Camp Fire: 9 deaths, 6,453 homes burned in most destructive wildfire in California hi

[Vash The Stampede]

You're right. It was deliberate.

It was PG&E deliberately ignoring safety concerns to save money.

See. you're getting it.

Now fuck off to the corners of the internet where you get conviction you're strong and right about the conspiracy shit so you can believe you're in control of anything else.

I don't think you're getting it.

[Deficineiron]

Those other cars in the video are freaking nuts for slowly driving along. There is fire on both sides of you MOVE MOTHERFUCKER!!!

I wonder what the outside temperature on the road was, and what risk there was of either tires melting or other heat-related problem with the car.

all it takes, presumably, is for it to get hot enough for something important to melt (wire, hose, ?) and it is over.

[Ayla]

Why do forest fires spread so quickly? I mean, there's concrete between the houses...I don't get it.

Embers can travel up to 10km and start new spot fires. Unfortunately fire doesn't roll like lava

[Chinese Bootlickers]

Here is some food for thought.

Somewhere in America, evangelicans are celebrating this death and destruction. Think about that.

Only in America.

Not like there's any bitter Yuropoors doing that right now or anything.

[Budong]

Well it's always nice to know our president is on top of things and well informed.

Trump is asked if the seeing the devastation from the California wildfires has changed his opinion on climate change. Trump: "No. No. I have a strong opinion: I want great climate."

[XangXu]

Not like there's any bitter Yuropoors doing that right now or anything.

On look a meme. Cute.

Crawl back to 4chan, scum. You may have win the country, but your reign is crumbling around you. Soon your kind sill be nothing but children attempting to use outdated brainwashing tactics to control a world that has moved on from your bullshit.

2020 will be the year where we destroy your kind, or your kind destroys the world.

[Chinese Bootlickers]

On look a meme. Cute.

Crawl back to 4chan, scum. You may have win the country, but your reign is crumbling around you. Soon your kind sill be nothing but children attempting to use outdated brainwashing tactics to control a world that has moved on from your bullshit.

2020 will be the year where we destroy your kind, or your kind destroys the world.

Also holy mother of assumptions Batman.

[deenman]

Considering how expensive homes are in California, my gut feeling tells me the fire was started for real estate reasons. Financial real estate reasons.

I just hope the fires didnt make any of the local wildlife like for example the frogs gay.

[XangXu]

Also holy mother of assumptions Batman.

Look more memes. It’s like that’s the only way you can say anything, is with a word and a picture that is very much akin to brainwashing.

Please, keep going. It’s very amusing.

[Vash The Stampede]

On look a meme. Cute.

Crawl back to 4chan, scum. You may have win the country, but your reign is crumbling around you. Soon your kind sill be nothing but children attempting to use outdated brainwashing tactics to control a world that has moved on from your bullshit.

2020 will be the year where we destroy your kind, or your kind destroys the world.

Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton? Bernie Bro or go home.

I just hope the fires didnt make any of the local wildlife like for example the frogs gay.

[Aphrel]

At one point it was moving at 80 football fields a minute, and had not only exploded to over 18,000 acres but had wiped out an entire town in less than 8 hours.

Another interesting unit..
Also "moving" is very missleading word when talking about growth.

[Vanyali]

I have to ask, don't utilities have to give reports on any cabling that is in dangerous positions e.g. make require tree removal? We had a fire earlier this year (thankfully the area was uninhabited though sadly a great spot for tourists) caused by an electric spark from nearby calbes during high wind and the utilities company showed documents that they had reported the problem several times to the forest authority requesting that some trees be removed only to be ignored Is there a regulation requiring regular reports and disclosures there for utilities?

Yes/ no.

If its an immediate danger they have to take care of it. That'd be your electric lines snapping in the street, a fire hazard in an area where people live, and stuff that's like that. If it's possible danger, such as someone's tree being too close, they either have to shut it down and cut it or get someone to cut it depending on where its at.

If its a sparking transformer that's been reported in a rural area they apparently just have to say "eh, it's not an immediate danger" and ignore it because it wasn't sparking near people, just dry grass that certainly wouldn't ever catch fire like it did before. The problem here wasn't forest upkeep, at all, but the fact that an actively sparking transformer was ignored because they decided sparks weren't a safety hazard. Again.

They should be required to not only provide free power for the surrounding area until they get back on their feet but to act as insurance for every person affected until they run out of money or everyone is restored.

[Deficineiron]

Yes/ no.

If its an immediate danger they have to take care of it. That'd be your electric lines snapping in the street, a fire hazard in an area where people live, and stuff that's like that. If it's possible danger, such as someone's tree being too close, they either have to shut it down and cut it or get someone to cut it depending on where its at.

If its a sparking transformer that's been reported in a rural area they apparently just have to say "eh, it's not an immediate danger" and ignore it because it wasn't sparking near people, just dry grass that certainly wouldn't ever catch fire like it did before. The problem here wasn't forest upkeep, at all, but the fact that an actively sparking transformer was ignored because they decided sparks weren't a safety hazard. Again.

They should be required to not only provide free power for the surrounding area until they get back on their feet but to act as insurance for every person affected until they run out of money or everyone is restored.

a lot depends on time-line - it is easy to character-assassinate the company with very little info.

when was this reported? how often are such reports made, particularly in high wind conditions?

was an inspection scheduled? when was it scheduled for? what is the normal lead-time for a crew to go look at something like this? what would be required to get the inspection lag down to a few hours?

I am not defending PCG, but there are a lot of mitigating factors that either are not public or the media is simply not addressing. For now, PCG is going to be the bad guy/fall guy.

now on the other hand, suppose PCG is shown to have really screwed up at every level. how do you charge a corporation with x counts of negligent homicide? If a poster here accidently starts a fire like this, they might well expect just that, but it seems like large companies get a pass on killing folks in the course of business (e.g. the google driverless car accident).

[Brubear]

a lot depends on time-line - it is easy to character-assassinate the company with very little info.

when was this reported? how often are such reports made, particularly in high wind conditions?

was an inspection scheduled? when was it scheduled for? what is the normal lead-time for a crew to go look at something like this? what would be required to get the inspection lag down to a few hours?

I am not defending PCG, but there are a lot of mitigating factors that either are not public or the media is simply not addressing. For now, PCG is going to be the bad guy/fall guy.

now on the other hand, suppose PCG is shown to have really screwed up at every level. how do you charge a corporation with x counts of negligent homicide? If a poster here accidently starts a fire like this, they might well expect just that, but it seems like large companies get a pass on killing folks in the course of business (e.g. the google driverless car accident).

I think part of the reason everyone is being quick to blame PG&E is because 1) They knew there was an issue with the area as it was reported at least the day before (no confirmation if it was earlier) 2) The days prior they issued a notice that they might have to shut off power to the area due to unsafe fire conditions, but chose not to for whatever reason (their justification for not shutting it off hasn't been confirmed that I've seen) 3) They have been found to be responsible for multiple wildfires in the past.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/13/pge-...wildfires.html

Shares of electric utility company PG&E plunged 7.7 percent Friday on concerns its power lines may have started the massive wildfires that have ravaged California recently.

The stock was also on track for its worst day since September 2010.

The California Public Utilities Commission sent a letter on Thursday to PG&E — California's largest electrical utility company — reminding them to preserve "all evidence with respect to the Northern California wildfires in Napa, Sonoma and Solano Counties," according to multiple reports.

The commission was investigating whether electrical lines that were knocked down by a windstorm on Sunday played a role in sparking the most lethal wildfire event in the state's history.

"Safety is our top priority," said Donald Cutler, a spokesperson for PG&E. "Our customers are our neighbors and friends and we're doing everything we can to help out."

Unfortunately, California has a history of power company lines becoming the sources of fires. It is still not clear if PG&E was to blame for the fires, but it has been found guilty before of negligence in fires.

Past fires where PG&E was faulted include the deadly Butte Fire in California's Amador County in 2015. Cal Fire investigated the fire, which destroyed 549 homes, and ended up sending a bill to PG&E for about $90 million to cover firefighting expenses.

In 2007, the Malibu fires that burned more than a dozen structures were caused by Southern California Edison utility poles that fell during heavy winds; they paid $63.5 million in fines. Also, San Diego Gas & Electric power lines started three major fires the same year and paid nearly $700 million to insurers to settle claims.

PG&E shares are down 13 percent this week.

The drop in the stock "reflects the following assumptions: 1) the fire was caused by PCG's negligence, 2) insurance coverage for 3rd party liabilities will be very limited, 3) damage costs per acre far larger than those for the 2015 Butte fire and 4) material fines and penalties will be assessed," Christopher Turnure, an analyst at JPMorgan, said in a note Thursday. "We appreciate the severity of the fires and the legal challenges of operating in California, but estimate this loss of value as approaching a worst-case scenario for PCG shares."


Turnure is maintaining his overweight rating on the stock on the notion these fears are overblown.

The wildfire has killed at least 31 people in Northern California and has left hundreds missing in the heart of wine country. The toll from the more than 20 fires raging across eight counties could climb, with more than 400 people in Sonoma County alone still listed as missing.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/08/61844...rnia-wildfires

Downed power lines owned by utility giant Pacific Gas and Electric are being blamed for a dozen Northern California wildfires last fall. The findings by state officials could have a significant financial impact on PG&E.

The report by the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection links electric power and distribution lines with 12 fires that killed 18 people. The trouble started when trees and branches came into contact with power lines and wind gusts of up to 70 mph pushed wildfires faster than firefighters could respond.

Here is the report's summary of two of the deadliest fires that claimed 15 lives:

"The Redwood Fire, in Mendocino County, started the evening of Oct. 8 and burned a total of 36,523 acres, destroying 543 structures. There were nine civilian fatalities and no injuries to firefighters. CAL FIRE has determined the fire started in two locations and was caused by tree or parts of trees falling onto PG&E power lines. ...

"The Atlas Fire, in Napa County, started the evening of Oct. 8 and burned a total of 51,624 acres, destroying 783 structures. There were six civilian fatalities. CAL FIRE investigators determined the fire started in two locations. At one location, it was determined a large limb broke from a tree and came into contact with a PG&E power line. At the second location, investigators determined a tree fell into the same line."

State law says utility companies can be held liable for the costs of firefighting, even when they haven't violated safety rules.

PG&E is facing more than 50 lawsuits filed by fire victims arguing that the utility is responsible for fires that scorched the wine country counties of Napa and Sonoma last year.

An earlier investigation found that PG&E's failure to clear or trim trees near power lines caused three wildfires in Butte and Nevada counties in the fall.

The Cal Fire report said its investigations have been referred to local authorities "due to evidence of alleged violations of state law."

The utility issued a statement saying it will "carefully review the CAL FIRE reports to understand the agency's perspectives."

It added:

"Based on the information we have so far, we continue to believe our overall programs met our state's high standards.

"For example, PG&E meets or exceeds regulatory requirements for pole integrity management, using a comprehensive database to manage multiple patrol and inspection schedules of our more than two million poles."

- - - Updated - - -

Another interesting unit..
Also "moving" is very missleading word when talking about growth.

How is using moving to describe a wildfire misleading? Would you rather growing, expanding, or progressing, because none of those would change the meaning of that sentence. CAL Fire often uses the term "fast-moving" when describing wildfires.

[Vanyali]

a lot depends on time-line - it is easy to character-assassinate the company with very little info.

when was this reported? how often are such reports made, particularly in high wind conditions?

was an inspection scheduled? when was it scheduled for? what is the normal lead-time for a crew to go look at something like this? what would be required to get the inspection lag down to a few hours?

I am not defending PCG, but there are a lot of mitigating factors that either are not public or the media is simply not addressing. For now, PCG is going to be the bad guy/fall guy.

now on the other hand, suppose PCG is shown to have really screwed up at every level. how do you charge a corporation with x counts of negligent homicide? If a poster here accidently starts a fire like this, they might well expect just that, but it seems like large companies get a pass on killing folks in the course of business (e.g. the google driverless car accident).

This isn't the first time they've caused a fire, nor was it out of nowhere as they issued warnings about possibly shutting down due to exactly what happened... except they didn't shut down. But most damning is the fact that this isn't the first time and the governor just happened to sign a bill saying they're not going to pay a dime from lawsuits because WE are. We, the taxpayers, are footing the bill for them burning down a community... including those that had everything they own burned. Because they're "too big to fall".

You don't have to charge them with negligent homicide. Hard to do that with a company. You can force them to pay the insurance payouts, however. All of them. Until they shut down or run out of people that need to be made whole. This includes the personal bank of those included in making the decision to ignore safety warnings. Start slapping companies like that and you'll start seeing actual safety crews rather than a huddle consisting of how to properly walk up a ladder every day consisting of the two people slowest to escape HR's deadline.

[Deficineiron]

This isn't the first time they've caused a fire, nor was it out of nowhere as they issued warnings about possibly shutting down due to exactly what happened... except they didn't shut down. But most damning is the fact that this isn't the first time and the governor just happened to sign a bill saying they're not going to pay a dime from lawsuits because WE are. We, the taxpayers, are footing the bill for them burning down a community... including those that had everything they own burned. Because they're "too big to fall".

You don't have to charge them with negligent homicide. Hard to do that with a company. You can force them to pay the insurance payouts, however. All of them. Until they shut down or run out of people that need to be made whole. This includes the personal bank of those included in making the decision to ignore safety warnings. Start slapping companies like that and you'll start seeing actual safety crews rather than a huddle consisting of how to properly walk up a ladder every day consisting of the two people slowest to escape HR's deadline.

Personally in cases like this I think negligent homocide against the persons involved a decision that clearly was negligent (and that has not been established here, but maybe it could) makes legal sense. A good counter-point would be to what degree can the company purge its internal records to make the fall guy be some poor flunky.

[Aphrel]

How is using moving to describe a wildfire misleading? Would you rather growing, expanding, or progressing, because none of those would change the meaning of that sentence. CAL Fire often uses the term "fast-moving" when describing wildfires.

because growth is measured in area increase. But movement is measured by speed. And no, the fire is not moving at the speed of 80 fotballfeilds a minute. Thats 527km/h or 330mph. (110m long field)
Its was growing at the area increase of 80 fotball fields a minute. The actual speed of the fire moving is something entirely diffrent. Sure it probobly moved pretty fast aswell but nowhere near that rediculus speed.

[Brubear]

The fire is fully contained and extinguished as of Monday. 153,336 acres are within containment lines making it the 16th largest fire in state history.. The death toll is at 88, though thankfully the Sheriff's office is saying they don't expect to find any more remains in the city, and are even hoping to start to let residents back in sometime next week. They have aerial maps of the areas affected and they're brutal.

https://www.actionnewsnow.com/conten...500331361.html

A total of 18,793 structures were destroyed including almost 14,000 residences. It is far and away the most destructive fire in California history, with the next closest being last years Tubbs Fire which only destroyed 5,636 structures.

What makes it all even worse, however, is that we're finally getting the rain we so desperately needed. But we're getting a lot. As in they are having to evacuate areas (including some of the areas that they had started to let people repopulate) due to flooding. I have received 6 evacuation alerts on my phone, along with multiple evacuation warnings.

So not only was an entire town destroyed in a fire, but what remains of peoples lives is being washed away by the first significant rain event in close to a year.

https://www.actionnewsnow.com/conten...501582561.html

List of the flood evacuation orders we've received today so far.

[Machismo]

The fire is fully contained and extinguished as of Monday. 153,336 acres are within containment lines making it the 16th largest fire in state history.. The death toll is at 88, though thankfully the Sheriff's office is saying they don't expect to find any more remains in the city, and are even hoping to start to let residents back in sometime next week. They have aerial maps of the areas affected and they're brutal.

https://www.actionnewsnow.com/conten...500331361.html

A total of 18,793 structures were destroyed including almost 14,000 residences. It is far and away the most destructive fire in California history, with the next closest being last years Tubbs Fire which only destroyed 5,636 structures.

What makes it all even worse, however, is that we're finally getting the rain we so desperately needed. But we're getting a lot. As in they are having to evacuate areas (including some of the areas that they had started to let people repopulate) due to flooding. I have received 6 evacuation alerts on my phone, along with multiple evacuation warnings.

So not only was an entire town destroyed in a fire, but what remains of peoples lives is being washed away by the first significant rain event in close to a year.

I'm hoping people don't try to rebuild there, and move off to greener pastures. Between that and the Carr Fire, Northern California has had a rough year (there was also the Mendocino Complex).

[Brubear]

I'm hoping people don't try to rebuild there, and move off to greener pastures. Between that and the Carr Fire, Northern California has had a rough year (there was also the Mendocino Complex).

Realistically, Paradise itself isn't likely to ever recover. Some people will try and rebuild, but that community is likely to never come back. The town was a retirement community, with the median age being over 50, and about a quarter of the town was over 65. Even if those people wanted to rebuild, some of them aren't even likely to live long enough for that to happen (since they estimate it could take a year or more to clear away all the debris and toxic materials).

So they might not even have a choice on the matter.