Other games teach you to be patient. What does WoW teach you? - WoW's community rant

[Waynhim]

This happend with WotlK, which a lot of wow players praises as the best expansion. Since then it has been ez-mode leveling, no raid-attunements, and 30 minutes faceroll dungeons.

Why? Because that's what the vast majority of players want. Game designers cater to profit, instant gratification = profit.

[swatsonqt]

Maybe it's more than people seek different kinds of gratification. The only true gratification I get from playing WoW is when I get Cutting Edge, and that sure as hell ain't instant. It takes months, long raid nights, perfecting my character and my play, it takes team work, organization and tough decisions.

It only takes so long because you have to wait for the last idiot in you raid team to figure out how it's to be done... I find this to be extremely frustrating seeing people over weeks failing to the same BS they keep failing at week by week. I would love to find gratification by doing this...

[Deleted]

This happend with WotlK, which a lot of wow players praises as the best expansion. Since then it has been ez-mode leveling, no raid-attunements, and 30 minutes faceroll dungeons.

Why? Because that's what the vast majority of players want. Game designers cater to profit, instant gratification = profit.

League of Legends would like to have word with you. No instant gratification games never last long and people tend them leave quite offen.

[Deleted]

Ok so whats best? Put effort and try to win the BG or end the M+? Or leave and que with a better group who will carry you faster?

It is not about screwing other players time, it is about getting to your objective as fastest as possible.

[klaps_05]

Right, other games teach you to be patient. Which game is that exactly? Solitaire?

[Soikona]

What other games do you play?

Because these - rather bold - statements usually come from people who only or mostly play WoW.

Getting 2% of the level bar from an hour long grinding session reminds me of Black Desert, but then there could be more atrocious games like that, I guess. That game sucks ass and doesn't teach you anything but how low can some devs sink when implementing p2w shit.

As someone who has only started ESO, the max level of CP on it, is 810. I am only 260 after nearly 2 months of playing. Granted, I am only spending like 2-3 hours a night playing. Considering when it comes to WoW, I would be max level by now, but, only because of prior knowledge of how to level quickly.

[Mysterymask]

Reading this, I'm reminded of Suikoden 2, where there's a timer in getting the character Clive correctly. Take too long to level characters or enjoy the story, and you'll miss part of the event, thus missing the character. Which is bad for the completionists that want to complete the story to get all 108 characters.

And for context to the OP, Suikoden 2 was released in 1998 in Japan.

oh jesus..never played Suikoden 2...but wow that's actually a LOT worse than my example...

Excalibur 2 is a DAMNED good weapon but if you took the time to grind you almost don't need it (however...speedrunning it you don't have time to grind and it's the game almost throwing you a bone)

[Mixxy]

I say this because i've been playing another MMO where the game itself changed my entire personality. Im not even kidding

If your personality is so paper-thin and one-dimensional that your entire self is changed by whether you're playing a slow video game or a fast video game, that's... kind of sad.

Go outside.

Experience some things.

Define yourself a little bit. Get some perspective. Seriously.

[Kumorii]

My main gripe with multiplayer games has always been players. It's a problem that exists in every game, so no. I don't think it's wow faults people leave, personal responsibility and all that.

MOBA games have very little "instant" gratification moments and even punish people who leave. Yet it's a huge problem in those games. Players will leave if they feel others are holding them back regardless of how deluded they are.

[Beastiel]

correlation = / = causation?

Maybe the reason the people in your other game are more patient is because only a really patient type of person can deal with such little stimulation and continue to play?

i've been playing another MMO where the game itself changed my entire personality. Im not even kidding

I don't think anyone is buying that.

[Byleth]

What? You have to be super patient to play WoW. Otherwise either grind, timegating or RNG will kill your enjoyment. Of course there are games where you have to be even more patient, but now online games market is dominated by "quick match" types, so no wonder many people bitch that they can't get everything day 1. in WoW.

True this. I can't wait to see the flood of tears when people return in 8.2 and can't fly straight away.

I mean people are constantly bitching about perceived time-gating as it is over things like allied races, heritage armor, LFR unlocks, warfront schedules, rep in general, leveling in general... But this is how MMO's work, you put in the effort and you get the reward. In wow, effort means just playing the game and you'll get what you want pretty damned quickly. A few weeks of work (if that) is hardly time-gating.

Now solid arguments can be made for how 'fun' some of those things are, but imagine how boring the game would be if you were just handed everything on a silver platter... What would there be to achieve? People like having things that others don't, it validates their time spent.

[Danuel]

Patient?

Have you ever played Lineage 2 in retail when grinding for days in order to received 1% of XP.

And then, enemy comes along, kills you and you lose that 1% !

Sounds like really shifty game mate.

[Byleth]

I don't think anyone is buying that.

I used to get irritated by @Shadowpunkz - But then I took the time to get to know him. He's a great guy, and I can attest to the fact that his recent experience with a new MMO has changed his perspective on a lot of things.

But go on, keep making broad accusations about someone based on nothing.

[Mixxy]

Maybe the reason the people in your other game are more patient is because only a really patient type of person can deal with such little stimulation and continue to play?

That's what I'm going with.

OP's "other MMO" is obviously just the kind of game that attracts people who enjoy killing the same thing over and over again for 60 hours for no reason with no progression.

[Lei]

I knew someone would mix the recent leveling and/or flying here.
How hard is to grasp that for YEARS leveling was always nerfed at the end f expansions, and flying was always there without timegate and repfarm and what not. Leveling had it's timeframe, flying had it's price. But then blizz started to fuck around with them because the current game couldn't hold players for long. We are "paying more" because the leveling time and flying fuckering, and some people don't like that. Simple as that.
Some things are really sensitive in a game that has its continuation. There are rules. Players didn't set the original rules, but it was the normal. Now moving the goalposts with these old rules is never a good thing.

[Byleth]

I knew someone would mix the recent leveling and/or flying here.
How hard is to grasp that for YEARS leveling was always nerfed at the end f expansions, and flying was always there without timegate and repfarm and what not. Leveling had it's timeframe, flying had it's price. But then blizz started to fuck around with them because the current game couldn't hold players for long. We are "paying more" because the leveling time and flying fuckering, and some people don't like that. Simple as that.
Some things are really sensitive in a game that has its continuation. There are rules. Players didn't set the original rules, but it was the normal. Now moving the goalposts with these old rules is never a good thing.

I mean you make a solid point, and I'm not going to disagree with it. But you hardly speak for everyone who complains about these things. Some people just want the things without the effort.

I have a friend who STILL can't fly in Legion, despite being subbed the whole time because he REFUSES to quest in Suramar, even after it was nerfed so you can do it in a day. All he wants to do is grind dungeons and PvP - and of course to moan that he can't fly ALL the time. (He hasn't figured out that he won't be flying in BfA either as he can't be fucked with the war campaign, I'm looking forward to his future tears).

Personally, I do think they should move back to a $$ for flying model, even if they release it in a later patch because that would allow people who are only interested in some aspects of the game to enjoy themselves more. However, I do think some things should be kept prestigious (like allied races) to give people like me - with patience - some rewards for our play style too.

[Soikona]

I think this has some merit. In the past, WoW taught me to progressively overcome challenges. Lately, it teaches me to min/max my way through everything. I think the real issue is that the game, or games in general, or too 'figured out'. Something isn't even off the PTR before it's been dissected and optimized. Where's the discovery? Where's the danger?

Solving this is a real puzzle, because if things are too easy and hand-held, we get what we have now, a time-gated slot machine. If things are too difficult, we get people complaining that the game is too grindy, or not approachable by wider playerbase. I even have to admit that my more positive experience with the game's relative challenge in the past is likely subjective to my own learning process.

Considering that, the issue may not be as much with the game itself as it is with the nature of games like this. It's most fun when it's new, and you kinda suck at it. How do you get that back? I think it's a 5million subscriber question.

I did go blindish into ESO, I only knew I wanted to heal, picked my class and I was away. It was great starting fresh!

[Byleth]

As an alliance player my worst enemy is the other alliance players not the horde. Horde I can kill. I wish we could player vs everyone at this point.

Word!

Some of the scummiest things I've seen in game have been from my own faction being dickbags.

Like the dungeon I was healing today, it was a heroic, and our DPS were obviously gearing, but the tank felt the need to say "our DPS is slower than turtles making it to the water" mid boss fight. I mean, I'm sure that made the under geared DPS feel just great. It was so unnecessary too as the dungeon was going just fine and was cleared without incident and was only just slightly longer than normal.

[Deleted]

I mean you make a solid point, and I'm not going to disagree with it. But you hardly speak for everyone who complains about these things. Some people just want the things without the effort.

I have a friend who STILL can't fly in Legion, despite being subbed the whole time because he REFUSES to quest in Suramar, even after it was nerfed so you can do it in a day. All he wants to do is grind dungeons and PvP - and of course to moan that he can't fly ALL the time. (He hasn't figured out that he won't be flying in BfA either as he can't be fucked with the war campaign, I'm looking forward to his future tears).

Personally, I do think they should move back to a $$ for flying model, even if they release it in a later patch because that would allow people who are only interested in some aspects of the game to enjoy themselves more. However, I do think some things should be kept prestigious (like allied races) to give people like me - with patience - some rewards for our play style too.

I think you should tell me that he plays wrong game. He plays mmo but he obviously want pla dungeon crawl. Tell him to go play path of exile.

[Deleted]

It only takes so long because you have to wait for the last idiot in you raid team to figure out how it's to be done... I find this to be extremely frustrating seeing people over weeks failing to the same BS they keep failing at week by week. I would love to find gratification by doing this...

Sometimes, but not always. I remember one fateful night when we were progressing Maiden in ToS, and we wiped maybe 25 times in a row. I was furious, thinking who the fuck is the idiot who keeps screwing us over. I myself caused one of those wipes, soaking the wrong orb once. But I thought well everyone can make a mistake, I've played perfectly every try except this one.

During the break I went to WCL to find the culprit responsible for ruining our progress, and what I found was that no single player has caused us more than 2 wipes. Everyone had made one or two errors, but of course it amounted to ~20 wipes.