and are just non interactive players) with you, you dont feel the responsibility, you just randomly press keys and jump around and the boss dies. and even when you wipe, you wont go "well I couldve done it better"
you go "damnit im with a shitty group"

and that's your experience. "oh that's all I need to do for the boss to die, neat"

In short: Your LFR experience is what you make of it.

I mean if your principle complaint is "I can literally afk in LFR and get loot, what a joke, looolol" then my obvious question is: So why are you going afk? I don't do LFR particularly often, but when I am there I like to actually play. I like seeing how well I can execute mechanics, and getting decent dps numbers. And given that I am seldom at the top of the meters, I am not the only one.

Also, every now and again, LFR spits out a close encounter where I really feel that the effort put in by me and maybe 2 or 3 others like me, was the difference between a wipe and a kill. That's a decent experience (sure, not the same as real raiding, but not bad)

[shaunika123]

In short: Your LFR experience is what you make of it.

I mean if your principle complaint is "I can literally afk in LFR and get loot, what a joke, looolol" then my obvious question is: So why are you going afk?

because I'm not incentivized not to.
if I dont have to do anything to accomplish something, then why should I do anything?

[Voltsmasher]

It's probably been mentioned already but for a while it was a necessary part of helping you gear up quickly. I mean you need to take every chance for an upgrade.

This was a while back though -like before mythic difficulty existed.

So I think that made people hate on it pretty hard. On the other hand, now days I forget it actually exists after it's opening week.

- - - Updated - - -

because I'm not incentivized not to.
if I dont have to do anything to accomplish something, then why should I do anything?

Because that's boring? If your complaint is LFR is stupid and boring then you shouldn't queue for it.

[MisterBigglez]

That is actually one of the problems....

I can and do play video games for hours yes...but the difference is a raid is actually a bit of a commitment

Say I wanna play Bloodbourne for 3 hours..I'm about 1 hour into it and I get called into work...
I can just quit and go do what I need to do..

with a raid I can do that too but now I'm literally ruining the day of 9-29 other people ESPECIALLY if I happen to be something critical in said raid
if you don't mind that or you usually don't have this problem that's all fine and dandy for the rest of us...we gotta LFR

I did mention in the first post that this reason is probably only true to a small amount of people and I totally understand that, especially with a job where you can literally get a call and you gotta go instantly. Still, thanks to flex raiding, you could still do HC. If you know that you're in a position where you might have to leave, then just play a dps, believe me, noone will be upset if you have to go, but if you only tank or only heal, then yeah, you have to make the decision of being stuck with LFR but you can tank/heal, or do HC but play a role you are not fond of.

[shaunika123]

Because that's boring? If your complaint is LFR is stupid and boring then you shouldn't queue for it.

again, it's a proven fact that most humans would rather do boring easy stuff than hard not boring stuff.

which is why most video games shy away from giving you shit for no effort.

I'll bring up my D3 example with the lockbox opening strats again, which speaks for itself.

I'M also not queueing for it. never said I do queue for it.
ignoring a problem however doesnt mean it'll go away.

[Mysterymask]

I did mention in the first post that this reason is probably only true to a small amount of people and I totally understand that, especially with a job where you can literally get a call and you gotta go instantly. Still, thanks to flex raiding, you could still do HC. If you know that you're in a position where you might have to leave, then just play a dps, believe me, noone will be upset if you have to go, but if you only tank or only heal, then yeah, you have to make the decision of being stuck with LFR but you can tank/heal, or do HC but play a role you are not fond of.

yeah....the play a DPS thing only works in pugs....I haven't been able to stand pugs since BC and it hasn't changed ever....even then more and more DPS seem to have to step up to the plate and be critical in more and more groups than ever...with Lock Portals, Rogue Soaking, Hunter MDs...I for one am GLAD blizz made this design but on the other hand its becoming more and more rare for the "We just need you to stab the boss" class anymore

[Voltsmasher]

again, it's a proven fact that humans would rather do boring easy stuff than hard not boring stuff.

which is why most video games shy away from giving you shit for no effort.

I'll bring up my D3 example with the lockbox opening strats again, which speaks for itself.

I'M also not queueing for it. never said I do queue for it.
ignoring a problem however doesnt mean it'll go away.

What I mean is if its so boring that you don't even play them do islands or BG or something. LFR doesn't give you gear that even compares to many world quest rewards.

Basically what I mean is that if you've seen the raid once why ever go in again if you don't think it's fun?

[shaunika123]

What I mean is if its so boring that you don't even play them do islands or BG or something. LFR doesn't give you gear that even compares to many world quest rewards.

Basically what I mean is that if you've seen the raid once why ever go in again if you don't think it's fun?

that's literally a problem with LFR though.

it's a one and done "see this once and then cancel for 3 months" type of thing, because that's the behaviour it promotes with how it's designed.

you're not engaged, you're not challenged and you're not socializing. so you basically watch a cinematic of the raid (which LFR basically is) and then quit for 3 months.

and yet somehow this is what blizz is doing to keep players playing.

they couldve come up with a raiding system that's actually a raid, and not a pale imitation, and makes you wnating to come back for more.

that's my issue. it discourages potential raiders with how it's designed. and contributes to the ever shrinking pool of raiders.

[Voltsmasher]

that's my issue. it discourages potential raiders with how it's designed. and contributes to the ever shrinking pool of raiders.

I would say part of it is the amount of people the put in each group. If it were 10 man they could tune it more like a dumbed down mega dungeon

[Mysterymask]

again, it's a proven fact that most humans would rather do boring easy stuff than hard not boring stuff.

which is why most video games shy away from giving you shit for no effort.

I'll bring up my D3 example with the lockbox opening strats again, which speaks for itself.

I'M also not queueing for it. never said I do queue for it.
ignoring a problem however doesnt mean it'll go away.

...

Wow has had that since BC
yes people always go through the path of least resistance

in BC (yes everyone will chime in saying NO I DIDN'T) people generally farmed mech and Kara for badges for gear...and then when you were able to buy epics with honor so you could lose a couple hundred bgs and get some gear people fucking did that...why cause it was easy

then we had the great BC Nerf and hooo boy did raid participation skyrocket

or in Wrath...where blizz had to literally bribe people to do occulus...

and of course the final important thing...do you remember how often you heard this

"I don't want the ICC/DS debuff on but if we turn it off then we are going to be behind the other guilds who leave it on!" have you ever been in a group where either of those were relevant and they turned the debuff off....shit I was in a pug that actually broke up because some asshole actually turned it off and ran off...

Mists of Pandaria..blizz literally said the upgrade system was its way of nerfing the raid....have you seen ANY person turn someone down because they did upgrade....it was usually the otherway around wasn't it?

[Danner]

I am player A. I don't give a fuck about player B getting the same "credit".

Same

If everyone thought like you, this topic would have been about faction bias instead, I reckon.

[araine]

no. lfr sucks because you can't make your own group

Key issue here the .io idiots cant wreck another part of the game since if they had access to restricting it they would demand you to have aotc and 950 gear for LFR

[Jastall]

comparatively to the times it has been.

and in vanilla if you pulled more than 2 mobs you usually died(unless you were a hunter), or had to use consumables, nowadays you can pull 30. how is that not easier?

you couldnt just rush into a camp of mobs, you have to pull them out one by one, because they ran away and chainpulled each other etc. you had to put infinitely more thought into leveling in vanilla.

Same shit as in Suramar or when you're undergeared in BfA really. That's not hard. And the point is that endgame raiding was fairly easy until AQ40 and yet rewarded the best gear in the game by a country mile, when I'm pretty sure a DM tribute run or getting high-end PvP gear (if you weren't farming/getting carried anyways) was harder than most raid bosses until Vael at least.

The game's reward structure has never equated difficulty with rewards as a hard rule, and more as a trend. And in BfA Mythic raiders have way, way better gear than the 340 trash tossed at LFR players. So again, who cares? Easy mode rewards the poorest rewards, as it should.

[Jujudrood]

My main gripe with LFR is that it's so anonymous that there's no real responsibility or team effort with it.
Now, not everyone goes in like an AFK turd expecting free stuff, but you can get those and it's harder to weed out than, say, a guild or pug run, where the RL has explicit agency over who is there and can make these quick decisions on under-performers.
(not to mention folks who want to AFK and/or 'get free loot', as it were, usually don't apply for the run to begin with).

If you happen to get a lot of those who either decide to do bare minimum, constantly complain in chat because personA is doing X instead of Y, or are just flat out bad at the game and just spam frostbolt until their fingers fall off, then it could get very frustrating as people vote to kick, try to replace a bad tank who can't taunt on time, or any other issue that arises because it's a random collection of people where no single person has any semblance of control.
This can lead to not only long queue times for people who want to venture in, but then queue times to fill in those who get kicked, who drop due to frustration, etc.
It just makes the overall experience feel... bad.

Now, I don't do LFR and haven't since maybe ToS? I think I took an alt or two through there anyway, but otherwise not something I typically do.
Point is, maybe the experience has changed since my last and maybe the playerbase is getting a little better/more responsive to directions/willing to perform baseline mechanics, but then again, maybe they are the same old "anonymous" folks from bumfuck wherever just doing what they want to do and the group be damned because "it's their sub so they can play however they want". /shrug

[Deleted]

Key issue here the .io idiots cant wreck another part of the game since if they had access to restricting it they would demand you to have aotc and 950 gear for LFR

IO was created becouse you can no longer recognize players skill and content progression thanks to welfare epicks and titanforging. There is so many LFR heroes like myseld what walks in 370+ gear withiout touching any mythic + or raid at all.