What happened to #NoChanges?

[Kynario]

Are you speaking about people who hate Vanilla but yet spam so much the Classic forums (about which they should logically not care) that they end up being half the total traffic on it ?

Yes, that perplexes me. Completely.

It's like following a band on Facebook or Reddit just for the sake of letting everyone know how much you hate them, and how everyone else should too.

WoW does have a strange hold on people, even if they don't play it anymore, they still continue to passionately (to put it mildly) express their opinions on it.

[vindicatorx]

It's not like the limitations were a secret, considering they were all over the place through official statements. You can claim you care as little about it as you wish, but the fact that you took the time to use the public interest in an extremely limited demo as an indicator for the reception of the full game tells me otherwise. You could as well have used a little logic to analyze why when you were at it. The amount of times a person wants to see a particular scene in Game of Thrones in repeat succession has little to do with their overall interest for the show.

Being a pragmatic, I don't see the need for a "realist" to spend time concocting nihilist predictions about something they don't care for. I mean... you don't care enough to pay attention to the fifty posts about the demo on the front page and the official forums, but you care enough to know for how long people played the demo. As for the game itself, it will last for just as long as the interested people want it to. Neither shorter, nor longer.

I guess I have to explain how the front page works. I saw this topic on the front page and read part of the first post. I had read other posts about how disappointing the beta was to the author of the post I read 2 both claimed they played it for like an hour and didn't log back in. I had no idea it was going on didn't know it's limits or anything else about it. As I said I do not care as I will never play it. My predictions aren't nihilistic, perhaps you should look up the meaning. If you want to call them predictions they are based on evidence that all games present. The longer a game goes on unchanged the less people maintain interest and log in. Now, I understand those who weren't around at the time want to see what all the hub bub was about and, that the sentimental old players with their nostalgia want to see this content again. As someone who was present for this content I can't see this content being as popular as some of you overly optimistic people once people really get into it especially if none of the changes we find in current wow aren't there. I can't see people sitting around for 2 hours trying to get a group together for SM that takes like 45 minutes to get to. I have no horse in this race so whatever happens doesn't really bother me. I don't give a shit if you want my opinion or not. It's Friday and I'm bored working so like it or not you are going to see them.

[Ashleyxoxo]

What if Obama had said #NoChange? Where would we be at now?

[The Stormbringer]

Nixxiom put out a video detailing why certain Classic fans might dislike sharding and loot trading. I had never really seen it as an issue, since they said they'd only use sharding for starting zones (did people really form groups back before level 5 for quests?), and the loot trading frees up massive amounts of manpower that they'd have to hire on to be GMs, while letting people who were going to get their upgrades get them right away.

In his words, sharding means that those people aren't going to group since they're separated, so you'll have less socializing and a more 'single player' experience. Loot sharing means that the good people who wait with a ticket to give an item to someone else aren't recognized, and bad people who ninja loot aren't identified and blacklisted by the community.

What do you all think? Are those big enough to be a serious issue?

[Holtzmann]

In his words, sharding means that those people aren't going to group since they're separated, so you'll have less socializing and a more 'single player' experience. Loot sharing means that the good people who wait with a ticket to give an item to someone else aren't recognized, and bad people who ninja loot aren't identified and blacklisted by the community.

What do you all think? Are those big enough to be a serious issue?

On sharding: not a serious issue for two reasons.
1 - the definition of sharding means that if the area you are gets sharded you are in a highly populated area and therefore the shards will also have other people in them. The servers aren't going to create a shard for just one player. So sure, you see fewer people than you would without sharding, but you're still seeing people out and about that you can group with. Just hopefully not so many people that the competition for resources gets too disruptive.

(EDIT: Also, if you're playing with friends you can just group up and never have an issue with sharding at all.)

2 - zone and global chats are cross-shard. If anyone is having an issue that requires a party to solve, they can send a message in General chat and everybody in the zone will see it. Invites are cross-shard, and when partied people join the party leader's shard. Mind, that situation is also unlikely in a starting area early in the release since most threats will just be zerged by the people in your shard who are waiting for the mobs to respawn.

On loot trading: again, not a serious issue. If the intent is to have the community mark out and ostracize the ninja looters, then the community will mark out and ostracize ninja looters regardless of how you resolve those "oops, rolled Need instead of Greed by accident!" moments. There's this scenario being thrown around of a group of four people rolling Need on an item only one of them want and leaving the fifth member of the group getting screwed out of a chance for the item they want, but that's both an edge case, and a situation where the entire pre-made group gets denounced as ninja looters and dealt with accordingly by the community.

[The Stormbringer]

On sharding: not a serious issue for two reasons.
1 - the definition of sharding means that if the area you are gets sharded you are in a highly populated area and therefore the shards will also have other people in them. The servers aren't going to create a shard for just one player. So sure, you see fewer people than you would without sharding, but you're still seeing people out and about that you can group with. Just hopefully not so many people that the competition for resources gets too disruptive.

2 - zone and global chats are cross-shard. If anyone is having an issue that requires a party to solve, they can send a message in General chat and everybody in the zone will see it. Invites are cross-shard, and when partied people join the party leader's shard. Mind, that situation is also unlikely in a starting area early in the release since most threats will just be zerged by the people in your shard who are waiting for the mobs to respawn.

On loot trading: again, not a serious issue. If the intent is to have the community mark out and ostracize the ninja looters, then the community will mark out and ostracize ninja looters regardless of how you resolve those "oops, rolled Need instead of Greed by accident!" moments. There's this scenario being thrown around of a group of four people rolling Need on an item only one of them want and leaving the fifth member of the group getting screwed out of a chance for the item they want, but that's both an edge case, and a situation where the entire pre-made group gets denounced as ninja looters and dealt with accordingly by the community.

I think I agree. To me, Nixxiom and anyone following that line of thinking is over-reacting a little. You're still going to see a lot of people, they just use sharding to prevent things from being impossible to do. If people are standing in a line for an hour to turn in a quest, that's an example of where sharding comes into play. And on loot trading, ninjas will still ninja, they just won't have the excuse of 'Aww sorry accidentally Needed that' to cover them.

[Holtzmann]

I think I agree. To me, Nixxiom and anyone following that line of thinking is over-reacting a little. You're still going to see a lot of people, they just use sharding to prevent things from being impossible to do. If people are standing in a line for an hour to turn in a quest, that's an example of where sharding comes into play. And on loot trading, ninjas will still ninja, they just won't have the excuse of 'Aww sorry accidentally Needed that' to cover them.

Yep. We don't even know what population threshold for sharding the servers are going to have on launch yet. I suspect that's something Blizzard will be tweaking a lot both internally and once they put the game into public testing before launch.

As for ninja looters, with the more modern add-on functionalities that will be available to add-on makers, I would not be surprised if someone came up with one that synchronized lists of people who are accused of being ninja looters. The game systems may be less sophisticated than on retail, but the people writing add-ons have become a lot better since 2006.

[vitor210]

As a frequent visitor to the WowClassic subreddit, and a regular commenter there, I couldn't agree more.

There is a subset of very toxic Private Server players, that clearly are looking for an excuse to avoid paying for an official version of Classic.

They don't want to be subjected to Blizzard's reasonable moderation. They don't want to have to upgrade their system to play the current client. They don't want to pay a sub fee.

They hide behind excuses and other rationale, but that seems to be the core motivation of certain PS players.

r/ClassicWoW isn't all that bad, it's mostly "normies" from BfA trying to enjoy Classic. r/WoWServers on the other hand, those are the worst cesspool of inbred people circlejerking flamewars and server drama everyday; those are the ones that hate anything blizzard do with a fiery pation

[Contego]

As for ninja looters, with the more modern add-on functionalities that will be available to add-on makers, I would not be surprised if someone came up with one that synchronized lists of people who are accused of being ninja looters. The game systems may be less sophisticated than on retail, but the people writing add-ons have become a lot better since 2006.

Not sure if that's such a good idea. An addon wouldn't objectively know whether or not a reported player actually did ninja. Someone could just list others out of spite, and if a certain amount of people is required to make someone listed, then they will bring friends along.

I do recall false accusations in chat being a thing, but that atleast gave the accused a chance to defend themselves publicly. If they are blacklisted through an addon, that will just stick without the chance of an explanation.

[Holtzmann]

Not sure if that's such a good idea. An addon wouldn't objectively know whether or not a reported player actually did ninja. Someone could just list others out of spite, and if a certain amount of people is required to make someone listed, then they will bring friends along.

I do recall false accusations in chat being a thing, but that atleast gave the accused a chance to defend themselves publicly. If they are blacklisted through an addon, that will just stick without the chance of an explanation.

Oh, it's a terrible idea. Like, trying-to-visit-Icecrown-Glacier-at-level-10 levels of bad idea. And I would have known because I did that one shortly after Wrath launched. :P

But it's the kind of stuff that could be done more easily now than it was back in 2006. If not a NinjaScore add-on (since I'm sure Blizzard would catch on really quickly to the add-on abuse), a "report-a-ninja" website. My point is that the tools available to people, and their sophistication, have improved by an order of magnitude in the last 12 years.

[shoegazing]

was right here on the front page in one of the interviews. Youll probably have to go back a few days to find it.

Verified false btw.

You were wrong, I was right.

See all the recent discussion and Blue Posts on the Classic Forum regarding spell batching.

It's still completely unknown whether it will be implemented.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

How was it harder?
In live I can pull 6 to 8 mobs my level and kill them with ease in 20 seconds or less.
In vanilla if I pull 6 to 8 mobs I am dead.
In live I can pull an entire trash pack all at once and it goes down with ease.
In vanilla I better have some cc for that trash pack, a line of sight pull and oh yeah. No aoe dps.
In live I get a built in quest guide that literally tells me where to go and what to do.
In vanilla I have to actually read the quest text. And quests weren't lit up on my mini map.
In live you don't even really have to manage resources anymore.
In vanilla you were using everything you had available including bandages.

So you're actually going to tell me that the fact that on live I don't have to worry about pulling extra mobs and in vanilla I did wasn't harder? You got to be kidding me.
In vanilla you were a nobody learning the ropes. You did less damage, you took more damage, and you had less oh crap buttons.

I didn't say vanilla was harder then anything after. Merely that for 90% of the player base (anyone who raids normal or below and doesn't do mythic + dungeons) it would be harder.

You were more limited though and the game was more mindless. Mobs had unavoidable spells and or buffs that required no input for the player to deal with. Vanilla leveling borderlines on mindless and tedious. Tbc was a lot better at least on hunter or warlock.

[Triceron]

both are a shitshow.. especially if sharding is implemented permanently in every zone

Yeah, but classic itself was a shit show. Does no one remember the lag from having a huge influx of players on the same server??

I had to roll on 3 different servers before settling on one that was playable.

[Kagthul]

Verified false btw.

You were wrong, I was right.

Uh, no. I was 100% correct at the time. That WAS what was stated in the interview. That they have since changed it is irrelevant. You cant come back weeks later after they have changed their minds/issued other statements and try to claim you were right at the time. You weren’t. That simple. I know its hard for your fragile little ego, but hey, your ego is not my problem.

See all the recent discussion and Blue Posts on the Classic Forum regarding spell batching.

It's still completely unknown whether it will be implemented.

Yay, theyve changed their mind since then, i dont care.

The pathological need that some people here have to always be right even when they are 100% wrong is staggering. Get help, seriously. That shit is unhealthy.

[arkanon]

Uh, no. I was 100% correct at the time.

The pathological need that some people here have to always be right even when they are 100% wrong is staggering. Get help, seriously. That shit is unhealthy.

Easily one of my favorite replies ever. How can you not see the amazing irony here?

[klepp0906]

sigh. people here in support of sharding obviously from a generation where immersion is no longer synonymous with mmorpg design. Continuity broken by instancing, further broken by sharding.

In one wow "dimension" i could have ran across uber player x01 and made a lifelong friend since he was in elwynn forest at the same time as me but RIP, nope he's in a different elwynn forest cause...

yea no thanks. Imagine how original wow managed to survive, even on servers and network infrastructure from nearly 2 decades ago.

[barrsftw]

The #nochanges crowd is here. We're quiet because there aren't really any changes confirmed. Even if some trolls would make you believe otherwise.

Yep. OP is clearly trolling. I'd say the purists are pretty happy with everything announced so far. Blizzard seems to be doing everything they can to make as few changes as possible and still deliver the game. They've basically confirmed there aren't really any changes lol...

[Fojos]

How was it harder?
In live I can pull 6 to 8 mobs my level and kill them with ease in 20 seconds or less.
In vanilla if I pull 6 to 8 mobs I am dead.
In live I can pull an entire trash pack all at once and it goes down with ease.
In vanilla I better have some cc for that trash pack, a line of sight pull and oh yeah. No aoe dps.
In live I get a built in quest guide that literally tells me where to go and what to do.
In vanilla I have to actually read the quest text. And quests weren't lit up on my mini map.
In live you don't even really have to manage resources anymore.
In vanilla you were using everything you had available including bandages.

So you're actually going to tell me that the fact that on live I don't have to worry about pulling extra mobs and in vanilla I did wasn't harder? You got to be kidding me.
In vanilla you were a nobody learning the ropes. You did less damage, you took more damage, and you had less oh crap buttons.

I didn't say vanilla was harder then anything after. Merely that for 90% of the player base (anyone who raids normal or below and doesn't do mythic + dungeons) it would be harder.

I'd say it was especially more tedious, everything was slower. Dungeons were definitely harder though. Leveling was just slow. Low damage, long fights. The raiding content back then is not even comparable to mythic today however.

[barrsftw]

My question was pretty clear, i just wondered what happened to all the purists?

They're not shitposting on forums anymore because they're pretty happy in general. There was definite fear that Blizzard would announce big changes... and they didn't. Now they're just waiting to play the game.

[Kithelle]

They're not shitposting on forums anymore because they're pretty happy in general. There was definite fear that Blizzard would announce big changes... and they didn't. Now they're just waiting to play the game.

Plus I imagine they don't want to bother with all the people still crying for changes now, because they didn't want Vanilla...they just wanted their own personal version of WoW.