Is WoW dying.. or are Mmorpgs dying ?

[Doomislav]

MMORPGs aren't dying, they are fading away. There is a new generation that wants there own "WoW" and will get it eventually. Pokemon GO was big, so maybe the next thing will be augmented reality in their generation. We shall see. As to the rest of us holding on to the MMORPG genre, well Change is a part of existence. Embrace it and move forward, or fight it and become a relic of a failed past idea. Time moves on and has no patience for those who demand that it stops.

[Deleted]

Ideas don't mean anything without the money to back them and investors aren't keen on endeavors that don't have a proven track record of being profitable. I'm sure there are plenty of developers who've had great ideas and were never allowed to implement them, Wildstar is an example of that. I also believe that WoW's being held back by 'old school' devs who aren't particularly interested in modernizing the genre any further despite being in the best position to do so.

MMOs aren't any different than anything else. Look at how many rejection letters authors who've gone on to sell billions of dollars worth of books received before anyone would publish them. There's no 'secret formula', it's people and ideas being blocked by money and management.

Thats exactly why i said they need courage I agree

[miwonehema]

The genre is not the problem. Contrary to popular belief, people will play a game so long as its good.

WoW's quality has been plummeting for years. It should come as no shock that the majority of its playerbase left.

I miss golden age quality, with servers being down for days and bosses being bugged for months. period of best growth too

[Kallisto]

Thats exactly why i said they need courage I agree

courage in contrary to business. Who in their right mind would go "I could spend money on this and get nothing back. Or I can continue with what I am doing and be able to bring in money for myself and family."

Before you go "They have enough money." There is no such thing as enough money.

[Deleted]

courage in contrary to business. Who in their right mind would go "I could spend money on this and get nothing back. Or I can continue with what I am doing and be able to bring in money for myself and family."

Before you go "They have enough money." There is no such thing as enough money.

People used to make games out of passion. Movies also.
Back in the day.

Nowadays not so much IMO.

But if you think about it, in the MMORPG's case.
If they make "what would bring money to myself and family" means a WoW clone....which means....no money in the end

Or maybe im wrong and wow clones still bring in the money. idk

In movies, yes, the clones bring in the money. Its disgusting

[Kallisto]

People used to make games out of passion. Movies also.
Back in the day.

Outside a few this never happened ever. This "made it out of love." is a myth like "it was better back in the day."

Every game that had a monetary element next to it was made with this in mind first and foremost. "Can it make me money." That's it. Everything else comes second. Don't delude yourself. This includes games made under the name Silicone and Synapse.

[Deleted]

Outside a few this never happened ever. This "made it out of love." is a myth like "it was better back in the day."

Every game that had a monetary element next to it was made with this in mind first and foremost. "Can it make me money." That's it. Everything else comes second. Don't delude yourself. This includes games made under the name Silicone and Synapse.

You really have no faith in humanity do you?
I dont blame you. At all.

But its crazy to believe everyone in this world only makes projects "to sell" intead of making a project because you think its cool personally.

If every soul on this planet made entertainment products "to sell" or "for the money"...i would end it all.

[Kudos]

I was one of them, I loved everything Warcraft, and WoW was my first MMO, and I haven't seriously tried any other MMO since then.

I've tried quite a few. I always returned to Wow though. Part of that could be time invested but it's also mostly about where my friends are.

I played Age of Conan, Guild Wars 2, Star Wars the Old Republic (which I really liked), Wildstar and a little bit of Elder Scrolls Online.

It's hard for a new MMO. I think about Swtor and Age of Conan. In both of these games you had people complaining because things weren't like Wow. Oh. Guild chat in Age of Conan was pink - complain it isn't green like Wow. (seriously happened - and they changed it). Complain that there isn't as much content as Wow (which had multiple expansions at this stage). Complain there aren't enough classes. Complain there aren't as many raids. Complain it isn't hardcore enough. Complain it doesn't cater for casuals. Complain, complain, complain.

[Charge me Doctor]

tl;dr other genres going multiplayer appealing to the social aspect of an mmo, and the intimidating nature of starting fresh in wow have helped drop numbers.

Most multiplayer games simply use matchmaking, it's incomparable with social aspect of mmorpg. I would argue that wow became less of itself and more of these multiplayer games (like many big companies like to copy what other big companies do when they meet a success and expect success themselves but instead they succ ass) and started falling apart. Intimidation nature of starting fresh in wow goes from competitiveness, it never was as hard to get into wow as it is now. All you needed to do was to get into a guild, now you have to meet certain expectations, and to do so you have to do your research and train. It's more of a second job, than a "i guess i'll farm 300 cloth in SM and probably help some randoms who came here to do it in exchange for all cloth dropped".

[Melsiren]

Are MMO RPGs dying?: No.

Are MMO RPGS in a decline?: Absolutely.

Just a simple reminder, Everquest peaked at 550k subscribers and was considered wildly successful. These days half a million subs seems like a failed MMO, because Warcraft has set a crazy standard for what we consider successful when it comes to MMOs.

MMO RPGs do die, and many more MMO RPGs will die, but don't confuse the fad fading away with the death of the entire genre. This is not exclusive to MMO RPGs, the same trend can be seen in RTS, which still exists even if it is a shadow of its former self.

[arkanon]

Most multiplayer games simply use matchmaking, it's incomparable with social aspect of mmorpg. I would argue that wow became less of itself and more of these multiplayer games (like many big companies like to copy what other big companies do when they meet a success and expect success themselves but instead they succ ass) and started falling apart. Intimidation nature of starting fresh in wow goes from competitiveness, it never was as hard to get into wow as it is now. All you needed to do was to get into a guild, now you have to meet certain expectations, and to do so you have to do your research and train. It's more of a second job, than a "i guess i'll farm 300 cloth in SM and probably help some randoms who came here to do it in exchange for all cloth dropped".

Disagree on all points. Firstly, you are underplaying things like steam, discord, xboxlive and other platforms and their ability to help build strong gaming communities and friendships that are started or grown in game. Meet someone you get along great with in a game of L4D2? throw him a steam friend request. having a great game of BF4 or For Honor with a random dude and chatting on the mic? add a friend request.

The intimidation of starting fresh in wow has NOTHING to do with competitiveness. i honestly have no idea where you would get such a crazy idea. The intimidation, as i clearly stated, is from looking at the vast array of content ahead of you before you can even get to what is the current version. 14+ years of content you need to churn through just to play the current version.

I want you to imagine if you decided, as a 16yo lad, that you wanted to get into Madden. But to play the latest and greatest madden, you had to start at madden 98, and complete the career mode of every single title between then and now. Now imagine you are from Somalia and have absolutely no idea of any of the rules of the NFL, you dont know anyone who plays Madden, and the direct competitor is "oil tanker pirate", which all your friends are playing, and there is no leveling at all, you just turn up and jump on the boat with your skinny mates and off you go. Oh, and OTP is free and you dont even have to buy it.

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I've tried quite a few. I always returned to Wow though. Part of that could be time invested but it's also mostly about where my friends are.

I played Age of Conan, Guild Wars 2, Star Wars the Old Republic (which I really liked), Wildstar and a little bit of Elder Scrolls Online.

It's hard for a new MMO. I think about Swtor and Age of Conan. In both of these games you had people complaining because things weren't like Wow. Oh. Guild chat in Age of Conan was pink - complain it isn't green like Wow. (seriously happened - and they changed it). Complain that there isn't as much content as Wow (which had multiple expansions at this stage). Complain there aren't enough classes. Complain there aren't as many raids. Complain it isn't hardcore enough. Complain it doesn't cater for casuals. Complain, complain, complain.

I played SWTOR quite seriously, both the world release and started fresh on oceanic. I invested a LOT of time into SWTOR. It had mind boggling potential, and we still, to this day, laugh about deaths on SOA and shit like that. We also cringe at the engine, the loading screens, the AH, and most of the in game features. We also miss Htt ball massively and had a blast in there.

[Stardrift]

The MMORPG community devolved into a grumpy old man who's pissed because there's nobody around to change his shit filled pants for him.

Seriously. Just a bunch of fuckers looking to shit on anything and everything because that's what gets them off. I mean, just take a peak at the WoW lore forums here. Nothing but people grasping at straws just to cry.

The genre is dead and has been for a long, long time. People played EQ and WoW for the first time, became amazed and enthralled by wonder, and then grew up.

Now they scrape at the bottom of the pan to look for that tiny bit of magic they once felt years ago, but never succeeding to find it.

MMOs are something they're used to now. And they don't realize it's not the games, it's them.

[Charge me Doctor]

Disagree on all points. Firstly, you are underplaying things like steam, discord, xboxlive and other platforms and their ability to help build strong gaming communities and friendships that are started or grown in game. Meet someone you get along great with in a game of L4D2? throw him a steam friend request. having a great game of BF4 or For Honor with a random dude and chatting on the mic? add a friend request.

The intimidation of starting fresh in wow has NOTHING to do with competitiveness. i honestly have no idea where you would get such a crazy idea. The intimidation, as i clearly stated, is from looking at the vast array of content ahead of you before you can even get to what is the current version. 14+ years of content you need to churn through just to play the current version.

I want you to imagine if you decided, as a 16yo lad, that you wanted to get into Madden. But to play the latest and greatest madden, you had to start at madden 98, and complete the career mode of every single title between then and now. Now imagine you are from Somalia and have absolutely no idea of any of the rules of the NFL, you dont know anyone who plays Madden, and the direct competitor is "oil tanker pirate", which all your friends are playing, and there is no leveling at all, you just turn up and jump on the boat with your skinny mates and off you go. Oh, and OTP is free and you dont even have to buy it.

Oh i believe that random matchmaking consists mostly of toxicity and bile. Communities - yes, they do exist, but most of them aren't what you are describing,.. I'll repeat it - a community and a game with random matchmaking are different things, communities may or may not build outside of the game and often are quite small impact for the game itself, while random matchmaking are more "mobile"-ish feature of quickly getting what you want and never having to interact with people.

You don't need to finish 14+ years of content to get to current endgame. That's ridiculous argument, because it's a lie. All you need to do is to reach 120 on any of your characters - boom, hello endgame content. You also have an option to do whatever outdated content you want, if you wish so.

Yeah, i can imagine that, but it has nothing to do with reality of things.

[Deleted]

give it a few years and it will be World of Warcraft - VR - now that will be immense, ( if they get it right )

Given the motion sickness issues that VR has hardore raiders will have to keep a puke bucket next to their pee bottle. :P

[jakeic]

If anyone had the secret magical formula for the next big hit in MMO's it would have already been made.
We just need to wait for a company with 1) courage 2) brilliant minds.

Could take years sadly. Maybe i wont even be alive to see it

It's not a secret. I want a game where what I do matters, like in Lineage 2 there were castle sieges that helped determined where and what you farmed as well as things like your reputation and guild also determined where you could go. I would like the gear and levels I obtain to be reflected in how capable I am, like in TBC where obtaining the best gear was part of being the best player. I would like a reasonable amount of complexity, League of Legends allows for min/maxing but offers choices with no clear best, at the same time you can wing it and not be completely screwed. I would like a large and varied world with dangers, during vanilla WoW there were areas you couldn't go alone which was especially true while leveling. I want a game with no micro transactions if it means $20 a month subscription I don't care, everything should only be obtained through playing, games are meant to be played and not paid, even for just cosmetics.

That's a rough outline, it isn't what everyone wants, but the thing is MMORPGs aren't for everyone, if a game built around most of those principles doesn't interest you then you want something other than an MMORPG. Short of hitting every point, I would settle for a game built upon the ideals of vanilla WoW.

[D3athsting]

Given the motion sickness issues that VR has hardore raiders will have to keep a puke bucket next to their pee bottle. :P

Motion sickness is caused by low fps/stuttering inside rift, i myself have no problem doing 1h races with rift, with that said there are still years to go before we can clearly see all elements of wow ui in vr

[Whistl3r]

Everything is a day closer to ending.

[kamuimac]

You really have no faith in humanity do you?
I dont blame you. At all.

But its crazy to believe everyone in this world only makes projects "to sell" intead of making a project because you think its cool personally.

If every soul on this planet made entertainment products "to sell" or "for the money"...i would end it all.

oh boy you must be eating all all marketing bs that is served to you from all companies that only goal is making $$$$.

- - - Updated - - -

Are MMO RPGs dying?: No.

Are MMO RPGS in a decline?: Absolutely.

Just a simple reminder, Everquest peaked at 550k subscribers and was considered wildly successful. These days half a million subs seems like a failed MMO, because Warcraft has set a crazy standard for what we consider successful when it comes to MMOs.

MMO RPGs do die, and many more MMO RPGs will die, but don't confuse the fad fading away with the death of the entire genre. This is not exclusive to MMO RPGs, the same trend can be seen in RTS, which still exists even if it is a shadow of its former self.

this is something which comes to my mind very often . about how unrealisting standards people have towards how many people "need to " play wow.

wow would be perfeckly healthy game even if it had only 100-200k players and thus reduced number of servers because lets be honest - most of players want to play in "prime time" anyway . so it doesnt matter if game has 200k or 20 mln players - you as player playing in prime time will next see 99% of them anyway . so why do you care .

regardless of this WoD was the proof that wow has stable base of 2-3 mln players who will never leave no matter how bad the game will be. for 1 simple reason - they invested way to much time to ever let it go. if someone played this game for 1/3 or 1/4 th of his "conscius" life he wont let it go lets be honest.

[Deleted]

It's not a secret. I want a game where what I do matters, like in Lineage 2 there were castle sieges that helped determined where and what you farmed as well as things like your reputation and guild also determined where you could go. I would like the gear and levels I obtain to be reflected in how capable I am, like in TBC where obtaining the best gear was part of being the best player. I would like a reasonable amount of complexity, League of Legends allows for min/maxing but offers choices with no clear best, at the same time you can wing it and not be completely screwed. I would like a large and varied world with dangers, during vanilla WoW there were areas you couldn't go alone which was especially true while leveling. I want a game with no micro transactions if it means $20 a month subscription I don't care, everything should only be obtained through playing, games are meant to be played and not paid, even for just cosmetics.

That's a rough outline, it isn't what everyone wants, but the thing is MMORPGs aren't for everyone, if a game built around most of those principles doesn't interest you then you want something other than an MMORPG. Short of hitting every point, I would settle for a game built upon the ideals of vanilla WoW.

That would be a nice MMO

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oh boy you must be eating all all marketing bs that is served to you from all companies that only goal is making $$$$.

Yeah sure, all artists in the world are driven by money /rolleyes

Want an example? I draw every month and never made a buck out of drawing. I do it because i love it.
Maybe if i was a pro i would start asking for money.
But what would bring me that point...would be passion.

Probably never gonna reach that point though im a newbie

[Halefire94]

MMOs are dying because MMOs have been moving away from what made MMORPGs great to begin with. The sense of exploration, the journey of leveling your character, the focus on more things other than end game, and the ability to hide the "treadmill" of the gear grind.

I don't believe the "people just don't have time anymore!" People do have time. Old School Runescape is more popular now than it was in 2007. WoW Classic announcement has been met with huge praise from the industry, and will be extremely successful.

No one is playing MMOs anymore because they have turned into predatory skinner boxes with a thin veil of gameplay over them. Those are not fun to play, and MMOs main audience, neckbeards and hardcore gamers, hate these trends. So they dedicate time in other games.

As a popular streamer once said- the neckbeards are still there. The hardcore gamers want an MMO. Its just they are waiting for the right one. Maybe Classic will be that.