[M+] what do you think should change for a better?

[NtflxnChill]

m+ is not a good fit for an mmo and is cancer. an mmo needs to be social but m+ trains people to be antisocial with a gogogo attitude instead of helping each other. it teaches and rewards toxic behavior. the first fix is get rid of the timer, but then its not m+ anymore.

Spoken like a true casual who has never completed anything past +2

[amaze123]

m+ is not a good fit for an mmo and is cancer. an mmo needs to be social but m+ trains people to be antisocial with a gogogo attitude instead of helping each other. it teaches and rewards toxic behavior. the first fix is get rid of the timer, but then its not m+ anymore.

This is so wrong. If in the far far future, if you play something higher than +2, you will learn, that you have to communicate alot and be very social to reach your goals.

[potis]

M+ are fine, players are horrible.

And Blizzard is disconnected from the actual level of the community.

They make M+ changes based on MDI rather than both fun, and the majority of the community,a pack shouldnt require 8 Interrupts/stuns to counter the first 10 seconds into the fight, which makes pugging non-fun and impossible.

Also, if the group i joined because of boredom or to help, wipes at some point, why am i wasting 2 minutes running from the entrance because you have it setup like that for MDI? Shrine is an example.

Luckily i have a few capable friends to do our weekly 10-12 without a hassle, but i will never ever bother to pug a M+ in BFA, the difficulty level compared to Legion ones is like 500% more, irrelevant for myself and the group i run with, but dear god, the horror if it was a pug.

Legion had 1-2 packs per dungeon that were dangerous and you could counter solo with a mix of stuns/interrupts as a Tank, making me not care as much, obviously talking 15-20 keys at the end, generally +2-3 max of whatever the reward of the period is, i would never waste my life on pointless stuff where there is no reward, got stuff to do.

BFA has 5-10 packs per dungeon that at least 2 more need to have a fucking clue in the party to clear without a hussle.

Not possible with the certain level of community, you simply cant trust them to do the right thing even for a simple +5.

And no way in hell i am gonna bother doing M+ on Wednesday to get a spot on the list to increase my "raider.io" in order to pug, i will just force my friends on Sunday/Monday

[Deleted]

Someone has no idea how statistics work.

Please explain how his understanding of statistics has to do with anything? I play on kazzak-horde, one of the biggest servers you ca possibly play on. As of today (Wednesday 00:15) you get r.io score for doing a +9 Tos (lowest) and +12 atal. If you are not able to finish keys like this (if your goal is to increase you're score) I honestly don't know what to tell you besides do lower keys and improve then we can talk again.

[ashblond]

remove the totally stupid concept of 100% enemy force.

redesign the mythic+ trash quantity, so that we need to kill every trash to reach the 100%, and there is no need to skip and no need to qq and blame over each other for not pulling enough or overpulling trash.

[melodramocracy]

Please explain how his understanding of statistics has to do with anything? I play on kazzak-horde, one of the biggest servers you ca possibly play on. As of today (Wednesday 00:15) you get r.io score for doing a +9 Tos (lowest) and +12 atal. If you are not able to finish keys like this (if your goal is to increase you're score) I honestly don't know what to tell you besides do lower keys and improve then we can talk again.

His quote was "if you played since the beginning of the expansion you have no excuse of not having good raider io, get gud". What's considered a "gud" io score, or any other sort of measurable completion rate is a moving target, is always going to be the upper % of participants, which means that most players will be excluded from having a "gud" score regardless of how well they play. Hence my statistics comment.

[Zoldor]

Trash mechanics in the Journal would be a nice addition.

Possibly having the timer flex a little depending on affix either direction.

With the current situation you really have to mass smash mobs, doing CC and long kites just isn't conducive to the timer so AE stun, extra interrupts, and mass AE is the preferred method of smashing M+ if you want to have any cushion for a mistake here or there.

only thing I dislike about io is I have to do some of the dungeons I loathe on any affix week just to get a good score and the score being affected by the top 100 leader board is a tad annoying. Who cares if I did a 9 in time but so did everyone else, doesn't mean I didn't do it in time. But that is part of the flaw of how io works and the information available to the addon. Hopefully a fix for this at some point from Blizzard's end (make the leaderboard larger etc).

[Tatahe]

1) less crying noobs who are progressing below +10 keys who want the game to give them more handholding, get the fuck out with that, all multiplayer games are swarmed with that, so its refreshing to have less of that in mythic+. Just learn to be less toxic/ ragey and focus on your own game.
2) some assistance from blizzard regarding lower end runs not being recorded, making it hard for entry lvl people to step in. Score similar to R.io in game would help, but which would also promote doing lesser keys in ultrafast manner, similarly to +13 on blizzcon.
3) better class balance. having a meta with 3 healers is fine, but 4.5 dps specs and 1 tank meta is not fine.
4) having people understand that nonmeta classes are not as terrible as they think. You can do up to +16 with guardian druids, shadowpriests and so on for sure.
5) greatly reduce dps potion crafting cost. If i want to go full tryhard and doublepot on every pull including trash, i would be paying about 20k per run just for potions.
6) greatly reduce sugar-crusted fish feast crafting cost. see 5.

Other than that, m+ is probably the only thing i enjoy in this game nowadays, so its in alright spot for me

I agree with you on the point 4 except for a guardian druid, they are actually trash. You can have any no meta dps and still do a 16 on time for sure, healers the s ame, even a resto shamy will do it, but tanks there is no way a Guardian druid is viable at this point. Any other tank is fine, druids are not.

[Irefusetodie]

My main content is raiding and M+ is there for additional content. I don't really care about pushing 19s or 20s but I don't mind doing 13-15s. The way trash in M+ is currently just saps most of the fun out of it for me. Legion M+ was much more fun to me. I think the enemy force % requirement is tighter tuned and trash simply has a lot more mechanics. I think the changes are great if you like to push keys and see how far you can go but, overall, the changes aren't great for the majority of the playerbase.

[Optio82]

remove the totally stupid concept of 100% enemy force.

redesign the mythic+ trash quantity, so that we need to kill every trash to reach the 100%, and there is no need to skip and no need to qq and blame over each other for not pulling enough or overpulling trash.

This is the biggest one for me. I agree 100%.

Zoning in and waiting as the tank uses an add-on to plot out the EXACT path the group has to take and EXACTLY what trash needs to be killed and needs to be skipped - is counter-intuitive to a group with pugs in it. It ruins the fun also. As someone will pull by accident a pack or two.

Timers are fine -- make the timer a straight-up kill the trash and bosses fast mechanic! Not a "HOW DO WE SKIP SHIT" mechanic, using all kinds of dumb tricks and techniques.

Also, less Caster trash - its stupid and stresses the whole group when the average pug group has maybe 1 person besides the tank that helps with interrupts. It just stresses the healers out for no good reason.

Re-look at the affixes as well. Some are so badly out of whack it is insane. Quaking out of combat? Stupid. Sometimes the same trash on some weeks places the affixes like Necro on the group then the next week that same trash doesn't add another affix. Lame. And yellow, no nameplate citters in a zone (looking at you Shrine of the Storm) dropping affix-related crap is beyond stupid.

M+ now, since BFA overall is sorta lame - has now become the Alt gearing up method and makes doing keys around 10-12 more painful for a pug -- especially when you join the group and you have little clue some under-geared alt is "hiding" in their group.

[Ealyssa]

m+ is not a good fit for an mmo and is cancer. an mmo needs to be social but m+ trains people to be antisocial with a gogogo attitude instead of helping each other. it teaches and rewards toxic behavior. the first fix is get rid of the timer, but then its not m+ anymore.

You just CAN NOT beat challenging level keys without discussion, preparation and communication aka being social. That's just no possible, period. Stop lying about something you didn't even try, it's pathetic.

[Mardy120]

I agree with you on the point 4 except for a guardian druid, they are actually trash. You can have any no meta dps and still do a 16 on time for sure, healers the s ame, even a resto shamy will do it, but tanks there is no way a Guardian druid is viable at this point. Any other tank is fine, druids are not.

Ive done 16s with a guardian druid... check raider io for guardian druid rankings please

[Dilbon]

M+ fits the MMO part but not RPG.

[Mardy120]

M+ fits the MMO part but not RPG.

maybe, but this whole game doesnt fit RPG part for years already

[Volitar]

Make trash less cancer.

[Autumn]

Remove all abilities to skip trash eg lock portal/invis potions etc in Mythic plus. Every piece of trash must be killed to finish the dungeon (obviously remove a lot of trash)

Balance the dungeons - the difference in difficulty between Serpent in KR and Rezan in AtalDazar is laughable on tyrannical.

High burst/aoe/mass stuns favour a few classes too much.

[TOM_RUS]

Nerf trash. In BFA it requires too much of interrupts, AOE stuns, CC and so on compared to Legion.

[Hoeth]

Nerf trash. In BFA it requires too much of interrupts, AOE stuns, CC and so on compared to Legion.

And in Legion too many bosses had unavoidable one-shot mechanics for classes/specs without really powerful defensive CDs. Get a +23 HoV tyrannical key? If you played 2/3 of the specs in the game you weren't getting past Hyrja.

They rightfully removed that stuff, but added other mechanics that require control and unique utility to deal with "optimally". The end effect is the same; a few specs are perceived as being superior and no one else gets to play.

I'm not sure how, or even if, they can fix this though. Remove the need for specific utility or defensive abilities and everything becomes a test of how fast you can cleave down trash. Keep the stuff in either be content to run ~10-15s or play one of the chosen classes/specs for the expansion.

[Aktec]

And in Legion too many bosses had unavoidable one-shot mechanics for classes/specs without really powerful defensive CDs. Get a +23 HoV tyrannical key? If you played 2/3 of the specs in the game you weren't getting past Hyrja.

They rightfully removed that stuff, but added other mechanics that require control and unique utility to deal with "optimally". The end effect is the same; a few specs are perceived as being superior and no one else gets to play.

I'm not sure how, or even if, they can fix this though. Remove the need for specific utility or defensive abilities and everything becomes a test of how fast you can cleave down trash. Keep the stuff in either be content to run ~10-15s or play one of the chosen classes/specs for the expansion.

The issue is that they took out stuff that affects 0.00001% of the playerbase (the 1 shots at extreme high keys) and put in stuff to affect everyone. Legion M+ was way more fun imo. Blizz should not balance around the very top end, if its broken for a very small minority of players but has positive connitations for the rest of the m+ population then thats fine.

[seasy]

M+ are fine, players are horrible.

And Blizzard is disconnected from the actual level of the community.

They make M+ changes based on MDI rather than both fun, and the majority of the community,a pack shouldnt require 8 Interrupts/stuns to counter the first 10 seconds into the fight, which makes pugging non-fun and impossible.

Also, if the group i joined because of boredom or to help, wipes at some point, why am i wasting 2 minutes running from the entrance because you have it setup like that for MDI? Shrine is an example.

Luckily i have a few capable friends to do our weekly 10-12 without a hassle, but i will never ever bother to pug a M+ in BFA, the difficulty level compared to Legion ones is like 500% more, irrelevant for myself and the group i run with, but dear god, the horror if it was a pug.

Legion had 1-2 packs per dungeon that were dangerous and you could counter solo with a mix of stuns/interrupts as a Tank, making me not care as much, obviously talking 15-20 keys at the end, generally +2-3 max of whatever the reward of the period is, i would never waste my life on pointless stuff where there is no reward, got stuff to do.

BFA has 5-10 packs per dungeon that at least 2 more need to have a fucking clue in the party to clear without a hussle.

Not possible with the certain level of community, you simply cant trust them to do the right thing even for a simple +5.

And no way in hell i am gonna bother doing M+ on Wednesday to get a spot on the list to increase my "raider.io" in order to pug, i will just force my friends on Sunday/Monday

This.
I really love the trash mechanics and yes some are really dangerous on high keys but there are usually ways around it.
Good use of cc and communication is key.
It brings back the social part of mmo not like pugs where there barely is any communication.
It would be really boring if you could just steamroll content without any communication.