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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by lummiuster View Post
    If you are going to upgrade your cpu and mobo, get a 2700X. Seriously, 9900k is like 10% better for 90% the price. And you won't notice the difference at all since both are overkill. You will notice a difference for every penny you add in your GPU though.
    Your PSU is probably good for 20 more years if not till you die.
    Another reason to get AMD over intel is that they will release new gen cpu in 2019 which will be hands down better than intel. The reason being that their current cpu use 12nm node and they are aiming for 10nm or 7nm I dont remember. Meanwhile intel has been stuck on 14nm for a long while and they keep trying to release a 12nm cpu (like 2700x).
    Intel is working on the 10nm Ice lake
    AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D: Gigabyte X670 Aorus Elite AX: G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000 C30 : PowerColor Radeon RX 7900 GRE Hellhound OC: CORSAIR HX850i: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB NVMe: fiio e10k: lian-li pc-o11 dynamic XL:

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by pansertjald View Post
    Intel is working on the 10nm Ice lake
    they sorta eluded to 10nm no longer being true 10nm in a similar way to how amd's 7nm isn't actually 7nm.
    just so they can push it out of the door.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by pansertjald View Post
    Intel is working on the 10nm Ice lake
    Its not even "working on". Ice Lake has been taped out for years.

    The issue has been Yields. They want to get yields like they get on current chips for more profit margin.

    They may have to simply put them into production at current yields and accept lower margins, but they could do that tomorrow. Ice Lake is ready to go as far as "working" is concerned. Its purely a profit decision that has kept them off the market, and prior to AMD ratcheting up the pressure, they had no compelling reason to accept lower profits and to take the time to increase yields.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by pansertjald View Post
    AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AVIOD TOMSHARDWARE
    Just buy the nvidia 2000 series, ignore the trickery and pricetag, just buy it!
    -tomshardware

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Its not even "working on". Ice Lake has been taped out for years.

    The issue has been Yields. They want to get yields like they get on current chips for more profit margin.

    They may have to simply put them into production at current yields and accept lower margins, but they could do that tomorrow. Ice Lake is ready to go as far as "working" is concerned. Its purely a profit decision that has kept them off the market, and prior to AMD ratcheting up the pressure, they had no compelling reason to accept lower profits and to take the time to increase yields.
    Instead they released the 9th gen which is just the 8th gen with a single core overclock and a additional 2 cores.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Daethz View Post
    Just buy the nvidia 2000 series, ignore the trickery and pricetag, just buy it!
    -tomshardware

    - - - Updated - - -



    Instead they released the 9th gen which is just the 8th gen with a single core overclock and a additional 2 cores.
    Because they still aren't feeling a ton of pressure from AMD.

    Zen 2 (Ryzen 3) will be the decider. If AMDs "7nm" or whatever it really is DOES deliver a big IPC or Clock Speed boost (since it is pretty much just the clock speeds keeping Ryzen 2/Zen 1.5 from absolutely dominating Intel - a 1Ghz deficit is hard to overcome)... then Intel will HAVE to pull the trigger on Ice Lake.

    Otherwise.. not really.

    the solid 8c/8th chips at 5.0ghz are keeping pace with 6c/12th parts in a lot of cases (which also shows how not-great SMT/HT really is at most tasks), so its not a super big deal to Intel at that point. They aren't trying to compete on price/performance - merely performance.

    The target audience for the 9600K and above is people who will pay more for more performance, not people looking for the best dollar/performance ratio. Always has been. Particularly true in the HEDT space. The kind of people that i know that buy those chips will spend the 3k to buy a new one the moment it comes out because the 10% increase in render times will equate out to FAR more than 3k worth of additional work getting done inside of just a month or two or sometimes even a few weeks.

    You couldn't give them AMDs products for free. Anything that equals more time spent on one job = bad.

    So Threadripper and the high end consumer Ryzen chips have this really odd niche of being basically for hobbyist/enthusiast non-pro level "prosumer" types...

    Who really dont make up shit all of the market.

    Its not to say that ANY of them are bad products - they are not - merely that.. Intel knows its market, and isn't really worried about AMD in most places.

    Ryzen has made virtually no headway of any kind into the mobile market, where Intel still dominates (and derives a massive pile of their profit), and Threadripper has really only stripped away the budget-minded prosumer types. Epyc, OTOH... Epyc scares the piss out of Intel wether they will admit it or not, because in that space, they dont really have a performance crown, since they cant get those higher clock speeds. Everything in that space is sorta clock speed limited, and AMDs clocks are close enough to Intel's that Epyc is a real draw for "light iron" server applications ("Big Iron" being almost exclusively the domain of POWER and some ARM implementations, and not a space that EITHER Intel or AMD have serious market share in).

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    So, over the past year, I've slowly been upgrading a build I made back at the end of 2012, start of 2013.

    So far, I've managed peripherals (as I admittedly skimped on those in the first place, plus needed an extra screen), storage (the 128 SSD I got initially got full, so added a 512), and GPU (Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070).

    This leaves me with these things from my old build left to upgrade:

    Motherboard - An ASUS Z87-PRO (https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z8...pecifications/)

    CPU - An 4th generation Intel I5-4670 (https://ark.intel.com/products/75047...p-to-3-80-GHz-)

    RAM - 4x sticks of Corsair Vengeance DDR3 4GB Ram (https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Catego...Z4GX3M1A1600C9)


    PSU - Club 3D 850W (https://www.digitec.ch/en/s1/product...omputer-248815)

    Now, I've basically hit the "trifecta" that has to be changed all at once, as far as I've understood - I've been eyeing an I7 processor (bit unsure between 9700 and 7700, though), which means that as far as I can tell, I will need a new motherboard (because it's got 1150 socket, while both I7's use 1151).

    This also means I'll need new RAM to go with, as a new Motherboard is unlikely to be able to reuse my current sticks - is this correct?

    So, after the above rambling, the questions boil down to:

    1: Would people recommend an I7-7700, or 9700?

    2: I will need a new motherboard - what's a good pick that'll last me another 3-4 years?

    3: Which RAM do I pair with the recommended motherboard? Still looking for a 16GB setup.

    4: Will I be fine with my current PSU, or do I need to upgrade that at the same time?


    Budget is always a bit of a concern, especially when changing this many components at once, but with both my birthday and christmas comming up and nothing better to wish for, I'd like to know what I should be looking for.
    Cheers!
    1) I wouldn't recommend either. I'd suggest the i9-9900k if you have the $550 or the i7-9700k for $400 and pair it with a good z390 board.

    2)Yes you'll need a new motherboard. The 4000 series was on a different socket.

    3) Ram also changed from ddr3 to ddr4. 16 GB is a good amount, pick a nice kit either 2x8GB or 4x4GB, try for a high speed, 2666 MHz or better. Prices are close and you can usually find a 3000 or 3200 MHz at ok price.

    4) I would get a new psu just to make sure you have something new. But 850W is more than enough, especially if you aren't going to be overclocking

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Because they still aren't feeling a ton of pressure from AMD.

    Zen 2 (Ryzen 3) will be the decider. If AMDs "7nm" or whatever it really is DOES deliver a big IPC or Clock Speed boost (since it is pretty much just the clock speeds keeping Ryzen 2/Zen 1.5 from absolutely dominating Intel - a 1Ghz deficit is hard to overcome)... then Intel will HAVE to pull the trigger on Ice Lake.

    Otherwise.. not really.

    the solid 8c/8th chips at 5.0ghz are keeping pace with 6c/12th parts in a lot of cases (which also shows how not-great SMT/HT really is at most tasks), so its not a super big deal to Intel at that point. They aren't trying to compete on price/performance - merely performance.

    The target audience for the 9600K and above is people who will pay more for more performance, not people looking for the best dollar/performance ratio. Always has been. Particularly true in the HEDT space. The kind of people that i know that buy those chips will spend the 3k to buy a new one the moment it comes out because the 10% increase in render times will equate out to FAR more than 3k worth of additional work getting done inside of just a month or two or sometimes even a few weeks.

    You couldn't give them AMDs products for free. Anything that equals more time spent on one job = bad.

    So Threadripper and the high end consumer Ryzen chips have this really odd niche of being basically for hobbyist/enthusiast non-pro level "prosumer" types...

    Who really dont make up shit all of the market.

    Its not to say that ANY of them are bad products - they are not - merely that.. Intel knows its market, and isn't really worried about AMD in most places.

    Ryzen has made virtually no headway of any kind into the mobile market, where Intel still dominates (and derives a massive pile of their profit), and Threadripper has really only stripped away the budget-minded prosumer types. Epyc, OTOH... Epyc scares the piss out of Intel wether they will admit it or not, because in that space, they dont really have a performance crown, since they cant get those higher clock speeds. Everything in that space is sorta clock speed limited, and AMDs clocks are close enough to Intel's that Epyc is a real draw for "light iron" server applications ("Big Iron" being almost exclusively the domain of POWER and some ARM implementations, and not a space that EITHER Intel or AMD have serious market share in).
    Here's to hoping both zen2 and Navi can kick big blue and big green in the ass to make PC part prices competitive

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Here's to hoping both zen2 and Navi can kick big blue and big green in the ass to make PC part prices competitive
    Oh absolutely. Really would like cheaper hardware

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Oh absolutely. Really would like cheaper hardware
    If amd fails to make a competitive gpu.... nvidia will get shadier and lazier with their gpu development

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pansertjald View Post
    Intel is working on the 10nm Ice lake
    years ago, I think in 2014, they promised their investors that they would release 10nm in 2016. It didnt work, they promised it for 2017.. and 2018 and now 2019. They admitted they are facing issues and the way they explained it, it is easy to guess that they are not close from making it work.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by lummiuster View Post
    If you are going to upgrade your cpu and mobo, get a 2700X. Seriously, 9900k is like 10% better for 90% the price. And you won't notice the difference at all since both are overkill. You will notice a difference for every penny you add in your GPU though.
    Your PSU is probably good for 20 more years if not till you die.
    Another reason to get AMD over intel is that they will release new gen cpu in 2019 which will be hands down better than intel. The reason being that their current cpu use 12nm node and they are aiming for 10nm or 7nm I dont remember. Meanwhile intel has been stuck on 14nm for a long while and they keep trying to release a 12nm cpu (like 2700x).
    I agree with you on on everything, but to be perfectly honest, it also depends on his resolution really. 20+ something frames isn't "negligible" if you're pushing for 1080p frames for very high display rate screens. As far as 1440p and above is concerned, there is no difference, but if he wants to push the absolute max fps in 1080p, intel will always outshine amd in the current generation there and sometimes the difference is big. 1440p and 4k, barely any difference since we're pushing into the gpu territory there. I do hope he isn't going for 1080p with that rig.

    I'm on 1440p144hz and I'm pushing 120+ frames in Bf5 at max details. You could probs go much higher if you lowered your details, but I don't really give a fuck about "competetive", I want my games to look as pretty as they can, and tbh 120+ frames on a 144hz monitor (even with no gsync) still look and feel so damn fucking good.
    Last edited by mauserr; 2018-11-29 at 03:19 PM.

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