[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Karamaru]

I think were pretty much set with DPS jobs for a while if the Gunblade turns out to be a DPS job I would not mind it either to be a tank job since I main tanks jobs already, but we do need to fix the current tank jobs first and make them viable in most encounters without them losing their main job flavor but I wonder if square can do that.

[Aruhen]

BLU as it stands is going to either A) require a ton of upkeep in content generation where you can use it, or B) left to rot once you learn all your abilities and are satisfied accomplishing whatever goals you wanted to do as BLU.

I'm just not sold that it's the best use of resources. I WOULD love to be proved wrong though.

This worries me a bit too but I don't think they're using a lot of resources to make the new content. The art which tends to be the biggest bottleneck seems like its using mostly reused assets.

I know exactly what a BLU is, I'm just not happy about it and I don't think you need to have every single skill to make BLU a cohesive, fun, and thematic experience. They've made countless concessions before, it seems strange to start now.

Exactly. I'm of the mind they could have used both the current job quest system and the new system they announced together. You get your core abilities from job quests that make you go out and learn abilities from monsters. Then you get your "fun" abilities that you can just learn out in the open world but these would be restricted to previous expansion group content and the open world.

We could have gotten another job that is similar to Bard in the sense that its more about priorities and procs instead of rigid rotations.

All this talk makes me want to go play the Tactics games. Those had a nice fun implementation of the job.

but we do need to fix the current tank jobs first and make them viable in most encounters without them losing their main job flavor but I wonder if square can do that.

??? All tanks are viable in all forms of content at the moment? Some are better obviously but you can do any piece of content as any tank. Heck both world first Ultimates had PLD and DRK as the two tanks.

I'm not saying there needs to be no changes, there obviously should but I think it's disingenuous when people say things like that.

[Karamaru]

I'm not saying there needs to be no changes, there obviously should but I think it's disingenuous when people say things like that.

Hey I can agree to that but tell that to my FC who wants me to roll out my Warrior when I prefer my Dark Knight but try to tell that people who min max every little detail

[Aruhen]

Hey I can agree to that but tell that to my FC who wants me to roll out my Warrior when I prefer my Dark Knight but try to tell that people who min max every little detail

I guess yeah I can understand that. My main is a RDM so I get very similar treatment whenever I try to do endgame content. The best is when you have to convince some idiot to allow you to come join then proceed to just completely and utterly destroy them in damage.

Changing player perception is a hard thing. Especially people who try to min max but have no idea what any of it really means and just mimic whatever some idiot parroted.

[Dugna]

its like getting that tank/healer that wants to "max dps because its the best thing" while losing aggro or letting the group die a slow death to unavoidable aoes because they gotta hit that stone a few more times.

seen some reddit post giving advice to a new WHM that said don't worry bout the lilies and don't cure or cure 2 because "It's a waste of a GCD" when stuff like that doesn't apply to like 99% of the game.

[Kaelwryn]

While I dont agree with the second part, i do agree with not worrying about lilies. They really don't make or break anything.

[Sorrior]

Hey I can agree to that but tell that to my FC who wants me to roll out my Warrior when I prefer my Dark Knight but try to tell that people who min max every little detail

This kinda thing is why i hate "meta" obsessed gamers.

Hell i remember in 2.0 a friebd had to BEG a healer to let me join on my war because if how bad WAR was considered..

Wound up being asked to tank by said healer many times after that.

It is often the player not just the class or math that matters buut try telling that to min maxers

[StrawberryZebra]

Eventually they probably will, maybe make it so some of the more insane moves (like Lv. 5 Death) are restricted so you can only use them outside of Duties/Carnivale. But that's probably not until 6.0 at the earliest.

It doesn't even have to be instant kill moves that are broken. Consider Bad Breath - a very common Blue Magic across most Final Fantasies, so it's likely it'll make it into FF14 too. Having access to an AoE Paralyse, Slow, Blind, Silence Poison and Heavy all rolled into one is enough to totally debilitate most trash packs for the full 30 second duration.

Mighty Guard, a spell that massively boosts your defences, and White Wind, a spell that heals the party and removes status effects, are also common enough Blue Magics that have the potential to be completely broken in an MMO.

It leaves Squenix with two choices. The first being to restrict access to these game breaking spells, and therefore crippling the Job before it even gets out of the gate. Or to restrict where the job can be acccessd so it can keep those amazingly powerful abilities without breaking other areas of the game. I'd much rather have the super powered but limited version of the job than the intentionally weakened version that has full access to content.

[Onikaroshi]

It is often the player not just the class or math that matters buut try telling that to min maxers

Yea, if you're not going for world first everything is viable... But these people turn small % differences into "unviable" and "garbage" lol. Every job has completed every type of content, nothing is unviable.

There's things that need to change with DRK, but it's more playstyle than what they are, DA spam is a bit.... tiring.

[Sorrior]

Yea, if you're not going for world first everything is viable... But these people turn small % differences into "unviable" and "garbage" lol. Every job has completed every type of content, nothing is unviable.

There's things that need to change with DRK, but it's more playstyle than what they are, DA spam is a bit.... tiring.

Plus a player who is just suitrd to the class(as i was 2.0 warrior) can do shit most think impossible or do better then the math/statistics show.

[Onikaroshi]

Plus a player who is just suitrd to the class(as i was 2.0 warrior) can do shit most think impossible or do better then the math/statistics show.

It's like wow sims, people think they're infallible for some reason. You can't look at everything in a vacuum, because, for the most part, you won't be performing in a vacuum :P.

[Sorrior]

It's like wow sims, people think they're infallible for some reason. You can't look at everything in a vacuum, because, for the most part, you won't be performing in a vacuum :P.

Yep why i tend to take a dim view of such things.i am actually very anti min max as I feel it takes away a lot from games and tends to lead to toxicity

[Eleccybubb]

Imo in high end content like Savage and Ultimate you should be playing the job and utilising it to it's best.

However in dungeons missing a positional or two isn't the end of the word. However not using big shit like Blood of the Dragon, RDM melee combo or Embolden, SMN dots or BRD songs then no.

Had a BRD the other day in Kugane castle who I asked to use songs and flat out refused saying he didn't need to. Well guess he didn't need to stay in my group when I kicked him then.

[dope_danny]

Imo in high end content like Savage and Ultimate you should be playing the job and utilising it to it's best.

However in dungeons missing a positional or two isn't the end of the word. However not using big shit like Blood of the Dragon, RDM melee combo or Embolden, SMN dots or BRD songs then no.

Had a BRD the other day in Kugane castle who I asked to use songs and flat out refused saying he didn't need to. Well guess he didn't need to stay in my group when I kicked him then.

As a RDM main it hurts to run into others in alliance raids that just spam ranged first tier spells. They always get asked, politely if they need help and say 'fuck you mages dont melee you dont pay my sub' and then it becomes pretty clear its a BLM """I C E M A G E""" you are running into. When RDM got a sizeable buff in the last patch my queues were full or them for like a week but then they probably got bored. There aint many shitters in XIV compared to other games but in my experience they are across the board FOTM players who chase the 'strong' job because it translates to 'dont need to pay attention'.

It makes me think of the people i know that buy unpopular games like Dissidia NT because of low competition because "its my IN to the pro FGC scene"

[Aruhen]

Imo in high end content like Savage and Ultimate you should be playing the job and utilising it to it's best.

However in dungeons missing a positional or two isn't the end of the word. However not using big shit like Blood of the Dragon, RDM melee combo or Embolden, SMN dots or BRD songs then no.

Had a BRD the other day in Kugane castle who I asked to use songs and flat out refused saying he didn't need to. Well guess he didn't need to stay in my group when I kicked him then.

https://i.imgur.com/gqZC2Ul.png - I'll just leave this here.

Of course they probably knew there as an ability to restore MP/TP but you're arguing semantics. If someone asks "please use TP/MP song" then just freaking use the ability. Don't argue semantics, no one wants an asshole like that in their party. In the end he never used it.

Bard is probably the class that "triggers" me the most when I see them played wrong. Doesn't help that it used to be my main a long time ago. It just enables things you normally cant do as well. Pulling bigger trash pulls or more frequent big trash pulls with things such as Palisade and Nature's Minne. Back when I leveled my BRD with my friends tank through dungeons it was incredibly fun timing our two CDS together. On top of that you have MP/TP songs which basicially mean you'll never run out of the TP you need for those massive pulls.

Of course that's ignoring the best Bard ability ever, The Warden's Paean. Such an amazing ability in specific situations yet I can count on one hand how many times I've seen it over the years. It's basically another dispel but you can use it preemptively if you know something is coming up.

Such a fun class. If only it didn't give me wrist pains everytime Mage's Ballad is up.

[Onikaroshi]

Imo in high end content like Savage and Ultimate you should be playing the job and utilising it to it's best.

However in dungeons missing a positional or two isn't the end of the word. However not using big shit like Blood of the Dragon, RDM melee combo or Embolden, SMN dots or BRD songs then no.

Had a BRD the other day in Kugane castle who I asked to use songs and flat out refused saying he didn't need to. Well guess he didn't need to stay in my group when I kicked him then.

Oh, no doubt that you should at least press the buttons given to you. I mean... if you're not going to even bother trying then why play? Every job is viable if played properly, no job is viable if played by a shitter who can't even sing :P

[Deleted]

Has anyone thought that adding a 4th tank and a healer might actually help with the balance?
The addition of a 3rd tank and healer broke the balance because they tried to make them something in between the already existing ones and for the most part it did not work.
With the addition of 2 new ones they can literally have for example:
War and gunblade fullfilling the same job and PLD and DRK fullfilling the other and sch and dancer fullfiling 1 job and whm and ast the other.
I for one think it ll make things easier.
With 2 tanks and 2 healers it didnt really matter because one could be clearly better at one thing than the other but you d still need the 2 of them so you didnt really care because you re only competing with people of the same class as you.
Also I think healers are in a better spot rn just AST needs a slight nerf. He cant be outputing more raw healing and dps than the WHM while also providing an avg extra 1200 rdps with cards.
Also as for the healers part and the advice people are providing. It honestly depends on the content you re doing but I wont open the "healers need to dps" discussion again in this thread. People can do w/e the fuck they want but its been made clear plenty of times that IN THIS PARTICULAR GAME these classes are designed to dps as well as heal and same goes for the tanks.
If tanks outside of tanks stance are losing aggro with shirk being available in the game they are god fucking awful or the rest of the raid is never using their aggro reducing abilities like they should to maximize Rdps.

[Onikaroshi]

Has anyone thought that adding a 4th tank and a healer might actually help with the balance?
The addition of a 3rd tank and healer broke the balance because they tried to make them something in between the already existing ones and for the most part it did not work.
With the addition of 2 new ones they can literally have for example:
War and gunblade fullfilling the same job and PLD and DRK fullfilling the other and sch and dancer fullfiling 1 job and whm and ast the other.
I for one think it ll make things easier.
With 2 tanks and 2 healers it didnt really matter because one could be clearly better at one thing than the other but you d still need the 2 of them so you didnt really care because you re only competing with people of the same class as you.
Also I think healers are in a better spot rn just AST needs a slight nerf. He cant be outputing more raw healing and dps than the WHM while also providing an avg extra 1200 rdps with cards.
Also as for the healers part and the advice people are providing. It honestly depends on the content you re doing but I wont open the "healers need to dps" discussion again in this thread. People can do w/e the fuck they want but its been made clear plenty of times that IN THIS PARTICULAR GAME these classes are designed to dps as well as heal and same goes for the tanks.
If tanks outside of tanks stance are losing aggro with shirk being available in the game they are god fucking awful or the rest of the raid is never using their aggro reducing abilities like they should to maximize Rdps.

You are correct on that, like someone mentioned, WAR and SCH are basically requirements in a static because nothing else provides what they do, so if you match them with a new class you can have a mixture.

You can never get people to play tank and healer who don't want to, they really should just not worry about that and make sure they take care of the people who DO play them just as well as people who main DPS jobs.

[Melsiren]

You are correct on that, like someone mentioned, WAR and SCH are basically requirements in a static because nothing else provides what they do, so if you match them with a new class you can have a mixture.

Or, if Jobs do what WAR or SCH but better/worse in some way, the Meta shifts and now you have two community dubbed "bad" tanks/healers.

The issue has nothing to do with verity, it is a cultural and numbers issue.

If A+B> A+C, C+B, D+C... Then the community will always gravitate a opinion around that combination when it comes down to what the "good" and "bad" jobs are.

Maybe A+B=C+D, but I have my doubts. Mainly in the ability to make things truly balanced with out ruining feeling of the individual jobs, and the culture of the FF14 community.

[Onikaroshi]

Or, if Jobs do what WAR or SCH but better/worse in some way, the Meta shifts and now you have two community dubbed "bad" tanks/healers.

The issue has nothing to do with verity, it is a cultural and numbers issue.

If A+B> A+C, C+B, D+C... Then the community will always gravitate a opinion around that combination when it comes down to what the "good" and "bad" jobs are.

Maybe A+B=C+D, but I have my doubts. Mainly in the ability to make things truly balanced with out ruining feeling of the individual jobs, and the culture of the FF14 community.

There will always be "community dubbed bad" of anything. It'd be worse if they never added things because the community might dub them "bad".