Havoc, Reorigination Array, and Versatility

[neocount]

I've tried searching on this and I have not seen any posts on it, so here it goes.

I saw a chart recently, and I don't remember where now, that showed Versatility scaling better than any of the others. This made me wonder if it was worth it to loose a few points of item level to get Versatility up just enough to ensure my reorigination array buff is Versatility. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

[shaunika123]

sim yourself?

we wont be able to tell you the most optimal way of gearing your character entirely blind.

[neocount]

My question was more theoretical but here it is:

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...vqGFoNZjdVxWeL

[Guyv3r]

Unless you can maintain a high enough ilvl searching for Versatility pieces, I'm gonna say its probably not gonna be a good choice because Agility is still our best stat after Weapon DPS.

[Accendor]

I mean that really, really depends. E.g. if you can archieve this through simply chosing a lower itemlevel ring it is very likely worth it. In any other case it really depends on the pieces you want to replace and how many itemlevel you lose.
What you also have to consider: If you only break even in terms of DPS with a lower itemlevel, it is probably still worth doing because of the enhanced survivability versatility gives you.

[pay928]

My question was more theoretical but here it is:

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...vqGFoNZjdVxWeL

Being theoretical is pretyt pointless when you can just sim yourself and have computed values of the difference. Use https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear to see if it's worth it to trade out pieces or not.

[lollermittens]

After having finally installed SimCraft 3 weeks ago, I now sim every piece of gear I have using raidbots.com

Currently, my best stat after hitting 11%-14% haste is Agi> CR > Vers > Haste.

I'm approaching 30% CR and my DPS simming is close to 16k. Depending on what you have, CR is going to be the best for Havor, closely followed by Vers and then Haste since we really don't need that much Haste.

At the end of the day, make sure to download SimC and use raidbots.com then you don't have to rely on charts to figure out the best gear options for your char.

[Kirroth]

Good luck getting your Vers higher than any other secondary stat. The Heart of Azeroth only comes with Crit/Haste/Mastery on it. My HoA just hit 32 and that's a 249 point head start every other stat has on Vers. On top of that there's only a few Vers primary rings and none of them comes from Uldir.

Maybe if I was chain running my pick of Mythic10 Keystone dungeons I could assemble a set of Vers gear that wasn't a massive ilvl loss. But that's a lot of work for a rather small gain, really. Instead I just throw on my best Heroic Uldir gear with a scattering of titanforges from other sources and call it a day.

[Mardux]

Good luck getting your Vers higher than any other secondary stat. The Heart of Azeroth only comes with Crit/Haste/Mastery on it. My HoA just hit 32 and that's a 249 point head start every other stat has on Vers. On top of that there's only a few Vers primary rings and none of them comes from Uldir.

Maybe if I was chain running my pick of Mythic10 Keystone dungeons I could assemble a set of Vers gear that wasn't a massive ilvl loss. But that's a lot of work for a rather small gain, really. Instead I just throw on my best Heroic Uldir gear with a scattering of titanforges from other sources and call it a day.

Its really not hard to get vers array. My dh alt has vers behind only haste by a little under 100 points and that away with weapon enchant procs and food buff.

[Kirroth]

Its really not hard to get vers array. My dh alt has vers behind only haste by a little under 100 points and that away with weapon enchant procs and food buff.

I'm sure it's not hard on an alt. It's a lot harder to manage high Vers and ilvl 374 at the same time. Like I said, you need to be chain running max level Mythic+ dungeons to do it. If you're like me and mostly doing Heroic Uldir with just a little M+ on the side you're going to have much starker choices between stat selection and ilvl.

[Mardux]

I'm sure it's not hard on an alt. It's a lot harder to manage high Vers and ilvl 374 at the same time. Like I said, you need to be chain running max level Mythic+ dungeons to do it. If you're like me and mostly doing Heroic Uldir with just a little M+ on the side you're going to have much starker choices between stat selection and ilvl.

I guess its slightly easier for a 371 dh that has only run heroic uldir and does maybe 2-3 keys a week. But you definitely don't have to chain run keys if you pay attention to what gear your putting on.

[Accendor]

I'm sure it's not hard on an alt. It's a lot harder to manage high Vers and ilvl 374 at the same time. Like I said, you need to be chain running max level Mythic+ dungeons to do it. If you're like me and mostly doing Heroic Uldir with just a little M+ on the side you're going to have much starker choices between stat selection and ilvl.

... What? I never even thought about that this could be a problem at all, I'm sitting at 376 and I never had problems getting Versa array. I did not even try to optimize for it, I just put on the pieces that gave versatility because it always simmed the best. I did not even do a M+ for the last 3 weeks, not a single one. Before that I only ever did 1 M+ for 3 or 4 weeks in a row.
To be perfectly honest I was not even aware that the heart does not give versatility lol.

[Guyv3r]

... What? I never even thought about that this could be a problem at all, I'm sitting at 376 and I never had problems getting Versa array. I did not even try to optimize for it, I just put on the pieces that gave versatility because it always simmed the best. I did not even do a M+ for the last 3 weeks, not a single one. Before that I only ever did 1 M+ for 3 or 4 weeks in a row.
To be perfectly honest I was not even aware that the heart does not give versatility lol.

Link profile plz.

I got vers in most pieces and it's still my lowest stat.

[Mardux]

Link profile plz.

I got vers in most pieces and it's still my lowest stat.

Array goes off of rating, not %. And the only way vers can be your lowest stat is if you are stacking mastery, which is by far our worst stat.

[Kirroth]

I guess its slightly easier for a 371 dh that has only run heroic uldir and does maybe 2-3 keys a week.

If you're doing three M10 keys a week, that's more dungeons at a higher level than I am. Two or three max level M+ runs and a max level Cache every Tuesday means M+ is where the majority of your gear comes from. Which is very different from me, who is getting most of my gear from Heroic Uldir and maybe helping on a single M7 or M8 every two or three weeks. Uldir just doesn't have the gear variety.

So I stand by my point. Unless you're reliably running multiple max level Keystones every week, you're not going to do it with just Uldir gear.

ETA: We're kind of talking past each other due to differing standards, I think. I"m saying, "It can't be done with just raid gear, you need a lot of high level M+ gear to do it." And you're saying, "I did it on my DH, I just ran a lot of high level M+ and it was easy to do." So we're not really saying different things, we just have different ideas about what "a lot of high M+" is.

[Mardux]

If you're doing three M10 keys a week, that's more dungeons at a higher level than I am. Two or three max level M+ runs and a max level Cache every Tuesday means M+ is where the majority of your gear comes from. Which is very different from me, who is getting most of my gear from Heroic Uldir and maybe helping on a single M7 or M8 every two or three weeks. Uldir just doesn't have the gear variety.

So I stand by my point. Unless you're reliably running multiple max level Keystones every week, you're not going to do it with just Uldir gear.

ETA: We're kind of talking past each other due to differing standards, I think. I"m saying, "It can't be done with just raid gear, you need a lot of high level M+ gear to do it." And you're saying, "I did it on my DH, I just ran a lot of high level M+ and it was easy to do." So we're not really saying different things, we just have different ideas about what "a lot of high M+" is.

Sorry, but 8s and 9s aren't high level keys. And no, i didn't say that i ran a lot of high level m+. Im not sure why you wanted to read it that way (other than it doesn't refute your false statement).

It was easy to do, but it doesn't require you to run "max level m+" or get "max level cache every tuesday" (not sure which wow game you're playing, but this community doesn't allow you to run 10s with an io of 850). You simply have to be smart about what gear you put on, or use sims.

[Kirroth]

Sorry, but 8s and 9s aren't high level keys.

See? Very different standards.

[Accendor]

Link profile plz.

I got vers in most pieces and it's still my lowest stat.

I'm never linking profiles, but this is the equipment:
- Hood of Pestilent Ichor 375
- Heart of Azeroth 379
- Seafarer Shoulderpads 370
- Sporecaller's Shroud 380
- Cephalohide Jacket 385
- Wristguards of the Sandswimmer 385
- Grups of Electrified Defense 385
- Bloodstorm Buckle 385
- Leggings of the Galeforce Viper 380
- Goldfeather Boots 385
- Seal of the Regal Loa 380
- Overseer's Lost Seal 375
- Frenetic Corpuscle 370
- Darkmoon Deck: Fathoms 355

Which brings me to:
492 Crit
621 Haste
1015 Versatility (Using one ring enchant only)
758 Mastery

As you can see it is not even close.

[boz0]

I'm never linking profiles, but this is the equipment:
- Seal of the Regal Loa 380
- Overseer's Lost Seal 375

You got two of the highest versatility rings (maybe the two highest, not sure), that might help a tad

[lollermittens]

I'm never linking profiles, but this is the equipment:
- Hood of Pestilent Ichor 375
- Heart of Azeroth 379
- Seafarer Shoulderpads 370
- Sporecaller's Shroud 380
- Cephalohide Jacket 385
- Wristguards of the Sandswimmer 385
- Grups of Electrified Defense 385
- Bloodstorm Buckle 385
- Leggings of the Galeforce Viper 380
- Goldfeather Boots 385
- Seal of the Regal Loa 380
- Overseer's Lost Seal 375
- Frenetic Corpuscle 370
- Darkmoon Deck: Fathoms 355

Which brings me to:
492 Crit
621 Haste
1015 Versatility (Using one ring enchant only)
758 Mastery

As you can see it is not even close.

CR is too low. You want at least 25% on a DH, slowly bringing it to 40% as content is released.

Mastery is way too high. Haste is fine.

I think you're gimping yourself by stacking so much Vers since the gear you have obviously has mostly +Vers/ +Mastery, the latter being the worst stat for Havoc DH. Are you simming your gear? At a certain point, stacking too much of a stat starts to play against your character's DPS throughput.