Titanforging is here to stay

[chase_the_mofo]

One of the reasons I quit BFA cos everything is god damn RNG in this game now - yeah I played DEATHRNG knight also xD

Indie game

[Alphatorg]

I honestly don't understand why people are still so worked up by titanforging, especially after they restricted/disabled it on Azerite gear and weapons (they kind of forgot trinkets, but most of them are mediocre these days anyway).

The way it's tuned atm it's just a little bonus/incentive when repeating content, but not nearly enough to be the driving force behind doing content.

Then people link Gingi's m+ group, where the "worst" guy raids world 50, who have been running hundreds of +10+ keys this expansion, who might even get loot priority in their guild because they challenge for world first m+, who probably do Arena as well. And guess what: their average ilvl is one higher than the average ilvl of my guild where people currently neither grind ap nor m+.

[deenman]

Personaly i dont have any issue with WF and TF as a system,i feel its good,but the way it scales is the problem,getting a mythic+ ilvl item from lfr is just not the right way to do it,it should have more reasonable caps,like -5 or max out of the next difficulty

[kamuimac]

I honestly don't undestand why people are still so worked up by titanforging, especially after they restricted/disabled it on Azerite gear and weapons (they kind of forgot trinkets, but most of them are mediocre these days anyway).

The way it's tuned these days it's just a little bonus/incentive when repeating content, but not nearly enough to be the driving force behind doing content.

Then people link Gingi's m+ group, where the "worst" guy raids world 50, who have been running hundreds of +10+ keys this expansion, who might even get loot priority in their guild because they challenge for world first m+, who probably do Arena as well. And guess what: their average ilvl is one higher than the average ilvl of my guild where people currently neither grind ap nor m+.

because they are stupid neough to think that the same 20 people on forums whining over and over will make any change

the more of this whiners leave the game better for community overall.

[Sederath]

because they are stupid neough to think that the same 20 people on forums whining over and over will make any change

the more of this whiners leave the game better for community overall.

I guess that explains the staggering increase in quality, following the drop-offs after WotLK and MoP came and went?

Oh, no, wait, the game lost half of its players within half of a year, and sub numbers stopped being announced at the same time, yet people continue to be unhappy, and reviews continue to largely be mixed at best...

Surely, a true mark of pristine gameplay experience, in this day and age.

[HordeFanboy]

Luckily we will get classic servers

Blizzard will add more RNG in next exp for sure
Retail cant be fixed

[clevin]

It's better to be able to earn what you need to make your gear better than run your face into the wall over and over and over again hoping RNG will deign to bless you with its presence.

The point of what they said was that people were running out of chances for that before they'd cleared the content and were faced with continuing to run it just to clear it. Now, we can argue that they could have paced drops better, but that's another thing

[Alphatorg]

It's better to be able to earn what you need to make your gear better than run your face into the wall over and over and over again hoping RNG will deign to bless you with its presence.

Except you don't need WF/TF gear for anything. Regular drops are enough to clear mythic, run high M+ keys, or do Arena and I don't think anyone in their right mind is actually actively farming TF proccs.

[msdos]

There's nothing for you to do with your gear anyway, so what difference does it make? The only way you think you might be stronger is you can now kill a mob that scales to you in 5 seconds instead of 6 seconds, whoopdy freakin' do?
You can go round up more mobs in expeditions? Wow! You can do a little more DPS in your depleted keystone run? Wow!!! You can progress to the next boss in your raid, even though your dps only went up 5-10%? Whoa dooood!!!!!! This is totally ground breaking, never before seen stuff that we for sure haven't been doing the last 6 expansions!!!!

Believe me when I say, gearing up in this game is as inconsequential as it ever has been. If you don't even care about a titanforged piece, that means the game is failing. It wouldn't be acceptable in any other game, other than some mobile game crap.

[Tyze]

Problem is that Blizzard think (and its pretty logically that they do think this way) that if they dont give out the best gear we will continue to chase it in order to be the best.

But the bigger problem is that we players DONT chase after titanforged and get annoyed with it which means they loose costumers.

[MyndZero]

Titanforge gives people a reason to keep playing and redo content. Which equals more played time which equals money to investors and stock brokers. So its definently not going anywhere. Dont matter if it's fair or fun its money and that's what they want.

For me it's the complete opposite. I know I'm not going to get BIS gear, so as soon as I'm done stuff like raids on the difficulty I want, then I have little reason to keep playing the game because BIS does not exist in WoW anymore because it's an unobtainable goal.

[Rafoel]

I honestly don't understand why people are still so worked up by titanforging, especially after they restricted/disabled it on Azerite gear and weapons (they kind of forgot trinkets, but most of them are mediocre these days anyway).

They wanted to get their bis items in 1 month and then unsub until next raid.

They don't even like the game anymore, just feel the need to "complete" every content patch (addiction?), now they can't "complete" it due to titanforging, so they whine.

They keep saying they unsubbed because of it - but in fact they always unsubbed after 1 month, them being unsubbed now (if they are even telling the truth) is no loss for Blizzard. Meanwhile Blizzard gains from players that keep playing in hopes of getting titanforged upgrades, who without them would already have bis items and quit.

- - - Updated - - -

Problem is that Blizzard think (and its pretty logically that they do think this way) that if they dont give out the best gear we will continue to chase it in order to be the best.

But the bigger problem is that we players DONT chase after titanforged and get annoyed with it which means they loose costumers.

You don't know shit what playerbase does. Only a fraction even visits forums. Blizzard has actual global data about players behaviour.

[Fkiolaris]

For me it's the complete opposite. I know I'm not going to get BIS gear, so as soon as I'm done stuff like raids on the difficulty I want, then I have little reason to keep playing the game because BIS does not exist in WoW anymore because it's an unobtainable goal.

This. Put that in conjunction to the (imo) worst class design the game has ever had and that's two of the main reasons I dropped the game completely. I understand it's difficult for some people to grasp, but some of us play(ed) the game and liked to have specific targets to obtain, even at a casual level. Instead of having the TF bollocks, the badge system for fixed gear they had up to MoP (and WoD for PvP) was a much better basis to build/expand upon.

[Alphatorg]

They wanted to get their bis items in 1 month and then unsub until next raid.

They don't even like the game anymore, just feel the need to "complete" every content patch (addiction?), now they can't "complete" it due to titanforging, so they whine.

They keep saying they unsubbed because of it - but in fact they always unsubbed after 1 month, them being unsubbed now (if they are even telling the truth) is no loss for Blizzard. Meanwhile Blizzard gains from players that keep playing in hopes of getting titanforged upgrades, who without them would already have bis items and quit.

My thoughts exactly.

This. Put that in conjunction to the (imo) worst class design the game has ever had and that's two of the main reasons I dropped the game completely. I understand it's difficult for some people to grasp, but some of us play(ed) the game and liked to have specific targets to obtain, even at a casual level. Instead of having the TF bollocks, the badge system for fixed gear they had up to MoP (and WoD for PvP) was a much better basis to build/expand upon.

What's stopping you now from getting your bis gear and unsubbing and why would Blizzard care about your issues if you would unsub quickly either way?

[Kumorii]

gamble usually has sh8t chance of reward but require no effort, gear isn't gambling
but still TF chance to get is roughly 0.001%, u can't plan it, and if it drops it will make u want to smash ur pc, u can try run the mythic raid for months without ever see that chest u need TF to be BiS, so it make u unable to be satisfied to log on alt afraid of lose the 0.01% risk of get BiS on main, and if u stay on main u'll get bored as f8ck extremely fast
TF f8cked the game longevity, but blizz pride - as usual - stop them from doing the right thing, the game had far more players prior to LFG yet they still insist on keeping it, why ? if that is how casual players 'stay to play', why the sub numbers literally say the exact opposite ?

If you've read my other posts, you'll see I don't like TF in it's current state. I'm not defending TF. I'm pointing out the inaccuracy in calling it gambling because that as an argument isn't a strong one. It shares the same "gambling" mechanics as many other praised systems.
How did the TF ruin the games longevity?

Also, the LFG making people leave the game is a correlation, not necessarily a causation. It could be caused by that, we don't know though. There are hundreds of factors and changes that might cause people to leave, boiling it down to one thing is something I can't agree with.

[Alphatorg]

gamble usually has sh8t chance of reward but require no effort, gear isn't gambling
but still TF chance to get is roughly 0.001%, u can't plan it, and if it drops it will make u want to smash ur pc, u can try run the mythic raid for months without ever see that chest u need TF to be BiS, so it make u unable to be satisfied to log on alt afraid of lose the 0.01% risk of get BiS on main, and if u stay on main u'll get bored as f8ck extremely fast
TF f8cked the game longevity, but blizz pride - as usual - stop them from doing the right thing, the game had far more players prior to LFG yet they still insist on keeping it, why ? if that is how casual players 'stay to play', why the sub numbers literally say the exact opposite ?

Ok, now I get why morons have a problem with TF. But the question is should Blizzard design the game around stupidity? Maybe this could be solved with a couple of loading screen hints?

[Nathasil]

I especially loved the sentence "[we think the tuning of WF/TF is better in BFA than Legion because...] We used to see players who felt obligated to run content they’d outgeared just for a chance at lucky upgrades, and we now see far less of this behavior."

Yeah, sure.

It certainly has nothing to do with this expansion lacking legendaries, Tier-Sets and any and all kind of gear that could even remotely feel rewarding or desireable. It has to be the better WF/TF tuning. I am sure of it.

Like 100% sure.

So sure.

Sure.

[AlmightyGerkin]

I especially loved the sentence "[we think the tuning of WF/TF is better in BFA than Legion because...] We used to see players who felt obligated to run content they’d outgeared just for a chance at lucky upgrades, and we now see far less of this behavior."

Yeah, sure.

It certainly has nothing to do with this expansion lacking legendaries, Tier-Sets and any and all kind of gear that could even remotely feel rewarding or desireable. It has to be the better WF/TF tuning. I am sure of it.

Like 100% sure.

So sure.

Sure.

WF/TF tuning was utter lie by Blizzard from the start. They butchered the legendary system in Legion to where it didn't feel like a legendary you worked for like other ones. Tier set removal was cause they put their best developers into mobile gaming.

[laughtrey]

Just remove it from trinkets and it'll be good. The trinket procs are too crazy, all of the raid trinkets are bottom of the barrel compared to a 385 m+ trinket or some WF world quest.

[Aigilas]

titanforging is one of the worst things to happen to the game