The hate on LFR

[Jinpachi]

It used to be very simple

Not enough time? No raid for you
Not skilled enough? No raid for you
Not in a guild/lead a guild? No raid for you
Bad reputation on server? No raid for you

But the casuals are the demographic now so they cater to them as they are the majority

They were always the demographic. You simply cannot sustain a business model with core gamers, there aren't enough of them. They tried it that way, it didnt work, now they do it this way. When it stops working, they'll try something different. It's called Kaizen, or Continuous Improvement.

- - - Updated - - -

Most of the people who do LFR log more hours per week than the people who do Mythic. It has nothing to do with casual and everything to do with bad. It's about the millennial way of thinking that they're here so they deserve it even if they don't.

You'd have a point if it was free to play. As long as people are paying they will have a say in the final product. That's how public companies operate

[Muajin76]

No reason to hand out free epics for something you can easily afk through. If Blizzard excuse "its so everyone can see the story" then they shouldn't be getting shit from it.

Many players get kicked for going afk in lfr. *ie..wiping on gthuun...then kicking players that just stand and die before p2*

[Lazel]

Because LFR should have never existed to begin with, it's a huge mistake to the game but now they're too scared to remove it. That's why people hate on lfr, because its the most useless thing they added to the game when no one has ever asked for it.

[Mysterymask]

Most of the people who do LFR log more hours per week than the people who do Mythic. It has nothing to do with casual and everything to do with bad. It's about the millennial way of thinking that they're here so they deserve it even if they don't.

the weird thing its almost like the Mythic players go out of their way to NOT play the game lets look at what Mythic Raiders bitched about in the last few expansions..

BFA: Titanforging sucks we have to raid more!
Legion: nooo I actually HAVE to grind AP outside of raiding every week..plus titanforging sucks makes me have to raid moar.
Dreanor: 10 people hard mode is gone we mad (these people just became Mythic+ players) Raider's were otherwise fairly ok. Have to do LFR if cant full clear Mythic for Legendary
Mists: TOO MANY DAILYS TO GET READY TO RAID (vanished shortly after 8.1) I have to do LFR if we can't full clear heroic to get Legendary!
Cata: ....honestly other than Dragon Soul ya'll were pretty content with Cata
Wrath: Raids too easy
BC: Still in that nice little Vanilla mode so it got to the point where oh things are easier and things are nice so *shrug*

honestly ....if I were blizz I'd cater more to the people who seem to actually WANT to play the game versus the ones who just kinda wanna show up do their thing and leave...Mythic raiders seem want to blitz for a month....go to the point where they only have to log in once a week and once they get to the point they are satisfied with gearing leave until next patch.....

[Lazel]

the weird thing its almost like the Mythic players go out of their way to NOT play the game lets look at what Mythic Raiders bitched about in the last few expansions..

BFA: Titanforging sucks we have to raid more!
Legion: nooo I actually HAVE to grind AP outside of raiding every week..plus titanforging sucks makes me have to raid moar.
Dreanor: 10 people hard mode is gone we mad (these people just became Mythic+ players) Raider's were otherwise fairly ok. Have to do LFR if cant full clear Mythic for Legendary
Mists: TOO MANY DAILYS TO GET READY TO RAID (vanished shortly after 8.1) I have to do LFR if we can't full clear heroic to get Legendary!
Cata: ....honestly other than Dragon Soul ya'll were pretty content with Cata
Wrath: Raids too easy
BC: Still in that nice little Vanilla mode so it got to the point where oh things are easier and things are nice so *shrug*

honestly ....if I were blizz I'd cater more to the people who seem to actually WANT to play the game versus the ones who just kinda wanna show up do their thing and leave...Mythic raiders seem want to blitz for a month....go to the point where they only have to log in once a week and once they get to the point they are satisfied with gearing leave until next patch.....

I'll take the bait considering I have nothing better to do.

BFA: Raiders hate titanforging because its one of the worst things added to the game ever, period. Nothing to do with grind, its just pure luck addition to gear which should have never been there to begin with.

Legion: Grinding AP to be able to kill a boss is one of the worst additions, yes, you clearly have 0 clue what you are talking about judging by the way you type all this shit, farming for 35 traits , spamming the shit out of m+ just so you are eligible for dps check on Helya wasn't nice, I shouldn't have to grind out hardcore just to be able to get a %5 increase on my character, to be able to defeat the boss.

MoP : No one actually cared about dailies, most of hardcore raiders wants mop back.

Also , for your information, people might want to login to game just for raids because raids are the only thing they are doing good lately, ever thought of that ?

[Mysterymask]

Also , for your information, people might want to login to game just for raids because raids are the only thing they are doing good lately, ever thought of that ?

...and what WOULD you like to do outside of raiding..what could blizz actually add that would cause mythic raiders to log in for more than just to raid after the initail grind is done? Especially considering that Mythic Raiding is supposed to be the end all of the character ladder.

Simpy by design Mythic raiding is almost supposed to be the way it is (thing that people log in once a week to do and log out) because you're at the top ..everything else isn't going to be relevant outside of a cosmetic reward here and there...

Not to mentoin..as been said MANY MANY times...ya'll are the minority the elite the best of the best in Blizzard's eye but the ones below you are what keeps the servers running the bads as you said....casual doesn't just mean "I don't have time to be good" but "I don't have the desire to commit to what Mythic raiding entails" it was intimidating back then to a lot of people and its intimidating now majority of players don't wanna do that but blizz has to keep the lights on somehow so we gotta cater to those people

[Deleted]

Also , for your information, people might want to login to game just for raids because raids are the only thing they are doing good lately, ever thought of that ?

Raid or die for the win

The game is still raid or die, CHANGE MY MIND!

[chase_the_mofo]

It used to be very simple

Not enough time? No raid for you
Not skilled enough? No raid for you
Not in a guild/lead a guild? No raid for you
Bad reputation on server? No raid for you

But the casuals are the demographic now so they cater to them as they are the majority

This.


But activision wants more money than happy players.

[rohoz]

I'll take the bait considering I have nothing better to do.

BFA: Raiders hate titanforging because its one of the worst things added to the game ever, period. Nothing to do with grind, its just pure luck addition to gear which should have never been there to begin with.

Legion: Grinding AP to be able to kill a boss is one of the worst additions, yes, you clearly have 0 clue what you are talking about judging by the way you type all this shit, farming for 35 traits , spamming the shit out of m+ just so you are eligible for dps check on Helya wasn't nice, I shouldn't have to grind out hardcore just to be able to get a %5 increase on my character, to be able to defeat the boss.

MoP : No one actually cared about dailies, most of hardcore raiders wants mop back.

Also , for your information, people might want to login to game just for raids because raids are the only thing they are doing good lately, ever thought of that ?

(mythic) raiders don't hate tf, it's the tryhards that prob only do half of heroic that do

[Deleted]

I don't raid since Cata and I didn't die...in fact I find agreeable content and things to do outside raids.

There is no changing anybody's mind if they are not in a receptive mood. I don't even know what you mean by "raid or die" - do you think you have to do it because only that gives the best gear. That isn't even true for normal or heroic raids...so if anything it should be "mythic or die".

And ofc the big percentage of non-raiders don't seem to agree or care. But ofc it can be what the game is for YOU

PvE? the game is not raid or die?
What is there?
1) PvP
2) Mythic +

[Deleted]

I think the excuse of not having enough time is probably only true to a very small amount of players. There are plenty of guild who can clear mythic while devoting 2 days a week / 6-8 hours.

LFR players are known to be toxic, lazy, greedy and incompetent. I also see the excuse of "wanting to see the raid" quite often which is probably only slightly true. If this was really the case, why would you care at all about the gear? If you don't raid or pvp, gear is unnecessary, yet you see so many people complaining that they can't get gear because the content they do only offers so much.

LFR itself isn't a problem for me, it's the players who use it and expect more for doing so little.

LFR players are usually the ones crying about how wow is dead, wow is too easy, not enough content in wow. They're the people that sign up to LFR as healer in a dps spec, sign up as Tank in a dps spec.
They generally bitch the most about pretty much everything, and now! they bitching about being labelled "bitch". . . I smile in quiet contentment at the absurdity of it all

[Deleted]

No they are not. MMORPG players kept wow alive. Those players were core audience and this audience is long gone. Casual were not who paid for the game development. Casuals what you talk about start game level up 120 join LFR and quit. These people do not bring money.

If this was the truth (it's not) then Blizzard would never change Vanilla formula and would never make game more accessible. Casuals are the ones bringing the money, your kind is less than 1% of total player base and hopefully when Classic hits you will all go there and stay in your Vanilla bubble for eternity repeating same content over and over again.

[Deleted]

Yeah sure...that is exactly all there is to the game...nothing else ^^- and it is of course true for everyone.

Im thinking really hard and cant find anything else.

What do you mean? Tmog? Pet Battles? Roleplaying?
Not for everyone.

[BiggestNoob]

If this was the truth (it's not) then Blizzard would never change Vanilla formula and would never make game more accessible. Casuals are the ones bringing the money, your kind is less than 1% of total player base and hopefully when Classic hits you will all go there and stay in your Vanilla bubble for eternity repeating same content over and over again.

Interestingly, the actual content in this game is more exclusive than it was in Vanilla, BC, or WoTLK. Only in Cata did it start moving into this realm. It's also nowhere near 1%. Somewhere between 10-20% of the playerbase has killed a mythic raid boss this tier. Far more have done mythic+ or some form of rated PvP. What's more likely is that the casual playerbase you speak of has been evaporating while the other one is the only one that has grown.

I've looked at this in previous expansions when people make this argument. It's fairly rare for a player to repeat LFR and not be doing real content. The people who are the most consistent players are people clearing heroic or mythic. These people are also the ones who are the most engaged with the remaining social aspects of the game. They have a reason to keep playing that's far stronger than just "there's stuff in this game I haven't done."

[Furadds]

LFR is the true Mythic. It will test your resolve, patience and inner peace regarding what fate Humanity deserves.

[Deleted]

Yeah, we have established that earlier what the game is for YOU and that you cannot for the life of it put yourself into anybody elses shoes and that people can NOT raid and still NOT die

Im not exactly pretending to know what other people do.
Im not talking about "who plays more WoW", "who brings in the money", etc, stuff like that we cant guess who is, only Blizzard knows.

Im talking about "what is there to do at end game"

And that, kind sir is not really a mistery.
We know pretty well what the endgame is

actual endgame:
-raids
-pvp
-Mythic +

Failed attempts at endgame:
-World Quests
-Island Expeditions
-Warfronts

Niche community endgame:
-Roleplaying
-pet battles
-transmog
-world pvp

- - - Updated - - -

Do you agree @det?

[Arakakao]

The hate on LFR is ridiculous. As someone has said before, different difficul levels are nothing out of place in videogames.

"It devaluates hardcore raiding" No, it doesn't. Beating LFR doesn't make other modes irrelevant, since there's the incentive of doing the hardest difficulties. Besides, mythic mode have unique phases and mythic gear has a distinctive look. I'm fine with it.

"People don't try harder because of LFR". False. People who don't do anything beside LFR are the kind of player that won't do anything more. Back in vanilla, when LFR didn't exist, I leveled up to 60, did some PvP until a grew bored of it and tried raiding. I really wanted to raid, but I couldn't commit to guild scheludes or needs. Guess what I did? I just unsubed until BC came out.

"You can AFK in LFR and get mythic level gear". False. Even if LFR is easy, if you don't pay attention to mechanics it can lead to a wipe. Guess you never tried to do LFR Aggramar uh? Also "mythic level gear" not in a mile. Only if you get titanforging, and even then it's no way mythic-quality. Oh, and you seem to forget that azerite gear can't be forged.

"MMOs are supposed to be a group game". No, they are supposed to be online games with a massive number of players online.

Overall, LFR hate comes just from elitist jerks that seem to hate other people having fun.

[ohwell]

the weird thing its almost like the Mythic players go out of their way to NOT play the game lets look at what Mythic Raiders bitched about in the last few expansions..

BFA: Titanforging sucks we have to raid more!
Legion: nooo I actually HAVE to grind AP outside of raiding every week..plus titanforging sucks makes me have to raid moar.
Dreanor: 10 people hard mode is gone we mad (these people just became Mythic+ players) Raider's were otherwise fairly ok. Have to do LFR if cant full clear Mythic for Legendary
Mists: TOO MANY DAILYS TO GET READY TO RAID (vanished shortly after 8.1) I have to do LFR if we can't full clear heroic to get Legendary!
Cata: ....honestly other than Dragon Soul ya'll were pretty content with Cata
Wrath: Raids too easy
BC: Still in that nice little Vanilla mode so it got to the point where oh things are easier and things are nice so *shrug*

honestly ....if I were blizz I'd cater more to the people who seem to actually WANT to play the game versus the ones who just kinda wanna show up do their thing and leave...Mythic raiders seem want to blitz for a month....go to the point where they only have to log in once a week and once they get to the point they are satisfied with gearing leave until next patch.....

If I were Blizz I'd cater to people who are good at the game, want to play the game, AND put more money into it. Mythic raiders bring more money to the game than LFR players. The lie that casuals are the backbone of the game is a lie that needs to stop. Monetarily the top end raiders are supporting the game. Most of the top 50 guilds have anywhere from 2-4 accounts per player and they don't necessarily use all of those to clear mythic. Also in terms of ad revenue and other events, the top PVE and PVP players bring in more money in general than Joe I Suckatthegame does.

- - - Updated - - -

The hate on LFR is ridiculous. As someone has said before, different difficul levels are nothing out of place in videogames.

"It devaluates hardcore raiding" No, it doesn't. Beating LFR doesn't make other modes irrelevant, since there's the incentive of doing the hardest difficulties. Besides, mythic mode have unique phases and mythic gear has a distinctive look. I'm fine with it.

"People don't try harder because of LFR". False. People who don't do anything beside LFR are the kind of player that won't do anything more. Back in vanilla, when LFR didn't exist, I leveled up to 60, did some PvP until a grew bored of it and tried raiding. I really wanted to raid, but I couldn't commit to guild scheludes or needs. Guess what I did? I just unsubed until BC came out.

"You can AFK in LFR and get mythic level gear". False. Even if LFR is easy, if you don't pay attention to mechanics it can lead to a wipe. Guess you never tried to do LFR Aggramar uh? Also "mythic level gear" not in a mile. Only if you get titanforging, and even then it's no way mythic-quality. Oh, and you seem to forget that azerite gear can't be forged.

"MMOs are supposed to be a group game". No, they are supposed to be online games with a massive number of players online.

Overall, LFR hate comes just from elitist jerks that seem to hate other people having fun.

lol LFR hate has nothing to do with elitism and everything to do with millennialism coming from the LF"R" players. It's called entitlement and that's why people hate on them. They feel like they're somehow entitled to get a queef in your sleep version and still get rewarded.

[HuxNeva]

When you don't have time to interact with other players, you should try single player games.

There is a difference between enjoying a cup of coffee by yourself in a bustling coffee bar, and having a cup of coffee by yourself in your empty apartment.

The game has been accessible to passively social people (those that play in an implicit social environment but don't actively part-take in the explicit social interactions) since the launch. A very large contingent, even majority, of WoW players have always been like this. 'Queuing' merely opened up parts of content previously closed to this player segment.

I have said this time and time again: the different modes (LFR, N, HC, M) don't exist to accommodate different 'skill', they primarily exist to suit the different social play styles in the game.

[rohoz]

There is a difference between enjoying a cup of coffee by yourself in a bustling coffee bar, and having a cup of coffee by yourself in your empty apartment.

The game has been accessible to passively social people (those that play in an implicit social environment but don't actively part-take in the explicit social interactions) since the launch. A very large contingent, even majority, of WoW players have always been like this. 'Queuing' merely opened up parts of content previously closed to this player segment.

I have said this time and time again: the different modes (LFR, N, HC, M) don't exist to accommodate different 'skill', they primarily exist to suit the different social play styles in the game.

People don't get this.
If you only talk to people because you want help for a quest, you aren't a social being. Vanilla didn't have a "community" but it had people who were codependent. Once systems developed to grant people independence, they found no reason to rely/communicate with others. The culmination of these systems, is LFR.