BlizzCon Q&A Additional Questions

[Ealyssa]

If you get a 370 piece in normal, why bother trying to get it in heroic?

Cause with the same luck you would have gotten a 385 instead of a garbage 370 ?

WTF is your point. If you keep having +15 upgrade droping left and right in NM you would have the same in HC or MM. giving you better loot...

[Sigxy]

"Gear used to be only available from a handful of activities, such as raiding or rated PvP."

Remember when Crafting Professions could make good gear? That was cool.

[Deeth]

I like Titanforging. There, I said it. Got a nice Titanforge from my +10 cache this week. I was genuinely excited for it. Indecently, I have no issues with LFR either. Some people just need something to focus their anger and disappointment on. Those two aspects seem to be the current target.

People dont have a problem with small TF/WF. That isnt the issue at all. Its when an item goes 15+ the intended diffculty range.

[Onikaroshi]

Cause with the same luck you would have gotten a 385 instead of a garbage 370 ?

WTF is your point. If you keep having +15 upgrade droping left and right in NM you would have the same in HC or MM. giving you better loot...

It ruins all sense of gear progression, no one argued with WF back in MoP/WoD, but TF is just down right retarded. If it just stopped at the level of the next difficulty (Lfr only to 355, Normal to 370) they'd kill most of the complaints.

[Lionhearte0]

Oh, look, Blizzard is being fucking stupid again.

[Mazinger-Z]

Why do people rage about titanforging? What's so bad about it? I enjoy having a huge upgrade from time to time. If you feel forced to run stuff endlessly for that tiny chance at an upgrade, then that's your mentality at fault, and not the design's. Something similar happened with the Retribution passive for ret paladins. People COMPLAINED about having to have people die to have an awesome buff. Dude, it's a bonus, quit crying and carry on. This spreadsheet hero mentality where everything has to be squeezed and maxed is not a problem of the design: it is YOUR problem.

/rant off

It gives you an item level that undeservedly implies a level of content completion.

That's why people with an item level of 350 try to get into high-level M+, despite not even doing M0.

[tyrlaan]

Came to read people talking about future villains and such, read heaps of TF bitching.

At least the titanforging tears are pretty delicious, so acceptable consolation prize I guess.

[Lightforged]

I think Titanforging needs to be altered quite a bit.

I propose the following:

There 4 Raid Difficulties. Each raid difficulty rewards gear that is 15 item levels above what the previous tier rewarded (except for LFR, which forms the base power level for raiding gear).

Raid Finder: 340
Normal: 355
Heroic: 370
Mythic: 385

When you are rewarded with an item, the game rolls three dice. Each die can reward nothing (most common result), a minor attribute, a gem slot or +5 item levels. This means if you are lucky, all three dice will come up with +5 item levels, which means your gear will then be the equivalent of gear rewarded from the next difficulty up from where you are (so LFR gear is 340, if you roll three +5's, it becomes a 355 piece of gear, or the equivalent of Normal difficulty gear (Normal would go to Heroic and Heroic to Mythic).

For Mythic difficulty, the +5 item level option will be removed from the die results, that way no matter what happens Mythic item level gear is always the best gear you can get in the game. The gear will still get its three rolls, so it can still be enhanced with minor attributes and/or gem slots. This means that there will always be gear upgrades for you but their impact is less than the system we have currently with +15 item levels on top of mythic gear (which is a system that really frustrates a lot of players).

[Nerovar]

What really grinds my gears about titanforging is how every time they are asked about it, they trot out that old bullshit straw man of the "LFR raider who got one piece of mythic gear" as if that's the main problem that players have with the system. The real problem most players (including myself) have with titanforging is that:

(1) it's the RNG gear treadmill taken to the unhealthy far extreme
(2) it makes knowing the best gear for your character nearly impossible without constant simming
(3) leaves players feeling bad about "upgrades" when they really aren't upgrades at all
(4) destroys the goals -> progression -> accomplishment core loop of an RPG

But of course Ion never talks about these, because he doesn't want to expose the obvious flaws in the system. Instead he pretends it's all about irrational jealousy, so that he can lawyer it away.

There's NOTHING wrong with a character feeling as if they've reached a pinnacle of gearing for the current tier. In fact, this is A GOOD THING because it provides a realistic goal and a sense of accomplishment. If they really wanted to "preserve a sense of possibility to most encounters" then they could just leave it at 5-10 ilvl warforge with a chance at tertiary stats and/or a socket, but the truth is that they WANT players to be stuck on the treadmill for the entire expansion with no hope of finishing it.

Fuck titanforging. It's ruined raiding, it's ruined alts, and it's ruined progression.

I agree with your post. With systems like this in place, it's impossible for me to play the game without getting frustrated.

[Xywei]

I mean, don't these people get it at this point? They don't listen, they think they know what we want and we can't tell them what to do. How about next time submit zero question, with zeron attendees at blizzcon Q&A

[Lightforged]

I mean, don't these people get it at this point? They don't listen, they think they know what we want and we can't tell them what to do. How about next time submit zero question, with zeron attendees at blizzcon Q&A

The fact that you think they don't get it is silly. They know what you are talking about.

The problem is that they have different goals and desires than you do. If this titanforging issue were truly causing people to quit en mass, then it would be changed almost instantly. Since it has stuck around for so long, it is clearly a beneficial to the health of the game (or at least the metrics by which Blizzard measures success). Titanforging benefits two types of players - a) those who are stuck on content and desire to overcome it not by being better but by over-gearing it (whether they consciously realize it or not) and b) those who constantly want the best gear possible and will do anything to get it. The amount of people Titanforging pushes away is clearly smaller than the amount of people who benefit from or desire titanforging.

There are strong arguments to be made as to why Titanforging is affecting the long term health of the game but to say they do not get your concerns is not accurate. They understand them, they just feel Titanforging is a bigger boon than it is a hinderance.

However, you can definitely see Blizzard slowly twisting back in your direction with how they removed Legendaries drops from the game (the ultimate form of titanforging). Perhaps next expansion will see Blizzard reign TFing in even more, who is to say.

[Softbottom]

I find it weird that people who get an item keep running the same shit to get a WF/TF version of the same piece. Once I get full heroic gear I stop doing the raid. Why would you subject yourself to a lottery at a tiny chance of something going up 5-25 ilvls. You are going to replace your pieces with normal items from the next tier raid. It's been this way for a long time now.

[Lightforged]

I find it weird that people who get an item keep running the same shit to get a WF/TF version of the same piece. Once I get full heroic gear I stop doing the raid. Why would you subject yourself to a lottery at a tiny chance of something going up 5-25 ilvls. You are going to replace your pieces with normal items from the next tier raid. It's been this way for a long time now.

Loot is a powerful motivator for a lot of people.

[Softbottom]

Loot is a powerful motivator for a lot of people.

This is true; but for 5 ilvls? like why lol. I guess i'm not OCD about ilvl like some people are.

[ArMeD_SuRvIvOr]

This is true; but for 5 ilvls? like why lol. I guess i'm not OCD about ilvl like some people are.

Some people are overachievers, tryhards, and can't stay quiet for 5 minutes. These are the people who complain about warforge and titanforge.

[Puupi]

This took them 2 weeks to push out? The fuck? If you have nothing to say, say nothing,

They are also so out of touch with their playerbase. That company is a house of cards and the table is shaking quite violently....

[vulena]

the system would just turn into a secondary (and awkward) set of talents

Lol that's exactly what it already is. They are SO blind.

[SirCowdog]

Fuck titanforging. It's ruined raiding, it's ruined alts, and it's ruined progression.

What I want to know is why people still continue to play and sub when they're being treated this way constantly. What does it take to get your people to stop paying Blizzard to fuck you?

[seleri]

Glad to hear WF/TF is here to stay.

[GreenJesus]

I guess RNG gear is here to stay instead of earning badges/points from killing bosses each week and upgrading your gear with steady progression. Thunderforging was fine because it didn't bring normal raid to mythic raid level but still gave a nice little "bonus". Fuck the "o wow.. i randomly got a +20 item level upgrade and negated 2 entire tiers.. what did I do to deserve it? I got lucky.. o ok.. cool I guess?" *15 seconds later feel empty*. Titanforging needs a cap for each tier of difficulty.