The Alliance is its own worst enemy

[MikeBogina]

No, it's not. Jaina could have flooded entire Ogrimmar back in Cataclysm if she wasn't talked out of it.

I wonder what good that would do since the Horde's army wasn't there and ORRRRRRgrimmar is built on top of a cavern system(you'd flood the basement at best). Would also guarantee the Horde's victory since there definitely wouldn't be a rebellion after that.

Varian could have dismantled the Horde back in MoP.

Not one Alliance member would have made it out of that city alive if he tried.

Alliance was supposedly the only superpower on Azeroth during WoD

Because one of the Horde's cities got raided?

but I guess that's the point where Orcs somehow mass cloned themselves so that advantage is long gone.

No it's called "My faction isn't just one race", where yours should be changed to "Human&Pals", but I do agree that they changed it so that only a fraction of the Orcs sided with Garrosh(which then means Garrosh with only a few orcs would have stomped you)

Malfurion didn't do shit until BFA, after his race nearly got completely wiped out.

He was working with the Cenarion Circle to help heal the damage of Hyjal... doing a good job avoiding axes being thrown at him for a long time

Vindicaar is conveniently absent so it doesn't get used against the Horde.

I said this in another reply, but "Oculeth" also the Nightwell "conveniently" is turned off and doesn't get used against the Alliance.

Every single time, the Alliance pull their punches, while Horde eventually bites back.

Everytime the Alliance pulls some shit and the Horde bites back you mean?

You could see this back in MoP with Horde players laughing at Varian's threat and Alliance ones shaking their heads

So you acknowledge that it was a hollow threat? I'm actually confused at what you mean here though.

Both sides knew nothing would come from it, not only because MMO cannot wipe one faction, but also because Alliance wouldn't press this advantage and demand reparations of any sort.

And just like both sides knew the Horde wouldn't win and that Blizzard the writers who started it in the first place, wouldn't allow the Horde to wipe out the Alliance. You seem to put more blame on the Horde players for the story than you do the writers, that's not healthy to be honest... when you're literally pointing at the other players saying "They know they're getting away with it!!" when literally we're just following along with the story like you are.

And that was Varian, who was a bloodthirsty warmonger when compared to his son.

I didn't read Wolfheart, but I'm told that it has Varian calm his temper or some shit. Also no way was Varian a warmonger at this point, he berated Jaina for being a complete retard during the Purge of Dalaran and was telling Tyrande to "hush" when she wanted to rush into battle. There wouldn't even be a war right now if Varian was alive.

[Zandalariprelate]

If anything, it should actually be pinned on Vereesa for changing her mind with the plan at the last minute and merely placing the decision in Anduin's hands. If she had not changed her mind, she would not have warned him, and then Anduin would not have known, and Garrosh would have died. In fact, Sylvanas makes this very point in the Three Sister's comic, so one would imagine that this is a rationale that Blizzard feel could be legimitely argued among the playerbase, otherwise they would not have put it in. But still, this is slightly OT and splitting hairs.

Both were idiots and have the same responsability but then again those 4 idiot gods wanted to teach a lesson or something like that(no wonder why Lei-Shen ruled unopposed) so probably they will have rezzed Garrosh like they did with Jaina but like I said we got Yrel the most interesting draenei character so, meh don't care but I hope someone will tell this bullshit to Anduin(maybe when Yrel appears again)

[Mehrunes]

Don't bother, Mehrunes head thickness is without equal in this forum.

Do you actually have anything of note to add instead of throwing insults around because you can never back your arguments with sources and as such are forced to watch them get dismantled and as such you don't want to do that anymore? How about you address my reply to @Octavius for them? Particularly the part where I replied to the notion of Sylvanas supposedly not being powerful as an individual with a plethora of examples as to why that's not the case? Humor me.

Both were idiots and have the same responsability but then again those 4 idiot gods wanted to teach a lesson or something like that(no wonder why Lei-Shen ruled unopposed) so probably they will have rezzed Garrosh like they did with Jaina but like I said we got Yrel the most interesting draenei character so, meh don't care but I hope someone will tell this bullshit to Anduin(maybe when Yrel appears again)

Heh, didn't ever think about the trial from that perspective. It kinda makes sense when you put it that way. Probably they saw the entire enslavement by the Mogu as a lesson in itself.

[MikeBogina]

If anything, it should actually be pinned on Vereesa for changing her mind with the plan at the last minute and merely placing the decision in Anduin's hands. If she had not changed her mind, she would not have warned him, and then Anduin would not have known, and Garrosh would have died. In fact, Sylvanas makes this very point in the Three Sister's comic, so one would imagine that this is a rationale that Blizzard feel could be legimitely argued among the playerbase, otherwise they would not have put it in. But still, this is slightly OT and splitting hairs.

She failed to prevent WoD, but her actions aren't the cause, only the lack of preventing.

Who caused WoD? It's not Garrosh, he is a straightforward character who doesn't scheme and was ready to die. The causation of WoD was the interference of Wrathion and Kairoz who not only took him from the court, but also took him to AU Draenor and started him on the path to create the IronHorde. Without them, Garrosh would still be on Azeroth awaiting whatever was his fate(60hrs community service at max) and probably being sexually harassed by Anduin, the prison predator(seriously, he tries to seduce male orcs in cells all the time, just ask Saurfang)

[Beerbill Society]

Was that Superman being too powerful, so they have to find ways to put him in situations where he couldn't use all his powers? If so, I've seen Knaak and other writers have this recurring problem where their powerful dragons are restricted to mortal forms, or else problems would be solved quicker.

Yeah exactly, usually they use that cheap method of making the character looking weaker than it really is or dumbing down it's actions, or even setting a moral code to restrict it's power. The latter at least is not so bad if used correctly, but it all could be solved if they didn't made it overpowered in the first place.

[Darktbs]

Do you actually have anything of note to add instead of throwing insults around because you can never back your arguments with sources and as such are forced to watch them get dismantled and as such you don't want to do that anymore? How about you address my reply to @Octavius for them? Particularly the part where I replied to the notion of Sylvanas supposedly not being powerful as an individual with a plethora of examples as to why that's not the case? Humor me.

Because your argument is so childlike that is laughable to read, "she can do this, she can do that she can do this, therefore she is invincible", disregarding that other characters will act or have strenghs that will counter what Sylvanas can do.Just by lowering to your level, Tyrande was in the ROom, the chosen of Elune, the one godness that will let the entire elven race die but will not let anyone harm her precious Tyrande, Sylvanas can't silence a God.In the novels, Tyrande states "I can strike him down with a thought. And yet he meets my eyes and does not plead for mercy.".Mekkatorque brought a bunch of machines capable of freezing and pulverizing multiples foes, disregading also that Jaina can simply freeze Sylvanas in place before she can do anything.

Now, your stupid way of thinking aside.The cinematics prove that she can kill people with her voice and passing through them, but other said cinematics show that this is not the case to everyone, since you know, no one of the alliance leaders died to her screaming in the throne room.

Also,

He didn't even wound her despite a direct hit with his claws to her face.

This shows you don't know how the cinematics work, they will not animate or remodel to show fight marks unless its plot relevant, thats why Genn has the poison around his chest and Vol'jin is wound.That punch/scratch probably damaged her alot, even in the War Crimes, Baine is able to simply snap her arm, why would she be immune to scratches to the face?Because the Cinematic didn't show?Well, guess Varian doesn't bleed from the Felguards spears, or Thrall was just lazy since he was fine on the broken shore's Ground and didn't have a scratch.

Ignoring as well the abilities of other characters, the fact that Mekkatorque had pulverizing and freezing mechanism in the SoO?That Varian was one of the best if not the best warrior well prepared in that room?That again, Tyrande is a God-chosen?Or you know the fact that this kind of fight happened before in Undercity(with less people even) and Jaina managed to Freeze EVERYONE without issue.

Your attempt to place Sylvanas was so pathetic and cringeworthy.

Also, funny enough, you laughed at Stormwind for years ago almost losing to a Gnoll army...yet..Garrosh Hellscream, almost died to Quilboars, and had to be save BY BAINE OF ALL PEOPLE.Said Tauren that the first apperance had them near extint by the Centaur.

I don't know if you are blind or just cherry picking but these races(minus Murlocs i believe) are threads to their respective enemies, you are conflicting the fact that we deal with them a low levels, they are no issue.Thats dumb.

But congrats, your dear Sylvanas can kill a wolf with her bare hands.lmao.

Infracted.

[Zandalariprelate]

She failed to prevent WoD, but her actions aren't the cause, only the lack of preventing.

Who caused WoD? It's not Garrosh, he is a straightforward character who doesn't scheme and was ready to die. The causation of WoD was the interference of Wrathion and Kairoz who not only took him from the court, but also took him to AU Draenor and started him on the path to create the IronHorde. Without them, Garrosh would still be on Azeroth awaiting whatever was his fate(60hrs community service at max) and probably being sexually harassed by Anduin, the prison predator(seriously, he tries to seduce male orcs in cells all the time, just ask Saurfang)

I loled on that, heck I think it's some fetish from Golden, Anduin seem to harass older people than him in jail, just lookt at Zul, Garrosh, Hogger and now Saurfang

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D5HrororzY

holy flying teddy bears and deep ocean diving racoons.

Halford "great attack much success
Shaw "we should have victory within a few weeks"
Genn "horde has never been like this since barely two expansions ago! we should play whack a warchief again and be done with this!"

Anduin "Yes but at what cost?! Surely this sucks, its not like we spent multiple weeks planning this out all across Voldun, Nazmir and Zuldazar....oh we did?"
Jaina "if we attack them while they mourn the king WE KILLED, and PLANNED for, we will be like my arch nemesis Lady Waifu!"


I mean i get it. the story must go on. neither faction will win. Sure, gotcha, understood.

But really why does mental retardation have to be inflicted upon some characters to make this float. it could have been a wonderful story, and yea sure there are loop holes. But this is like applying a turd to the side of a freshly waxed car, because eventually it will get dirty.

heck even saying. yea great success but it was a grand effort and we are spread thin. We need to keep pushing the upper hand. AND LEAVE IT AT THAT.



oh and almost forgot.
"Auntie"

I mean Anduin is not wrong by fearing Rasthakhan's death will further push the Zandalari into the Horde.

But like it's also very naive to think an attack on Dazar'Alor on the first place wouldn't do the same. If they actually planned their attack as "see, this is what happens when you join the Horde" thing, they could have leaned on it, instead they just went for it knowing very well how it could end.

And that's where Anduin kinda fails as a leader, like he understands the consequences, but still goes along with things and then just says "oh bother this sucks" Butthat is less bad writing and more just Anduin being Anduin.

If anyone makes sense here, is Jaina. If the alliance can actually make a show of good faith that proves to the Zandalari that allying with the Horde is the mistake, that's good, and Halford notices that, saying they should strike at Sylvanas, because SHE is the issue here.

Like I agree with Jaina, attacking the Zandalari would just cause more unnecessary losses, and there is still a chance to prevent them to fully throwing their lot with the Horde, and instead they should focus their efforts on bringing Sylvanas down.

[Destinas]

This is why a faction conflict doesn't work as one of the driving narratives of an expansion. As much as I hate to admit it (because I hated this character), Taran Zhu had a point about the Alliance and Horde back in MoP.

Taran Zhu yells: I see now why your Alliance and Horde cannot stop fighting.
Taran Zhu yells: Every reprisal is itself an act of aggression, and every act of aggression triggers immediate reprisal.

Yes, it is "World of Warcraft" but not all the leaders are willing to go to war (Baine) or have a reason to dedicate themselves to this war (Thalyssra, Mayla, Turalyon). Other characters have little reason for their actions now (Liadrin, Rexxar, Delaryn, Sira, Voss), while other characters are only restating older hatreds that were driving points for faction stories in previous expansions/battlegrounds (Sylvanas, Nathanos, Jaina, Genn) - whether or not they're justified.

Of course, no one faction can "win" in the end without pissing off a ton of people. The lesson learned every single expansion - which was hammered into us in MoP - is that the Alliance and Horde need to work together to beat the bigger bad guys. This was reiterated within the last week by Alex Afrasiabi in an interview.

Since Afrasiabi brought up the Saurfang vs. Sylvanas option, Mitch pressed him about the idea of splitting the Horde into separate factions for each camp. While the idea would be “thematically cool and appropriate for this scenario,” Afrasiabi explained that creating a third faction would really mean splitting up friendships and guilds since factions cannot adventure together. His preference would be the other way: that the Alliance and Horde could group together “one of these days.”

“That is the bigger meta lesson of Azeroth,” he concluded, “that these battles that we fought, even when we are separated, are for the same damn purpose. For our home.”

Kind of hard to squish a faction war in the middle of a bigger threat and do it justice. In the end, a bunch of characters act out of character, make odd decisions, and just piss off the fanbase.

[CasualFilth]

Poor Alliance writing? What's next? Clouds in the sky?

[Mehrunes]

Because your argument is so childlike that is laughable to read, "she can do this, she can do that she can do this, therefore she is invincible"

Right. Except I haven't said a word about her being invincible. So not only did you open your post with a weak straw-man, but you're making your remarks about how my argument is "childlike" and "laughable" extremely ironic. The best part is that you don't even see that irony.

disregarding that other characters will act or have strenghs that will counter what Sylvanas can do.

How do you counter voice that silences spell casting and breaks armor and bones? Do enlighten me. Because that's the thing, I haven't disregarded anything, it's just that there are no sources on Sylvanas' voice being counter-able. I'm sure you'll pull something out of your behind, but me disregarding your fanfiction-to-be is just the default state of things in an argument about actual lore and no one can really hold that against me.

Just by lowering to your level, Tyrande was in the ROom, the chosen of Elune, the one godness that will let the entire elven race die but will not let anyone harm her precious Tyrande, Sylvanas can't silence a God. In the novels, Tyrande states "I can strike him down with a thought. And yet he meets my eyes and does not plead for mercy.".

Wait, which "always protected by Elune" Tyrande do you mean? The "always protected by Elune" Tyrande that almost died after falling into a river? The "always protected by Elune" Tyrande that was almost overrun by the Scourge afterwards and had to be saved by Kerrilldank and Malfurion? Or the "always protected by Elune" Tyrande that was shot down by unnamed Orc archers? Great "not letting anyone harm her precious Tyrande" you got here mate. I rate your argument 5/7.

Never mind that Tyrande never really had any significant offensive achievements, making her bragging just that. Even Elune doesn't smite people that often.

Mekkatorque brought a bunch of machines capable of freezing and pulverizing multiples foes

Do show those machines in Garrosh's throne room. Ooooh, right... You can't. Because they were left in Kor'kron barracks. So what's your argument here? That Mekkatorque has a teleportation beacon in his ass and as such it doesn't matter where those machines actually are?

disregading also that Jaina can simply freeze Sylvanas in place before she can do anything.

Except casting takes more time time Sylvanas opening her mouth. Or turning incorporeal, which she can do at will as per blue post.

Now, your stupid way of thinking aside.The cinematics prove that she can kill people with her voice and passing through them, but other said cinematics show that this is not the case to everyone, since you know, no one of the alliance leaders died to her screaming in the throne room.

Blizzard being inconsistent isn't an argument. In Before the Storm, so extremely recently from the perspective of the Battle for Lordaeron, Anduin (you know, one of the people you're using as an argument right now) admitted to himself that Sylvanas could kill him with his voice if she wanted to. And she didn't fly through anyone in that final confrontation at Lordaeron so I'm not sure where you're seeing an example of Sylvanas flying through people and them surviving that.

Also,

This shows you don't know how the cinematics work, they will not animate or remodel to show fight marks unless its plot relevant, thats why Genn has the poison around his chest and Vol'jin is wound.That punch/scratch probably damaged her alot, even in the War Crimes, Baine is able to simply snap her arm, why would she be immune to scratches to the face?Because the Cinematic didn't show?Well, guess Varian doesn't bleed from the Felguards spears, or Thrall was just lazy since he was fine on the broken shore's Ground and didn't have a scratch.

How magically convenient to you that this detail wasn't plot relevant, but Genn getting poisoned, which got resolved in 10 seconds after the cinematic was. Never mind that if Genn actually wounded her, she'd have gigantic lacerations across her face because Genn has sharp and long fangs and Forsaken don't exactly heal. Because, you know, they are undead.

But OK, let's say she was wounded and Blizzard didn't portray that because it is convenient for your argument "was not plot relevant". Why didn't they update her model in BfA to reflect that when she's playing the spotlight role on Horde side?

But hey, I'm feeling generous, so let's say they were too lazy to do that too. But how do you explain that written sources are utterly silent about that? When Sylvanas sold the war to Saurfang by mentioning Stormheim, he only reminisced about the attack on the Horde army, not about how Genn maimed his Warchief. At no other point when Sylvanas interacted with other people or was described for other reasons did the narration say a word about her having her face covered in awkward Forsaken-style stitches. Could it be because there were no wounds? /s

And your examples on the cinematic thing are just atrocious and in case of Thrall show you don't know WTF you are talking about. Yes, Varian doesn't bleed profusely. Because that's kinda what happens when you are pierced with a sharp object and that object is still lodged in you. You know, kinda the point why removing arrows was a rather dangerous thing to do and people often only broke them immediately after getting shot to get them removed in safer circumstances. And he was wearing a metric ton of armor which not only covered the wounds, but would press on them. Also, never mind that this game doesn't really do blood all that much for rating reasons.

And Thrall was laying on the ground because of what happened on the Horde side immediately before the cinematic started. You know, the spaceships warping in and shooting at the Horde's position? Had Thrall been hit by the space laser, we would have been picking his body parts as toys on Broken Shore in 7.2. But since he was alive, he obviously survived the lasers and was only knocked down by the impact.

As for Baine, you'd have argument if we actually saw Baine snapping Sylvanas' arm. But without it, it's simply a description of him being particularly strong. We did actually see Sylvanas falling specifically on Saronite because she would have survived the fall otherwise. That you want to give more credibility to a mere description with nothing coming out of it over an event that actually happened is your prerogative. But that argument has the same value as argument where people bring up Sylvanas saying she won't take orders from a Troll at the end of SoO and calling Sylvanas a traitor over that even though no one ever saw her actually disobey Vol'jin's orders. I.e. no value at all.

Ignoring as well the abilities of other characters, the fact that Mekkatorque had pulverizing and freezing mechanism in the SoO?That Varian was one of the best if not the best warrior well prepared in that room?That again, Tyrande is a God-chosen?

Mekkatorque still didn't take those mechanism with him in the throne room and Tyrande still has no real offensive feats and had not been protected by Elune on multiple occasions so you can bring it up even a million times and it still won't magically transform into an actual argument. And Varian can't exactly fight with broken bones. Or with Thrall earth-hand-grabbing him like he did Garrosh in AU Nagrand.

Or you know the fact that this kind of fight happened before in Undercity(with less people even) and Jaina managed to Freeze EVERYONE without issue.

You mean when Jaina was standing on the sidelines blabbering about peace and getting ignored by everyone else, giving her all the time she needed to cast her spell and all the opportunity to take everyone by surprise? Top notch comparison to a potential fight in which she'd be treated as target #1 from the start. Top notch.

Your attempt to place Sylvanas was so pathetic and cringeworthy.

Meanwhile your post started with a strawman and you somehow still managed to go only downhill from there. So your remark about cringeworthy arguments is nothing more than, what, third or so case of you throwing dynamite in glasshouses within a single post.

Also, funny enough, you laughed at Stormwind for years ago almost losing to a Gnoll army...yet..Garrosh Hellscream, almost died to Quilboars, and had to be save BY BAINE OF ALL PEOPLE.Said Tauren that the first apperance had them near extint by the Centaur.

Ah, yes, the brilliant "but Garrosh almost died to Quillboars!!1!" "counterargument". Totally haven't seen that before. You do realize Garrosh almost died to Quillboars after taking a small force right into their den? How on earth is that supposed to be a valid comparison to a prospering nation that had 3000 years of peaceful development almost falling to semi-organized rabble of a race that can barely construct mud huts? Meanwhile when it comes to Horde vs. Quillboar conflict on a nation level, the Horde demolished the Quillboar and consistently pushed them further and further back from their previous holdings. Orgimmar was never almost destroyed by a Quillboar army and only survived because the Quillboar leader died.

Oh, right, it isn't a valid comparison at all. You're comparing apples to oranges.

And your remark about Centaurs and the Tauren is yet another case of you "accidentally" () ignoring the specifics of what happened. Cairne's tribe was almost destroyed by the Centaurs. Not Taurens as a race. Yet another top notch comparison you got there, a single Tauren tribe to the entire Stormwind nation. This comparison is just splendid /s

I don't know if you are blind or just cherry picking but these races(minus Murlocs i believe) are threads to their respective enemies, you are conflicting the fact that we deal with them a low levels, they are no issue.Thats dumb.

They are local threats that threaten individual outposts, not entire nations.

But congrats, your dear Sylvanas can kill a wolf with her bare hands.lmao.

Wow, what a gotcha /s Never mind that means she can rip your super-duper warrior Varian apart with her bare hands. Or simply kill him with one punch. Lmao indeed.


But I realize I made one mistake. When I asked you to address my points, the idea that I wanted you to do so with actual counterarguments was only an implication. So you merrily ignored it. I should have made that explicit. Because instead of counterarguments I got a spectacle where you threw random tidbits of information at a wall (while ignoring inconvenient details like how Mekkatorque didn't bring his vehicle to the throne room), hoping something sticks. And even though everything immediately started to fall off that wall, you just shrugged your shoulders and clicked post anyway.

[Deleted]

I think people tends to forget that Zandalari destroyed the Alliance ships because Alliance imprisoned their princess for no reasons and sent battleships to sink her boat. And Alliance entered the Zandalari waters with unfriendly intentions.

Reminds me of the Alliance ship that destroyed a goblin boat full of civilians fleeing Kezan...

For no reason?
She was traveling with Zul; who woke up and allied himself with Lei Shen (the thunder king).
If that isn't reason enough , then i don't know what is.

[rogueMatthias]

Goody two shoes Alliance is so boring, but it doesn't have to be.

You don't have to be "morally grey" to overreach in the pursuit of power.

Personally I think it'd be cool if BfA ends with the Alliance "winning"
but with the Barrens fragmented, Netherstorm style, and Orgrimar being pulled into the void courtesy of Umbric and the VE losing control,
while gigantic lava elementals run amok destroying everything, as the DiD summoned too many far more powerful then they can handle,

and Anduin looking over everything going "OOOOhhhh FUCK. what have I done?"

[KaPe]

Goody two shoes Alliance is so boring, but it doesn't have to be.

You don't have to be "morally grey" to overreach in the pursuit of power.

Personally I think it'd be cool if BfA ends with the Alliance "winning"
but with the Barrens fragmented, Netherstorm style, and Orgrimar being pulled into the void courtesy of Umbric and the VE losing control,
while gigantic lava elementals run amok destroying everything, as the DiD summoned too many far more powerful then they can handle,

and Anduin looking over everything going "OOOOhhhh FUCK. what have I done?"

I'd like to see that happen, if only for Horde players reaction. I still remember the howling over Camp Taurajo, where some shitty village - one that the Alliance commander went out of his way to spare - was used as an excuse to justify any retaliation. Horde did something "bad"? "But Camp Taurajo!!!"

But this? Nagas would drown in the sea of tears that would follow.

Still, ignoring the trollish aspect - I support anything that would show that the Alliance can actually be pushed too far and strike back without mercy. There's a reason people were laughing at Varian's threat back during SoO. Even if it wasn't an MMO, the Horde keeps getting away with everything and only really suffer from fighting among themselves.

[Verdugo]

I'd like to see that happen, if only for Horde players reaction. I still remember the howling over Camp Taurajo, where some shitty village - one that the Alliance commander went out of his way to spare - was used as an excuse to justify any retaliation. Horde did something "bad"? "But Camp Taurajo!!!"

But this? Nagas would drown in the sea of tears that would follow.

Still, ignoring the trollish aspect - I support anything that would show that the Alliance can actually be pushed too far and strike back without mercy. There's a reason people were laughing at Varian's threat back during SoO. Even if it wasn't an MMO, the Horde keeps getting away with everything and only really suffer from fighting among themselves.

I am ok with that. Eastern Kalimdor sucks.

[Super Dickmann]

I'd like to see that happen, if only for Horde players reaction. I still remember the howling over Camp Taurajo, where some shitty village - one that the Alliance commander went out of his way to spare - was used as an excuse to justify any retaliation. Horde did something "bad"? "But Camp Taurajo!!!"

But this? Nagas would drown in the sea of tears that would follow.

Still, ignoring the trollish aspect - I support anything that would show that the Alliance can actually be pushed too far and strike back without mercy. There's a reason people were laughing at Varian's threat back during SoO. Even if it wasn't an MMO, the Horde keeps getting away with everything and only really suffer from fighting among themselves.

I'm actually all for this. The Alliance needs to be an existential threat to the Horde, not just the other way around.

[Melius]

nope. blizzard is the alliances worst enemy with its shitty writing. but then again after playing the horde side too in bfa i would have to say that the story for both factions is poorly done. call me crazy but i enjoyed WoD story with its AU stuff better than this mess we are in now. here's hoping it will get somewhat better but from the spoilers already known by folks from the upcoming patch....i doubt it.

[Zandalariprelate]

nope. blizzard is the alliances worst enemy with its shitty writing. but then again after playing the horde side too in bfa i would have to say that the story for both factions is poorly done. call me crazy but i enjoyed WoD story with its AU stuff better than this mess we are in now. here's hoping it will get somewhat better but from the spoilers already known by folks from the upcoming patch....i doubt it.

That is the point, they want to trigger everyone with it and yes WoD storyline is by miles better than BFA(it will be much more loved if blizzard didn't cut the shatran raid and faralon)

[Stormdash]

An easier way to make the Alliance justify caution would be for Jaina to have been, y'know, so much as scratched in a fight against the Horde Player Character(s), instead of Mekkatorque (whom few people care much about and from whom NOBODY expects significant plot contribution) being their worst quasi-casualty. I get they might want this to be Jaina's pendulum swing in character but it doesn't actually make much sense in context. Her being unavailable to provide god-mode would.