Titanforging is here to stay

[adamzz]

that actually makes WF/TF worse than in legion.

In Legion you could rely on the tf of items. It was still a bad implementation but everyone had a ton of TF items so in conclusion no one had.

Right now the procc chance was significantly lowered... and now i would say that it feels way more awful if i see some casual idiot with a 38x tf item because i actually do high content and don't get the gear or the tf proccs. Whereas in Legion you where pretty much safe with x tf loot per ID.

I have to mention that i am completely against TF because..yeah..rng sucks. Give me Back Mop Itemlvl enhancements up to 4/4... everyone can progress by this system without rng sh*t

If you care what gear casuals have the problem lies with you. Even if a casual get a lucky 395 from a heroic 5man he will still be easy behind any high end player. Farming mythic uldir and 10+ keys will give you a lot better gear overall than any casual will get from random tf procs.

[andrewjoy]

I can kind of understand where they are coming from, they are wrong.... dead wrong, but i can see why they think that.

Its a fundamental misunderstanding of players and how they think and play.

1) People need a true end goal, this is not a looter game its an RPG, there needs to be a goal, whist that goal can be hard to obtain it needs to be mathematically possible at the very least in a reasonable amount of time.

2) Not being able to target a specific part of that goal is frustrating, it removes agency from the player and leaves that at the whims of a dice, one dice ( your item dropping) was enough randomness. You need to be able to see that you have made progress , got x badges today, farmed so much honour today getting close to that item rarther than logging on and getting a dice roll thats all or nothing every day. This is why the current PVP conquest system is in my mind vastly superior to that of the PvE gearing system.

3) The exponential iLVL increase this system causes is doing real damage to the the systems of the game, they where not designed for it and its a mess. Stat squish and scaling all the time is not a way to solve this, i mean in a few more xpacs are lvl 60 epics going to have 0.1 DPS on them ? how are the numbers even going to work.

[HuxNeva]

Here man did you a little favour with a little more detailing some of them.

Unfortunately that post you link, the first 2 points are just personal opinions and the last point has nothing to do with TF.

[Alkizon]

Unfortunately that post you link, the first 2 points are just personal opinions and the last point has nothing to do with TF.

If you saing this, then we have nothing to talk with you about this issue, because you don't understand anything in terms of this part of game design. Sorry, these are basics, it's useless to talk further without them. I was lucky in my time, I found interested friends who explained to me in stages interdependence of similar game elements (both design and psychology). But I'm not your friend, rather a bystander, who doesn't see much use in detailed comments. If you want - figure it out yourself, if don't - stay in darkness. The choice is yours

Man looked and even maybe if couldn't understand why, then at least for sure understood "what" is a problem, means everything is explained fairly well.

ps. Can't help you.

That would remove chance for casual player to get high end gear. You cant do that to them. They also paid for the game so they also deserve chance on mythic gear.

...and this logic led game to situation which happening now. You banally exclude "ceiling", and bypasses progress stages. Casual-ity for casuals and skillfulness for "skills". Otherwise, this is no longer game design, but a frivolous woman. Want to overcome this wall? - make an effort, this is what for and how it was created

This is somehow reminiscent of "tolerant" winds we now have in Europe (although not only).

I guess the feeling is mutual. You display such a lack of comprehension about the 'actual' implementations and dynamics involved of the things you are discussing, and approach it from such a myopic perspective that I feel that you so entrenched in your 'wants' that no matter the facts or arguments brought to you, you'll never will want to accept them.

Of course, because there is their priority (significance). It makes no sense to pay attention to the state of secondary factors when main ones are in conflict. It's simple and logical

[Acelius]

Wouldn't the upgrade system from MoP be better? Then you have something to work towards instead of pure RNG.

They could make it interesting by having to go to a special blacksmith / tailor, whatever to get it upgraded.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't the upgrade system from MoP be better? Then you have something to work towards instead of pure RNG.

They could make it interesting by having to go to a special blacksmith / tailor, whatever to get it upgraded.

That would remove chance for casual player to get high end gear. You cant do that to them. They also paid for the game so they also deserve chance on mythic gear.

[Blackmist]

I quite like Titanforging, but I do think the chances of it should be improved for harder content, and you should be able to smash up spare gear or collect currency from bosses to buy extra item levels for your correct kit.

I think Blizzard need to accept that people should be able to get their BiS gear and take it easy for a few weeks, and that's OK. The game not only feels like a treadmill, it looks like one too. The illusion is gone.

[kamuimac]

Wouldn't the upgrade system from MoP be better? Then you have something to work towards instead of pure RNG.

They could make it interesting by having to go to a special blacksmith / tailor, whatever to get it upgraded.

because current iteration gives better resoults. simple as that.

if you watched blizzcon Ion was extremly specific on why they do not want BiS lists or gear for currency in their game.

[HuxNeva]

If you saing this, then we have nothing to talk with you about this issue, because you don't understand anything in terms of this part of game design. Sorry, these are basics, it's useless to talk further without them. I was lucky in my time, I found interested friends who explained to me in stages interdependence of similar game elements (both design and psychology). But I'm not your friend, rather a bystander, who doesn't see much use in detailed comments. If you want - figure it out yourself, if don't - stay in darkness. The choice is yours

Man looked and even may by if couldn't understand why, then at least for sure understood "what" is a problem, means everything is explained fairly well.

ps. Can't help you.

I guess the feeling is mutual. You display such a lack of comprehension about the 'actual' implementations and dynamics involved of the things you are discussing, and approach it from such a myopic perspective that I feel that you so entrenched in your 'wants' that no matter the facts or arguments brought to you, you'll never will want to accept them.

[kamuimac]

I quite like Titanforging, but I do think the chances of it should be improved for harder content, and you should be able to smash up spare gear or collect currency from bosses to buy extra item levels for your correct kit.

I think Blizzard need to accept that people should be able to get their BiS gear and take it easy for a few weeks, and that's OK. The game not only feels like a treadmill, it looks like one too. The illusion is gone.

they told you thats not how they design their game and why they dont design it this way

if you dont like it you are free to play something else.

[Acelius]

That would remove chance for casual player to get high end gear. You cant do that to them. They also paid for the game so they also deserve chance on mythic gear.

Not sure about that, if your gear is upgradeable to titanforging levels with a currency earned by doing daily dungeons, m+, emissary etc. casuals could still get the gear, but it would take longer than for raiders.

Like the old valor point system.

[Lazuli]

just w8 for classic servers

qft lul top kek 10charactersgayassrule

[Azen]

I can kind of understand where they are coming from, they are wrong.... dead wrong, but i can see why they think that.

Its a fundamental misunderstanding of players and how they think and play.

1) People need a true end goal, this is not a looter game its an RPG, there needs to be a goal, whist that goal can be hard to obtain it needs to be mathematically possible at the very least in a reasonable amount of time.

2) Not being able to target a specific part of that goal is frustrating, it removes agency from the player and leaves that at the whims of a dice, one dice ( your item dropping) was enough randomness. You need to be able to see that you have made progress , got x badges today, farmed so much honour today getting close to that item rarther than logging on and getting a dice roll thats all or nothing every day. This is why the current PVP conquest system is in my mind vastly superior to that of the PvE gearing system.

3) The exponential iLVL increase this system causes is doing real damage to the the systems of the game, they where not designed for it and its a mess. Stat squish and scaling all the time is not a way to solve this, i mean in a few more xpacs are lvl 60 epics going to have 0.1 DPS on them ? how are the numbers even going to work.

This is what most of the people who like titan forging and war forging don’t understand. The value of a goal. When RNG is the best (or only) way to achieve said goal, then it has no more value. Why would anyone work hard for something that can simply be achieved by anyone without any specific amount of effort or skill required.

As many have said before me, bring on classic.

[eduwneso]

It doesn't matter if it lower/higher, it only matters that it exists and how it fits into game design. The rest is just empty words.

I think it's just a different perspective for everyone, what I mean is, neither you or I are wrong about it. Maybe i'm way more positive than I should be about it, but while you are right in your own way, you can't dictate what is right for others who feel different about it.

[klepp0906]

I have no issue with WF/TF and, honestly, don't see why anyone would. As much as I have an open mind to polarizing opinions, this is just one of those things that I just can't get my head around on why people hate it.

For me, I like the fact that, if I have all the gear I want from say, the first 6 bosses of a raid, then I still have a chance of getting an upgrade from those 6 bosses as opposed to being bored knowing I'll get nothing until Boss 7.

thats when i log off, and im super excited i can actually play something from this DECADE or better yet, get a tan and see vaginas. I get it though, when I was younger and wow was a better game, it was a much higher priority than it is now for reasons i dont even have the energy to analyze or care about these days.

THAT is why people care about their BIS list. For starters an an mmoRPG there needs to be "best" items, otherwise it rips much of what makes an rpg right out from under it, removes a sense of completion, much less something to aspire to. Unless you can get your BIS to titanforge every slot i guess. In the end, people want to complete and feel pride in their character, and feel less compelled to log in. Whether its to start a new toon, or to do things theyve put off or were sacrificing to gear/prepare/excel on their main.

Meh, the wheel goes round.

[eduwneso]

Show me one HC raider that is 385 ilvl, the base for any M drop

- - - Updated - - -



Show me one ilvl384 that has just spammed M+10 and HC. And that is even lower than guaranteed base M 385

HC raider here, ilvl 366, I guess something is wrong here and my TF are all hidden.. or maybe... it's not that common and doesn't affect mythic raiders hmmm (responding to you supporting)

[Deleted]

Not sure about that, if your gear is upgradeable to titanforging levels with a currency earned by doing daily dungeons, m+, emissary etc. casuals could still get the gear, but it would take longer than for raiders.

Like the old valor point system.

It isnt supostu take longer. They simply should not have any piece of raidig gear which are most powerfull items what should drop only from most hardcore content period. Non of other activities should have even slighest chance to drop such high quality gear.

[HuxNeva]

Why would anyone work hard for something that can simply be achieved by anyone without any specific amount of effort or skill required.

Because you can't? Stop spouting nonsense and discuss the actual systems as they are implemented in WoW.

[Deleted]

HC raider here, ilvl 366, I guess something is wrong here and my TF are all hidden.. or maybe... it's not that common and doesn't affect mythic raiders hmmm (responding to you supporting)

It is common. You are propably just unlucky. I have half of my gear titanforget and warforged. There is so many gear drops and sources that forgin can actualy occure lot or non depends on your luck.

[klepp0906]

That would remove chance for casual player to get high end gear. You cant do that to them. They also paid for the game so they also deserve chance on mythic gear.

holy crap. did i just read this? Does anyone see the parallel's with this and almost every single solitary problem with modern society? LOL

ftr, I paid for college. Wasnt for me. I still deserve my doctorate.