[TV] Doctor Who

[Deficineiron]

Fun fact: Peter Davison was a popular young actor before becoming 5. He starred in the very popular "All Creatures Great and Small" as a young, college-aged womanizing, boozing veterinarian. Peter was rather typecast as a bad boy entering the role of 5, which skews how people viewed him during his run. Without that context, 5 seems a lot weaker. Peter was by FAR the most well-known actor to ever take the role in the classic era. I'd say only Capaldi was a bigger star prior to his run thanks to The Thick of It.

Good context. I knew about ACGS, but only vaguely - but viewers in the UK must have recognized him immediately.

I watched the first few Colin Baker episodes recently. I enjoyed them. For whatever reason, they reverted to a sympathetic (and teasingly dressed) companion with Nicola Bryant, but the actor himself brought some actual character back to the character, despite being saddled with that clown jacket. I enjoyed them though by this time the show's pacing had begun to speed up.

i tried to watch the first Sylvester episode, and cut it after a few minutes of him doing roll-arounds on the floor trying to get away from the Rani. I had read that the show became more pantomine-like towards the end and wonder if this is what is referred to.

[Gallahadd]

In fact, here's what I can find with one simple Google search:

Yeah... people are acting like the viewer drop is because of the new Doctor, the perceived “agenda” the show has now, or a thousand other factors, and all are unique to the new casting...


When really, it’s just the way tv works. A LOT of shows will have a drop off in viewers over the course of the series. This is amplified for a show like Doctor Who, that can vary so drastically between seasons, due to factors like Showrunner and Doctor.

[eschatological]

But you knew the change in philosophy at teh beginning. They said they wanted to the new Dr Who to be more educational, more preachy. It is very much a feminist agenda, it's very much a sjw agenda. Where are the Darleks? the cybermen? I haven't watched this progressive drivel, but from what I have read pretty much all the baddies are human, and male no doubt. Apparently, there was an episode where a man got pregnant ffs.

And a quick google search will tell you about the drop in viewers. Losing a million a week is quite a feat.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...2-million.html

But it's in line with other series of Who, who drop on average around 3m a series. Jodie's run is on pace to be the best rated season of NuWho since the DoctorDonna season. The article I quoted even outlined it, but apparently you didn't even read the thing I quoted in my post.

A woman gave birth to kittens in this show's history. If you had actually watched the episode about the pregnant man, in his species men gave birth to boys and women gave birth to girls - it wasn't some attempted demasculization of men in general. He was a fucking alien. In 2nd episode of NuWho human beings were displayed as vainglorious trampolines.

Lastly, you didn't even spell Daleks right. Chibnall has stated he wants to establish some new villains before going back to the old stuff. The villains so far have been a tooth-faced alien hunter, a galactic space race of aliens, an escaped convict from the future, giant spiders, an alien that eats metal (and thus your spaceship), and then Islamaphobes in India in the 1940s.

And if you think "educational" is "SJW" I feel pretty bad for you.

[Kokolums]

Good context. I knew about ACGS, but only vaguely - but viewers in the UK must have recognized him immediately.

I watched the first few Colin Baker episodes recently. I enjoyed them. For whatever reason, they reverted to a sympathetic (and teasingly dressed) companion with Nicola Bryant, but the actor himself brought some actual character back to the character, despite being saddled with that clown jacket. I enjoyed them though by this time the show's pacing had begun to speed up.

i tried to watch the first Sylvester episode, and cut it after a few minutes of him doing roll-arounds on the floor trying to get away from the Rani. I had read that the show became more pantomine-like towards the end and wonder if this is what is referred to.

They seemed to keep trying to subvert expectations with every recast of the doctor. 5 had grown to become more of a nice guy doctor by his third season, so they went against that and cast 6 as a grumpy mean person. 7 was cast as a very kid-friendly Doctor so they went with a guy that did silly grins and prat falls.

Then the show got cancelled and the BBC focused on doing a Doctor Who feature film. An outside production company bought the rights to produce it. After some false starts, by 1993 they were finalizing plans to start production. They were rumored to be in negotiations with Alan Rickman to play the Doctor and the film would involve the Key to Time. Rickman was asked about this in 2015 and only said he had never been sent a script. However, there was some disagreement among head honchos in the BBC about the future direction of Doctor Who, and the Alan Rickman film never won final approval from the BBC. Steven Spielberg was trying to produce his own version. Ultimately Phil Segal, former VP of Spielberg's Amblin Entertainment, headed up the 1996 TV movie.

My guess is we probably would have gotten Alan Rickman as the 8th Doctor in a wide release film until Spielberg interfered and we wound up with a TV movie starring McGann. Well, it was a 3 picture deal so I imagine we'd get 3 major motion pictures starring Alan Rickman in 1996, 1999, and 2002.

[Sunseeker]

You know, I guess I'm the outlier here but I really liked Demons of the Punjab. Yeah, it's got some problems and no I really don't know the history but I thought it was a fairly touching episode both both supported the Doctor's belief that messing around in your own past is a bad idea, but also didn't support the Doctor by revealing all of these previously unknown bits.

Although the entire episode could have been avoided if Grandma has simply told her family about the crazy stuff in her past. I mean how long have they been living in Sheffield? I get that this is painful stuff and she loved her first husband but she's also been lying about parts of it for years. The "secret" really isn't even that dark, it's not like she murdered anyone or is a secret criminal or an alien or...

But that's me watching too much CinemaSins.

------

I do agree that there are problems with Jodie's "presence" in the series. I'll blame it on three elements: Her outfit is whacky from a modern-day perspective but is fairly neutral in color. Second: Jodie's voice really just doesn't "grab" your attention when she's talking. Third: this is the problem with "parties". Some characters get watered down to make room for there to be more characters.

[Gallahadd]

Solid episode. Fairly classic “Doctor arrives, shit goes wrong, Doctor fixes.” arc, but with just enough of a twist (murderbots AREN’T murdering, Bubblewrap is) to make the episode seem fresh.

More like this please!

And next week we’ll be dipping into England’s own witch hysteria. A lot of potential there! Also, rather enjoying this pattern if one historical, then one Sci Fi episode. Keeps everything fresh.

Although, I would like an Earth based episode, here and there.

[Sunseeker]

Solid episode. Fairly classic “Doctor arrives, shit goes wrong, Doctor fixes.” arc, but with just enough of a twist (murderbots AREN’T murdering, Bubblewrap is) to make the episode seem fresh.

More like this please!

And next week we’ll be dipping into England’s own witch hysteria. A lot of potential there! Also, rather enjoying this pattern if one historical, then one Sci Fi episode. Keeps everything fresh.

Although, I would like an Earth based episode, here and there.

Am I wrong for expecting the bad guys to be Cybermen?

Yeah, Chibnall wants new villains and all that but seriously.

[Gallahadd]

Am I wrong for expecting the bad guys to be Cybermen?

Yeah, Chibnall wants new villains and all that but seriously.

Not at all. I’m 100% sure that was his intent. I mean, killer robots that seem to be taking humans, to an unseen location and doing unknown things to them... that SCREAMS Cybermen. I would be surprised if Chibnall had set that up as a deliberate misdirect, so that we’d be more surprised when the real villain was revealed.

[Sunseeker]

Not at all. I’m 100% sure that was his intent. I mean, killer robots that seem to be taking humans, to an unseen location and doing unknown things to them... that SCREAMS Cybermen. I would be surprised if Chibnall had set that up as a deliberate misdirect, so that we’d be more surprised when the real villain was revealed.

I really didn't like the "villain" in this tho. And that's not just a "hey this would have made a great Cybermen episode" but like, there almost ZERO demonstrated frustration with the System. It kinda read more like edgy mc edgelords manifesto. What, 90% of the people aren't working so...they live in poverty? They...are oppressed by the government? Didn't really explain any of that, like, what exactly was the social problem with automation?

And I'm confused by the point of the episode. Are we supposed to view it as "be thankful your corporate overlords give you jobs" or are we supposed to view it as "dont trust your corporate overlords"? Because in this case both of the "corporate overlords" were actually good people!

Like, what's the moral here? Don't be a terrorist? I mean...he got what he wanted in the end right? More human workers?

[Spike`]

Ryan and Yasmin? totally kills the show for me especially Ryan

just make them hook up already and remove them from the show and keep Graham, the best one by far

Yasmin can have potential being a cop but its seems totally written to be the Ryan sidekick and he's the worst one

i know people dont share the same opinions but....

[Gallahadd]

Like, what's the moral here? Don't be a terrorist? I mean...he got what he wanted in the end right? More human workers?

The moral does seem a bit blurry... was it anti corporate? Was it a dig at the whole “angry white man” thing, was it anti Mechanisation? All of the above?

I’m guessing/hoping he was trying to make the whole thing a bit less cut and dry than that. It’s not a question of good guys and bad guys, per se. I mean, the evil overlord boss was actually trying to help the whole time, the nice young man that helped them the whole way through, was actually behind it all, the killer robots who were attacking people were actually trying to save them, and bubblewrap is deadly.

I’m wondering I’d the message was INTENTIONALLY a bit confusing, because we’re meant to think “maybe all isn’t what it seems, and we need to look deeper at stuff. Take less things for granted.”

Or maybe, just maybe, I’m hugely overthinking this all.

[MatadorMedia]

I just hope they give Jodie a personality sometime soon. Playing the "role" is not the same as inhabiting the "person" of the Doctor.

Plus she's a total hypocrite and no one is calling her on her bullcrap. In this most recent episode, she proclaims robots are sentient and have rights... then at the end of the episode blows up 100 of them without remorse. Plus the whole point she's trying to make is that you don't have to kill anyone b/c you can talk things out... then straight up murders that custodian kid with the robot bombs and that's okay?! I get that the Doctor has always been hypocritical, but he/she at least realizes this or gets called out by someone else... but not Jodie. Trash writing.

[Sunseeker]

Ryan and Yasmin? totally kills the show for me especially Ryan

just make them hook up already and remove them from the show and keep Graham, the best one by far

Yasmin can have potential being a cop but its seems totally written to be the Ryan sidekick and he's the worst one

i know people dont share the same opinions but....

I know there's some weird fuss among in the UK over Graham's actor, but I really do think he's doing great. And "old male companion to young female doctor" really does throw the typical setup on it's head, which I like.

But yeah I do generally agree, there's obviously an awkward romance setup here between Ryan and Yaz but it's just...bad. Ryan's not as adorably dumb as Rory and Yaz would make a fine companion on her own if they played up the "cop" part of her. I mean half of what The Doctor does is basically playing space police.

The moral does seem a bit blurry... was it anti corporate? Was it a dig at the whole “angry white man” thing, was it anti Mechanisation? All of the above?

I’m guessing/hoping he was trying to make the whole thing a bit less cut and dry than that. It’s not a question of good guys and bad guys, per se. I mean, the evil overlord boss was actually trying to help the whole time, the nice young man that helped them the whole way through, was actually behind it all, the killer robots who were attacking people were actually trying to save them, and bubblewrap is deadly.

I’m wondering I’d the message was INTENTIONALLY a bit confusing, because we’re meant to think “maybe all isn’t what it seems, and we need to look deeper at stuff. Take less things for granted.”

Or maybe, just maybe, I’m hugely overthinking this all.

That's my problem right now: either the episode was hugely deep with "not everything is as it seems" or the episode was simply confusing and poorly laid out.

A theme that would have been nice to carry through this series could have been laying bare some of The Doctors own prejudices. Obviously she's got some (soldiers, guns and Daleks at least). There could be some occasional conflict between Yaz and The Doctor since cops are soldiers-lite, we could have the Doctor drop some fan service and reference bad encounters with robots which is why she initially thought the note must be from a "person", not even considering the potential "personhood" of a high-powered AI that does package delivery. (which would essentially be the "Smile" episode all over again, but still)

We've seen a lot of talk about the prejudices of others, and that's easy, anyone can point to bad people doing bad things and say "Look ma! Racism!" but the point of talking about those things is to reflect on your own prejudices. Prejudices The Doctor has clearly been shown to hold.

It's worth noting that referring to "organics" as persons/people can be even more polarizing than referring to them as "organics". Yes, it's more respectful to organic humanoids who have been raised to believe their inherent nature entitles them to personhood, but moreso to machines by denying them the potential of personhood on the sheer basis of their mechanical nature.

I dunno, a lot of this season has potential, but it's awfully episodic, even for Doctor Who. For such a long running series with such deep lore, it shouldn't be difficult to thread a common theme throughout the series. Even if it's as simple as "prejudice bad!"

[Elim Garak]

I dunno, a lot of this season has potential, but it's awfully episodic, even for Doctor Who. For such a long running series with such deep lore, it shouldn't be difficult to thread a common theme throughout the series. Even if it's as simple as "prejudice bad!"

The common thread I see - is social issues. The only exception is the first episode with a proper villain.

[Sunseeker]

The common thread I see - is social issues. The only exception is the first episode with a proper villain.

I mean, okay I guess. So, Jodie Whitaker's Doctor is basically Captain Planet? I mean the "villain" in Spiders was literally Looten Plunder.

I mean, if the villain would be Duke Nukem I'd be totes okay with that.

[eschatological]

I do remember thinking at the end, "So.......the terrorist got what he wanted? More people working at the plant, less reliance on automation?"

The problem with this episode was that the twist wasn't really properly set up. There's some hint that automation has caused human job loss, but the entire view is from the corporation, so you don't get an idea if people are disgruntled by it, if there's unrest on the planet below, if the government has a system like Universal Basic Income in place, etc. I think there's one mention of a "movement" to get the 10% rule in place in the first place, but that's about it. So when the twist comes - that a terrorist is trying to discredit and thus disrupt automation - you're a bit confused as to where the animus comes from.

Also, it's a bit confusing how the 7 workers die. The one disappearance we see, a robot grabs the dude and he disappears (but somehow leaves his necklace behind) and we're to assume the robots did it. But if the terrorist was doing it, has he hacked the computers? How has no one noticed that previously? At the last minute we get the revelation that "people had been complaining about late deliveries" but no one had bothered to look into that before?

I think Yaz would be fine without Ryan.

Ryan's actor is.......just bad. His little monologues, especially when he's explaining his disability, fall flat every time. There's no emotional connection to him, despite his disability, because his disability never fucking matters. He could have just as easily not explained his disability and still done the thing and we wouldn't have that wasted bit of dialogue to cringe at.

But it was a much better episode than previous attempts. Also, they saved the bubble wrap at the end. I liked the Kara character, too bad she ded. Also the Doctor just straight up icing all the robots and the terrorist dude seems a little off message, but oh well. I don't know why a robot whose sole purpose was to deliver packages would just accept a change in address to deliver the packages to themselves, entities without a need for packages.

[Wezmon]

I know there's some weird fuss among in the UK over Graham's actor, but I really do think he's doing great. And "old male companion to young female doctor" really does throw the typical setup on it's head, which I like.

Really that was only during casting and pre-production (as he is well known for playing a bit of a joker whether in tv or in his presenting style), but I've not seen anything bad said about his acting since the pilot (I agree he's been great).

[Sunseeker]

But it was a much better episode than previous attempts. Also, they saved the bubble wrap at the end. I liked the Kara character, too bad she ded. Also the Doctor just straight up icing all the robots and the terrorist dude seems a little off message, but oh well. I don't know why a robot whose sole purpose was to deliver packages would just accept a change in address to deliver the packages to themselves, entities without a need for packages.

Am I the only one who felt bad for those robots? Based on the System being able to ask for help there was at least some degree of AI here, and the delivery bots did nothing wrong. There was no need to have them all blow themselves up. It's not like the bombs were IN the robots. Couldn't some people have just been tired to collect the "bomb wrap", dispose of it and move on?

Also: wouldn't there be rolls and rolls and rolls of this stuff? Or were the bombs somehow added after?

I dunno, I felt bad for the robots.

[Gallahadd]

A theme that would have been nice to carry through this series could have been laying bare some of The Doctors own prejudices.

I think that would be an excellent way to tie everything together. I mean, I know Chibnall has said there won’t be any continuity this season... but I think having a recurring theme is still a great idea, and since there has been a heavy theme of prejudice in so many episodes, having the Doctor confront hers would be a really great plan.

[Deleted]

i feel more like that their storys in the same episode, is very poorly strung togther. Like a kid with ADHD just piling stuff on without reason and cross connecting them.
and after 4th episode it also just felt like there where to many compains, it could be more fun if she had like a little rotation going.

Something like poping in and getting one to try to help her understand something. like the doctor in the almost people. Or She felt the need for 1-2 to see someone elses problem to help then get past their episode feud or something. So much missed opatunetity
and probley a a group tour once or twice in this season. And the stories also felt unfinshed i'm left with more questions about stuff then the episodes reveiled, things like what about the spiders or reason for Krasko, and the consiquense for Tzim-Sha for having a hunting ground on earth.

Things that didnt need a huge reviele just a little, i found a nice plannet for the spiders, their fine now and happy. Oh Tzim-sha cannot seem to get their telepoters to work for their next hunt so they had to find a new way of doing things. just a quick sentance at times. But now just quips and explaining history or shotting someone down.