Method unable to kill G'huun

[Battlebeard]

We sell 7/8m for 2 weeks now. We killed ghuun 3 times and we stopped. Almost noone needs loot from it and its cancer to boost there. We prefer x2 runs 7/8. Majority of guilds dont kill ghuun anymore.

Really, 7/8 Mythic sells? I would have guessed most people would want mythic boost for the Cutting Edge achiv and not for the gear :O

[HCLM]

Yeah nerfing the hardest difficulty in the game when there’s already LFR/normal/heroic is a bit insane. Ofc it’ll never stop but it’s just dumb. If guilds can’t clear mythic then that’s fine, that’s why there’s multiple other difficulties. Think some nerfs are okay but making certain fights literal loot pinatas is ridiculous. Those nerfs in mythrax are insane, completely different fight than it was a few weeks ago.

Maybe they need a specific amount of guilds to clear each difficulty to consider spending the resources on them? Idk, pretty lame though when the nerfs are so large they turn the fight into something much easier and different.

This is the main reason why I am dropping raiding from time to time. What's the point of wiping on boss fot X days if few weeks later the same boss may become faceroll fight.

[Teaon]

This is the main reason why I am dropping raiding from time to time. What's the point of wiping on boss fot X days if few weeks later the same boss may become faceroll fight.

there are stuff that called "ranks" "guild ranks" "region ranks" "world wide ranks" "achiev dates"

you know these right?

[Tehterokkar]

if they could just delete phase 2, that'd be appreciated. what a master class in shitty boss design. between spell queuing making no sense (even if you always push p1 at whatever timing you decide is best), dps/hps being completely irrelevant before p3, and random wipes due to triple boil spawn in the same area, i can't believe all we got from killing him was a shitty title. also why the fuck can't the gibbering horror move while he's casting? at least now selling CE should be a far easier idea to entertain.

This is the biggest gripe I have with the boss.

Nothing except doing orbs fast matters in P1 and P2. There is no natural speed progress throughout farm period, P1 and P2 always last the same amount of time

And then in last phase you can get completely cucked by Boil RNG and have them always spawn in 1 or 2 quadrants of the room, making the people with no debuff run a marathon(if they even have speed boosts available) across the room while a Wave or Dance might be happening. Especially those Boil spawns where 2 are literally touching each other, who thought this was good game design?

At least next week you only have 2 boils so this shit mechanic is not an issue anymore.

[Marrilaife]

Yeah nerfing the hardest difficulty in the game when there’s already LFR/normal/heroic is a bit insane. Ofc it’ll never stop but it’s just dumb. If guilds can’t clear mythic then that’s fine, that’s why there’s multiple other difficulties. Think some nerfs are okay but making certain fights literal loot pinatas is ridiculous. Those nerfs in mythrax are insane, completely different fight than it was a few weeks ago.

Maybe they need a specific amount of guilds to clear each difficulty to consider spending the resources on them? Idk, pretty lame though when the nerfs are so large they turn the fight into something much easier and different.

More people seeing the content is always good, you people react as if the nerfs made mythic easier than heroic. If you think so, feel free to pug it, it's been x-realm for a few weeks now. Patch is coming in less than a month, Uldir is old content already. Imo no point mythic even existing if less than 1000 guilds clear it.

Even if we believe the rumour there's 1,5 mil subs left (even though it's been said to be fake), currently we had a bit over 500 guilds clear Uldir. That's how much, maybe 12k people? That's not even 1%. And if we suspect sub numbers are actually more like 3-5 mil than 1,5, that gives even worse picture. Designing a content for sub 1% minority is a waste.

[Alphatorg]

Yeah nerfing the hardest difficulty in the game when there’s already LFR/normal/heroic is a bit insane. Ofc it’ll never stop but it’s just dumb. If guilds can’t clear mythic then that’s fine, that’s why there’s multiple other difficulties. Think some nerfs are okay but making certain fights literal loot pinatas is ridiculous. Those nerfs in mythrax are insane, completely different fight than it was a few weeks ago.

Maybe they need a specific amount of guilds to clear each difficulty to consider spending the resources on them? Idk, pretty lame though when the nerfs are so large they turn the fight into something much easier and different.

Maybe they already nerfed the encounter each week via ilvl increase and array stacks? And doing some direct nerfs after those progressive indirect nerfs have been maxed out is just more of the same?
It's also not that hard to understand that some guilds fall between the categories of nhc/hc/m and Blizzard want to offer everyone a somewhat smooth progression path instead of people hitting brick walls.
If you're a better raid you have your kill achievement to prove that, no need to lock people out of content that guilds have had on farm for months.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah nerfing the hardest difficulty in the game when there’s already LFR/normal/heroic is a bit insane. Ofc it’ll never stop but it’s just dumb. If guilds can’t clear mythic then that’s fine, that’s why there’s multiple other difficulties. Think some nerfs are okay but making certain fights literal loot pinatas is ridiculous. Those nerfs in mythrax are insane, completely different fight than it was a few weeks ago.

Maybe they need a specific amount of guilds to clear each difficulty to consider spending the resources on them? Idk, pretty lame though when the nerfs are so large they turn the fight into something much easier and different.

Blizzard has been very open and clear about this. If people hit to big a wall where they can't progress anymore they will quit, and most won't come back next tier. So content is gradually nerfed to keep people progressing and engaged with the game because Blizzard is a business.

This is the main reason why I am dropping raiding from time to time. What's the point of wiping on boss fot X days if few weeks later the same boss may become faceroll fight.

Because you enjoy learning to overcome a challenge?

I find statements like this really strange. Why does someone completing an easier task lessen your enjoyment of the game? What is it that your playing the game for?

[Thestuff1992]

Blizzard has been very open and clear about this. If people hit to big a wall where they can't progress anymore they will quit, and most won't come back next tier. So content is gradually nerfed to keep people progressing and engaged with the game because Blizzard is a business.

Because you enjoy learning to overcome a challenge?

I find statements like this really strange. Why does someone completing an easier task lessen your enjoyment of the game? What is it that your playing the game for?

Just gonna respond to both parts even though the 2nd wasn’t directed at me.

Firstly, I know their reasoning I just dislike it. If people hit a wall you either move forwards or backwards. I think that’s completely fine. We have 4 difficulties in this game god forbid one of them actually remain hard. Mythrax is almost a completely different fight than it was a few weeks ago mechanically and it’s just way easier as well with the new round of nerfs.

I mean realistically I don’t think there should be anything else done aside from simple tuning (not what these nerfs are, they’re mechanic changes along with heavy nerfs) when we have 4 difficulties in this game already.

Now for the second part there, I kind of get it. It’s not about someone completing an easier task, it’s about the task you completed being made easier over time with heavy handed nerfs and literal mechanic changes. If you aren’t in a top 100 alliance/horde guild for famed, there’s hardly any reason to be in a guild that gets CE 2 months before the next tier over one that gets it a week before unless you’re aiming to move up.

To break that down a bit: It isn’t about what other people are doing and whether it’s essier or harder, it’s about what you’re doing. Why get CE 2 months before the raid tier is over when you can get it 1 week before but have the fights be a whole lot less stressful? It kind of takes meaning away from beating the fights how they originally were after the simple tuning fixes.

Aside from that, these nerfs and mechanic changes allow really crappy guilds to get CE because the fights are actually a lot different and much easier. Boil nerf on ghuun makes p2 so much easier and I’m positive there will be a health nerf later on to make the dps check non existent as well. The last 2 rounds of nerfs for mythrax make the fight completely different and much easier. Fetid nerfs make it a loot piñata. Don’t think mythic needs to be made easier for these bad guilds that can’t do it otherwise when there’s 3 other difficulties in the game.

[antelope591]

Just gonna respond to both parts even though the 2nd wasn’t directed at me.

Firstly, I know their reasoning I just dislike it. If people hit a wall you either move forwards or backwards. I think that’s completely fine. We have 4 difficulties in this game god forbid one of them actually remain hard. Mythrax is almost s completely different fight than it was a few weeks ago mechanically and it’s just way easier as well with the new round of nerfs.

I mean realistically I don’t think there should be anything else done aside from simple tuning (not what these nerfs are, they’re mechanic changes along with heavy nerfs) when we have 4 difficulties in this game already.

Now for the second part there, I kind of get it. It’s not about someone completing an easier task, it’s about the task you completed being made easier over time with heavy handed nerfs and literal mechanic changes. If you aren’t in a top 100 alliance/horde guild for famed, there’s hardly any reason to be in a guild that gets CE 2 months before the next tier over one that gets it a week before unless you’re aiming to move up.

To break that down a bit: It isn’t about what other people are doing and whether it’s essier or harder, it’s about what you’re doing. Why get CE 2 months before the raid tier is over when you can get it 1 week before but have the fights be a whole lot less stressful? It kind of takes meaning away from beating the fights how they originally were after the simple tuning fixes.

4 difficulties is not an argument when 3 of them are faceroll and only 1 is actually hard. Also only 500 guilds killing G'huun at this point worldwide is quite low and obviously Blizz feels the same. Its simple math.

[Thestuff1992]

@Thestuff1992 remember that blizzard is a business. People that can barely edge killing the hardest content will stay hooked a lot longer than if they hit a brick wall and don't make progress for a month.

Yeah I get that and I do understand my comments disregard that fact. I’m also positive they need a certain amount of players in mythic to even justify spending the resources. I just don’t like it especially when there’s 4 total difficulties already. If a few people quit because they hit a brick wall and don’t feel like moving past it then that’s fine for the sake of the game imo but maybe that’s bad business idk. Just dislike it a lot.

- - - Updated - - -

4 difficulties is not an argument when 3 of them are faceroll and only 1 is actually hard. Also only 500 guilds killing G'huun at this point worldwide is quite low and obviously Blizz feels the same. Its simple math.

You haven’t done any math here so I’m gonna assume you left that for me to do which is fine. As I stated in my earlier post I understand their reasons for these heavy handed nerfs I just disagree with them.

If the other 3 difficulties are completely faceroll than maybe there’s an underlying issue. Why do we need 3 difficulties that are all faceroll? Remove some or change them up a bit so that isn’t the case. Making everything faceroll including a majority of mythic when the other 3 difficulties are already faceroll as you’ve said sounds fucking horrible to me man.

Again, I get that they do what they need to as a business. I just don’t really believe it’s a good thing. Yes, more guilds clearing mythic and participating in it so blizzard can justify the resources spent on it, however there’s plenty of guilds that can clear it with these ridiculous heavy handed nerfs. I’m really surprised we don’t see more guilds clearing it which brings me to my last point (read last paragraph).

These new nerfs make the 2 hardest bosses quite easy. The boil nerf is huge and I guarantee you we’ll see a health nerf soon to get rid of the dps check which is the only other hard part of ghuun making both bosses very easy especially when compared to previous iterations.

You also have to keep in mind it isn’t “simple math” as we can’t really tell how many people are playing right? If 1500 guilds cleared Nighthold or whatever previous raid you can think of in the same time span Uldir has been out for (by the time it’s over) and only 700 guilds have cleated uldir, that doesn’t mean uldir was just harder overall. It could easily mean less players and less guilds are around overall.

[Revamp Man]

Seeing how Jaina doesn't die - keep waiting.

Limit standing a chance....I haven't laughed so hard in a long time
Outside of starter raids I don't think it has been close for a few expansions

- - - Updated - - -

4 difficulties is not an argument when 3 of them are faceroll and only 1 is actually hard. Also only 500 guilds killing G'huun at this point worldwide is quite low and obviously Blizz feels the same. Its simple math.

I don't think I know anyone outside of those annoying try hard that do the whole "omg your welcome for the carry" that run 4 difficulties
Heck I run maybe 1-2

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

For all we know Method are spending time on gearing up alts and mains for the next tier, PTR testing the next tier and things like that. Mythic+ 5mans does give better gear return than raids. Also guilds like Method usually go really hardcore for a month and then goes chill for the next 2-3 months, which there are many reasons for. Paragon, the old kings, raided really hardcore and "required" their raiders to take time off work etc to raid and after the tier was down they didn't have to play as much.

[chrisnumbers]

Why is this thread that's based on a lie still going?

[Marrilaife]

If the other 3 difficulties are completely faceroll than maybe there’s an underlying issue. Why do we need 3 difficulties that are all faceroll? Remove some or change them up a bit so that isn’t the case. Making everything faceroll including a majority of mythic when the other 3 difficulties are already faceroll as you’ve said sounds fucking horrible to me man.

The skill disparity in the community is so staggeringly broad you have no idea. All the difficulties have a point and we could have a couple extra and still not exhaust every possible bracket of player skill to have a mode tailored to each. I can tell you, the difference between guild ranked world top 20, top 100, top 500 and 2000 is super massive, even though all of them "raid mythic". The no. 2000 probably won't finish it though unless it's some super easy tier or super long one with tons of nerfs. But they will clear at least 50-80% of mythic still. EACH of these guilds, yes even the no. 2000 one will clear heroic under a month, and probably within a week or 2. They're NOT the intended audience for heroic because otherwise they'd run out of content in 1 month, that content that is planned to last 5 months or 77 weeks...

The issue is there's so few people up top there you can't really divide them further into mythic, extra mythic and hyper mythic, even though the skill gaps between top and bottom is unimaginable to people who just sit in their little bubble and never mingle with the rest of the playerbase outside of their little circle.

So all these players are lumped into "mythic" together. Some finish it within 2 weeks like method or limit, some won't even finish it when it's over... BUT they finished heroic long ago, so they'd run out of content otherwise.

Tbh I've NEVER seen a top guild complain about nerfs. They're usually done with the content, bored with it, boosting / split running the shit out of it, and they really don't care if guild no. 2000 takes a glimmer of the glory, all they care is their farm run goes faster. It's usually some people from a guild ranked 600 complaining that a guild no. 1400 eats from the same table as they do, and how dare Blizzard allow it.

If someone wants to game the system and make a guild that will only attempt to clear mythic in the last month of cutting edge achievement availability to have it "easier", they're free to do so.

[Thestuff1992]

The skill disparity in the community is so staggeringly broad you have no idea. All the difficulties have a point and we could have a couple extra and still not exhaust every possible bracket of player skill to have a mode tailored to each. I can tell you, the difference between guild ranked world top 20, top 100, top 500 and 2000 is super massive, even though all of them "raid mythic". The no. 2000 probably won't finish it though unless it's some super easy tier or super long one with tons of nerfs. But they will clear at least 50-80% of mythic still. EACH of these guilds, yes even the no. 2000 one will clear heroic under a month, and probably within a week or 2. They're NOT the intended audience for heroic because otherwise they'd run out of content in 1 month, that content that is planned to last 5 months or 77 weeks...

The issue is there's so few people up top there you can't really divide them further into mythic, extra mythic and hyper mythic, even though the skill gaps between top and bottom is unimaginable to people who just sit in their little bubble and never mingle with the rest of the playerbase outside of their little circle.

So all these players are lumped into "mythic" together. Some finish it within 2 weeks like method or limit, some won't even finish it when it's over... BUT they finished heroic long ago, so they'd run out of content otherwise.

Tbh I've NEVER seen a top guild complain about nerfs. They're usually done with the content, bored with it, boosting / split running the shit out of it, and they really don't care if guild no. 2000 takes a glimmer of the glory, all they care is their farm run goes faster. It's usually some people from a guild ranked 600 complaining that a guild no. 1400 eats from the same table as they do, and how dare Blizzard allow it.

If someone wants to game the system and make a guild that will only attempt to clear mythic in the last month of cutting edge achievement availability to have it "easier", they're free to do so.

I’m not claiming to be from a top guild, I’m only top 300 which isn’t anything crazy. My main complaint isn’t that a guild ranked 2500 gets to clear mythic, my complaint is that these nerfs are so damn heavy handed they actually change the mechanics of said fight. Recleared 7/8M this week and mythrax was so unbelievably easy after melee changes and with these new nerfs it’ll be even easier. It also changed a lot about the fight especially from an Hpal PoV.

I’m also not saying “how dare blizz allow this!!” I’ve said multiple times already I understand their reasoning and need to do this. I probably only understand half of it but obviously enough people have to clear mythic or participate for them to deem it worthy of dedicating resources too. I get all of that. I just dislike the way they’re nerfing fights honestly, that’s my main complaint.

Aside from array nerfing the raid as a whole, these nerfs actually change bosses mechanically and I dislike that. I don’t think a guild at 2500 should be doing a fairly different fight than a guild at 300. If it’s made easier through simple add HP nerfs, cast time increases (on beam for example) that’s not too bad. However boil change and melee change/add fixate change on mythrax change the fight(s) fairly heavily.

It absolutely makes my life on farm easier and that’s a huge bonus but I still dislike that any guild after these changes is going to be facing a different fight than a guild at 300. This is easily avoidable

[c313]

Why is this thread that's based on a lie still going?

Because its not. It'd be one thing if they actually have killed each week since their WF kill. But they haven't.

[Marrilaife]

It absolutely makes my life on farm easier and that’s a huge bonus but I still dislike that any guild after these changes is going to be facing a different fight than a guild at 300. This is easily avoidable

At the price of keeping half the melee roster benched? No thanks. And I don't even play a melee dps (I play a tank).

Some fights were inherently flawed, for example the idea "carrying an orb on ghuun silences and pacifies you" was a bad concept that created a meta tactics where some specific gimnics were abused (warlock gateways, warlock / monk teleports, shadowstep / feral charge to monk statue from outside of restricted area), while many other "creative strategies" could not be employed (high mobility classes for example). That severely limited which classes had their "time to shine", and guilds without 4 warlocks were stuck in a dilemma how to get them in a world every other guild competes for this limited resource. A common solution was to get someone to play a warlock alt, especially if their main wasn't amazing for that fight. That's not really fun for anyone involved, including the "backup warlock" guy.

Tbh there were many other fights in the past where "nerfs" meant the fight became a tiny bit less discriminatory and that was a good thing. For example nerfs to Argus allowed guilds to stop relying on stacking immunities (removal of 3rd chain and at the same time making it go through immunity). This happened around the time about 100 guilds killed it already, so not exactly super early.

Removing 10% hp from Mythrax add will not make the fight different, it will just make it easier for guilds who parse lower than top ones.

Removing "4-5 melee tops or bust" restriction makes the fight easier, and also less cancer, so I'll take that. Especially for a boss that drops melee weapons!

At least Zul drops a dagger so all these Rogue alts can get a chance on it. Even though that's another clear example of design failure.

It's also quite understandable that a guild ranked 600 or something will not have the luxury of tailoring their comp in the same manner as top guilds do. I still remember Coven in Antorus and the massive difficulty drop when we benched as many melee as possible for as many warlocks / boomkins / spriests possible. The guild that cannot do these swaps will face higher difficulty even within similar skill level.

Fights like Fetid and Mythrax deserve to be thrashed by nerfs for the sole reason how oppressive they are for melee-heavy guilds. In a game that has 9 melee classes but only 6 ranged classes.

[KaPe]

Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't touch Zul. Sure, you don't "need" Rogues anymore, but looking at that boss damage meter is always disgusting. Poorly geared alts easily double the damage of main raiders because of how retarded Subtlety is there. I wonder if Blizzard actually intended for him to be this "race" to 40% before 3rd Crusher or that's just how things turned out with Crawgs and Rogues. Kinda like triangle formation on Ragnaros.

[Nizah]

Maybe we should reconsider who is the #1 guild as of today? Like seriously, the struggle is real:

e. I'm not talking about speeed but the fact hey have only killed G'huun TWICE.

easy there little troll, dont eat too fast you might choke

[precious]

Really, 7/8 Mythic sells? I would have guessed most people would want mythic boost for the Cutting Edge achiv and not for the gear :O

Believe it or not, 70-80% of our buyers have already the cutting edge (by just get boosted on ghhun) by other guilds that did boosts earlier than us, and now they just want to get all possible gear they can. Some simply dont care about achievs and want simply the gear. Plus im on a server that at least 10 guilds can boost fully and prices are getting hammered from the offers. Thas why we boost 3 buyers each time making 6 all together per week, which gives a decent amount of gold for us to get to next tier more comfortably.

Now after next weeks nerfs everyone and their mother will sell boosts. For reference we have some idiots on server selling 6/8 for 650k as we speak. Go figure what will happen next week.