Would you like to see schools change?

[Deleted]

My High School was perfect for me

[d00mGuArD]

How are we measuring this spending? Dollar amount spent? Maybe we do spend more because we have more money to spend but what if we look at % of GDP? Can I ascertain what a country values based on how large of a percentage of the GDP is spent in that area?

I think the measurement is amount spent per student

There is definitely big room for education to improve. For example there are many technologies that could be implemented.
I would love to see Augmented reality inside classrooms! It would be grand!

I don't have much faith in the most of the current governments to do it without fucking everything up though

[luc54]

The safe space is down the corridor on the left, in the third door.

The only safe space that is being created is the ignorant anti vaccers, flat earthers and climate change deniers. And you belong in that category.

[qwerty123456]

1.You can't force kids to learn. So there will always be someone that doesn't want to do a certain subject. You could require kids to only take stuff they enjoy but then they would have a hard time in the real world. They could be amazing jewelry makers but if they can't price their stuff so they make a profit they are gonna be screwed.

And thats not even mentioning the kids that hate a subject and then later on enjoy it and do something related to it later on in life.

2.You also have the kids that act out. Some have shitty home lives while others just want to be the center of attention and stuff. Do you attempt to take even more kids with less than ideal homes from their families? Do you drug the kid who needs to be the center of attention or isolate them or what?

3. Teachers gotta deal with parents. Some parents are assholes, others think their kid can do no wrong, etc... and none of those parents are going to agree to anything that "harms" their children/image of their children.

Pretty sure you still get expelled for hitting a teacher, but most teenage boys are going to react in the heat of the moment. I remember seeing two athletes going at it at school, it took four security guards to break it up and one of the kids ran off of school grounds shirtless and had to be caught. They can be savages and threatening them with violence doesn't seem like an even remotely good answer.

I had a guy a few years before me hit a principal with a chair. If he got expelled it was only for maybe a week or two. We never even had security so the staff had to deal with stuff like that themselves.

And sometimes you gotta fight primal urges with primal urges. And fear is a great urge to snap someone out of a rampage or whatever. If you have ever been extremely horny you will understand that no talking or reasoning will abate it but sex or masturbation will. Not saying all situations require a more primal response but sometimes it can be the only effective thing.

[Jonnusthegreat]

There is absolutely no way that the US spends 20x more on the military than education. Your claim is so crazy that I’m not going to bother researching to prove you wrong. Check your source friend.

My mistake, 10x. I'll edit it.

[Realitytrembles]

@Tonus : On math, anything more than the basics (add/subtract/multiply/divide) is just too much effort. I didn't like it, didn't want to do it, so I skated by with the bare minimum. I did great in History/English/Geography/etc, because it's not a bunch of arcane crap with crazy rules. Thus requiring more mental effort, thus meaning I said "f no."

[Deleted]

1.You can't force kids to learn. So there will always be someone that doesn't want to do a certain subject. You could require kids to only take stuff they enjoy but then they would have a hard time in the real world. They could be amazing jewelry makers but if they can't price their stuff so they make a profit they are gonna be screwed.

And thats not even mentioning the kids that hate a subject and then later on enjoy it and do something related to it later on in life.

2.You also have the kids that act out. Some have shitty home lives while others just want to be the center of attention and stuff. Do you attempt to take even more kids with less than ideal homes from their families? Do you drug the kid who needs to be the center of attention or isolate them or what?

3. Teachers gotta deal with parents. Some parents are assholes, others think their kid can do no wrong, etc... and none of those parents are going to agree to anything that "harms" their children/image of their children.




I had a guy a few years before me hit a principal with a chair. If he got expelled it was only for maybe a week or two. We never even had security so the staff had to deal with stuff like that themselves.

And sometimes you gotta fight primal urges with primal urges. And fear is a great urge to snap someone out of a rampage or whatever. If you have ever been extremely horny you will understand that no talking or reasoning will abate it but sex or masturbation will. Not saying all situations require a more primal response but sometimes it can be the only effective thing.

I thought the purpose of expelling students was that it was permanent. Was where I went. You could be suspended for a week but expel was the final straw

[Drusin]

There is absolutely no way that the US spends 20x more on the military than education. Your claim is so crazy that I’m not going to bother researching to prove you wrong. Check your source friend.

The Defense budget is 681 billion. https://www.defensenews.com/breaking...dget-for-2019/

The education budget is 71.5 billion https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/camp...ight-year.html Last year it was no shit 581 million.

But as of right now it's like 850% difference

You didn't know America spends the most (by $) on it's military? I thought everyone knew that. I think by GDP% Russia spends more though. I can't imagine what schools would be like if we spent over 680 billion on them lol.

[oplawlz]

Structure and a certain uniform knowledge set is pretty important. The only thing that should change in schools is the deplorable practice of letting students pass without actually understanding basic fundamental knowledge such as mathematics and grammar.

[Jonnusthegreat]

I’m going to say without research that I’m sure the us spends more on education than the military. Because I have common sense.

Now I’ll go research... by the way I imagine you’re confusing federal spending with total spending.

It's not a matter of being confused, it's a matter of fact. The US government spends 10x more on military than education.

[Drusin]

Research in progress... us spends $1900 per capita on military according to Wikipedia. For Jonus to be correct that means they spend $190 per capita on education... lol not looking good.

If you find a way to show that America spends over 680 billion dollars on education I want to see sources. I know a few teachers and it'll be fun to use that as an argument whenever they bring up teacher pay lol.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Ok so roughly 1/4 of the population is in public school and spending is 12k per student according to multiple sources. That works out to 3k per person. Military spending is 2k per person.

Btw I noticed a slight shift in your argument, you said the “us government” the second time, after saying “the us” the first time, which I’m assuming you’re going to then shift to “the federal government” the third time. Which is a silly stat to quote because education is mostly funded by state and local governments. “The us” spends plenty on education; the federal government doesn’t. Your original statement was kind of like saying “the US spends nothing on treating raw sewage” because sewage treatment is mostly handled by local, not national government.

Nothing triggers me like misleading stat usage lol.

I did not change my argument - the US and the US government is the same thing. I was simplify clarifying for your sake. How much does the US spend on iphones? Probably very little, maybe a few million. The people in the US spend hundreds of millions on them, though.

There are 3 types of lies, after all. You should probably get used to it. Everyone has their own goalpost. We are simply having different discussions, together.

[qwerty123456]

I thought the purpose of expelling students was that it was permanent. Was where I went. You could be suspended for a week but expel was the final straw

You are right suspensions are what they call a week or two removal from school. But here expelling isn't permanent i think its only for the school year. I assume if they like sold drugs in the school and a kid OD'd it might be more permanent but smashing bus windows, getting drunk on school trips, fighting with golf clubs, fake bomb threats and stuff haven't gotten anyone permanently expelled.

[Drusin]

https://archive.attn.com/stories/110...ompare-america

We do spend more per student than some other countries but we don't spend more than we do on the military. There's no real way to argue that.

But it's only a problem K-12, we still have more top colleges than any other country.

[P for Pancetta]

By what measure are they underfunded?

US schools receive their funding from property tax which means schools in poor areas receive much less money then those in richer areas. The result is that many schools in poorer areas don't have enough funding to provide the necessities required to provide the level of education that standardized testing is aimed at.

[Drusin]

Quote from that exact article: “It's true — as Forbes' Erik Kain points out — that state and local governments generally foot the bill when it comes to education spending in America. If you factor those contributions in, the U.S. spent about $880 billion on education in 2011.”

and right after that "compared to $966 billion total on defense"

[Dwarfhamster]

Because most US schools are underfunded, but those who do have enough money do it much better. The reason why most US schools are bad doesn't have much to do with the school system.

Yeah so much this. Education policy and funding in the US is a hodgepodge that takes way too long to get into, and probably can't in a discussion forum like this. It's a mix local school district funding, state funding, federal funding, foundation grants, local school district policies, county board of education policies, state policies, federal policies, layers of bureaucracy, teachers unions, school boards, parents, administrators.

Singapore has among the best primary and secondary education system in the world. Not only education of children, but continuous education for teachers. They pay teachers well but also tie to performance. And the system recognizes where it is weak (too much reliance on rote memorization) and are making improvements. The US has fallen so far behind, it's embarrassing. Higher education in the US is still top-notch in the world.

[Tom Anderson]

American schools have been fundamentally flawed since the mid-1900s. As of right now they are little more than daycare, so that parents can work. They teach children how to interact in social environments, and train how to react to authority figures.
For schools to change the entire system would need to be overhauled from the ground up. Which will probably never happen.

[Nihilist74]

American schools need to change a lot. We need to get rid of textbooks and use computers more often. We need a lower student to teach ratio, year around school, and elementary/junior high students should have the same teachers every year. We need more vocational schooling for high school students. We need to make sure our best young minds are going into STEM educational programs. We need to stop paying school administrators so much money.

[Vouksh89]

What's pretty amazing is how much better Amish society is doing compared to the rest of America despite very little formal education. The Amish have huge families and accumulate lots of wealth. Many are turning into millionaires now. They demonstrate how plenty of self-discipline, co-operation, frugality, humility, and industriousness massively outweighs formal education. I expect American society will be forced to start copying Amish culture (including education styles) because it will become so incredibly obvious it is superior, just not sure when.

I try to stay out of political stuff, but I can tell you first-hand that, from the outside, the Amish might look all nice and happy and industrious, but what you don't see is the rampant drug abuse, sexual molestation, rape, "accidental" deaths, excommunication, incest/inbreeding, assault, misogyny, etc. I'm from an area that's basically Amish on one side of the county, and "english" (normal-ish people) on the other.
My grandmother was kicked out of the amish after she reported that her uncle raped her. Literally nothing was done to him. He remained an elder of the church, while she was treated as if she'd died. She tried to go to the police, but they didn't (and still don't) do anything to members of the amish.

As for their education, it's extremely poor. They only go to school up to about our 8th grade. And even then, they don't learn any history outside of the bible, they learn just enough english to barely get by, and almost completely forgo math after they learn just enough to do basic stuff like addition & subtraction and learning to do basic measurements.

So I vehemently disagree that we should follow ANY example the amish might set forth. I could go on for days on just how shitty the amish really are, but this isn't the right thread for that.