1. #8281
    Deleted
    How would you guys feel if they added the High Elf appearance to the Void Elf customization instead of having a completely new allied race?

    (Not sure if this has been asked?)

  2. #8282
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    Look out of the window and into the newspapers. Happens every day in all parts of the world. Why do you think WoW would be different? Wars have been started for less reasons.

    Suck it up, Blood Elves are the true Thallassian Elves. The others are traitors and exciles. Some of them are not even in the Alliance, but belong to Kirin Tor. And the small part which is in the Alliance are whoring for "security" and "human potential". Really disgusting.

    It's really baffling how people use some fringe exceptions to adamantly demand High Elves as a playable race on the Alliance, but blatantly ignore the majority of lore about that race which had happened in WC III and in WoW since TBC though it's there in their faces.

    Blood Elves are Horde. Alliance got Void Elves. End of story.
    It's quite a naive thing to say "traitor". It's a very biased term. Blood elves can just as well be traitors to their kind for embracing tne fel. Actually, traitors to whole of Azeroth. Traitor depends on perspective. It isn't factual.
    Oh god... last thing i need is a human telling me the human potencial is disgusting. You are roleplaying, human. This convoversation is over. I don't play make believe. Afraid you are one of us. I guess you gotta suck that up too.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2018-11-30 at 11:59 AM.

  3. #8283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard Sanctum View Post
    How would you guys feel if they added the High Elf appearance to the Void Elf customization instead of having a completely new allied race?

    (Not sure if this has been asked?)
    If that was the absolute most they decided to do then I'd accept it over the current state we have now. Has to have an explanation at least, but Blizzard typically does give explanations for when things are added or taken away (regardless if people agree with those things or not).

    I would rather Blizzard make them a distinct entity though since they qualify as much as other AR to be stand-alone. Take one look at Alleria: Boom that's High Elf aesthetic right there, just blow that out as its own thing by adding more variations of said aesthetic Alleria holds.

    Shoe-horning in stuff "because atm it doesn't feel too different" starts to then dilute other things.

    Like take Hunters for existence. You could be a super pet focused Ranger, but not a Dual Wield/2-Hand Ranger with no pet, or a Ranger with no pet. Even though there's lots of examples of Rangers that are melee and Rangers that don't have pets in WoW. But because they tried to fit in so much into the Hunter it diluted certain aspects of it. Aspects that they, after over a decade, have finally started changing around and making Hunters have more variety. Same for DH getting 2 specs, because having 3 would require dilution of the other 2.

    I'm hoping this change in Blizzard philosophy continues and carries on so that even if something that can be considered "only a slight variation" can be blown up to be more of its own thing. All that's required is enhancing what differences there already are, and I think with the amount of creativity Blizzard has they can definitely achieve that. I say this because we already have so much fan-art that depicts unique variations (which is 'amateur work' in the sense they are not paid professionals - not amateur skill-wise), and Blizzard has industry art professionals among themselves.

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    I'd also be cool with Half-Elves that carried the High Elf and Human legacy onwards too.



    Very short pointy ears, more human hairstyles/customization with a mix of human-elf faces. That'd be pretty dope as well and more entirely unique.

  4. #8284
    The only problem I see with half-elves is that there are too few of them. Every half-breed in WoW is rare, even the developers have said this. The only half-breeds with a small, yet decent-sized population is the Mok'nathal.

  5. #8285
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    I think you need to suck it yourself cause you're the one making the drama.

    It's quite a naive thing to say "traitor". It's a very biased term. Blood elves can just as well be traitors to their kind for embracing tne fel. Actually, traitors to whole of Azeroth. Traitor depends on perspective. It isn't factual.
    Oh god... last thing i need is a human telling me the human potencial is disgusting. You are roleplaying, human. This convoversation is over. I don't play make believe. Afraid you are one of us. I guess you gotta suck that up too.
    This is not drama, this is your incredible inability to accept facts.

    We already have 4 playable Elf races in the game. I love Elves, but this is really more than enough. They lose their exclusivity and mystery if we have too many - and we already way past that point. We need more Dwarves in the Alliance, and a Gnomish Allied Race. Or something entirely different, to reduce the amount of "human potential" - just no more Elves. Especially not the ones which are already represented in the game by 2 playable races.

    If you want to play your head canon, the WoW RPG is there for you. There you are free to write your own version of events. In this game, we got one from Blizzard.

  6. #8286
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    This is not drama, this is your incredible inability to accept facts.

    We already have 4 playable Elf races in the game. I love Elves, but this is really more than enough. They lose their exclusivity and mystery if we have too many - and we already way past that point. We need more Dwarves in the Alliance, and a Gnomish Allied Race. Or something entirely different, to reduce the amount of "human potential" - just no more Elves. Especially not the ones which are already represented in the game by 2 playable races.

    If you want to play your head canon, the WoW RPG is there for you. There you are free to write your own version of events. In this game, we got one from Blizzard.
    Stop assuming I want high elves. I pointed out the guy promoting elf drama. Turns out he was roleplaying.

    Some of you just come to this thread to make this kind of posts huh? Aren't you high and mighty on the Internet's?! Too bad you couldn't get me on your bullying tirade.

  7. #8287
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Stop assuming I want high elves. I pointed out the guy promoting elf drama. Turns out he was roleplaying.

    Some of you just come to this thread to make this kind of posts huh? Aren't you high and mighty on the Internet's?! Too bad you couldn't get me on your bullying tirade.
    Maybe you have not noticed that, but WoW is an RPG. It even has RP-dedicated servers. It has lore, however bad that is, and this thread is full of people who want to impose their headcanons on the game to get things they want for whatever reasons.

    I dont't care about being "high and mighty". I argue about keeping true to the lore of that game. It's treated badly enough by Blizzard without some crazy High Elf fanboys. I want more spotlight on other Alliance races beside Humans and Elves or some freaky werewolf abominations to make me want to play that faction again.

    "Different alliance. SW alliance had nothing to do with that, and it was the actions of an individual, not an official stance.

    So, for example a bully at school took your lunch: You now hate every human!

    Kind of over dramatic eh?"

    In that case, you have been over-dramatic, because you downplay the situation of a people on the brink of extinction by comparing it so such a minor thing. The story and situation of Blood Elves is an important reason why they are part of the Horde now, and why the whole debate exists. If the story had developed differently, and Blood Elves would not have been shunned by their former allies because of their magic withdrawal, then they would have been part of the Alliance now, and no "gief high elf" threads would have existed. But Blizzard wrote the story in a different way, and people don't want to accept that.

    If you only can contribute such irrelevant comparisons to the discussion, why are you here? Go farm your epics or pvp rating or whatever.
    Last edited by mmoceb1073a651; 2018-11-29 at 02:04 PM.

  8. #8288
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    The Silver Covenant is an on-again, off-again branch of the military of Dalaran; Dalaran is an on-again, off-again associate/provisional member of the Alliance (no different than Ironforge or Darnashus). I don't really see how you can make the case that they're not willingly attached to the Alliance, as an organization, when the entirety of their recent history revolves around violently disagreeing with allowing Blood Elves into Dalaran, a city they perceive as being theirs by right, and emphatically supporting aligning the entire city with the Alliance.
    The point is that High Elves do not have a nation state with a national leader, the best they have is a subset of militarized High Elves who live in Dalaran, Vereesa therefore can only speak for and give commands to members of the Silver Covenant, not all High Elves, just the ones living in Dalaran AND serving as part of the Silver Covenant; not the ones living around the world, not the ones living in Stormwind, and not the ones who aren't part of her militarized faction.

    High Elves do not see Dalaran as theirs by right, it was never theirs. It's a human city, originally the capital of the Arathi human kingdom of Dalaran, it's run by the council of 6 of the Kirin Tor, of which, there are no High Elves. It's not even close to "theirs."

    You're going to have to come up with a source for me, because off the top of my head, I can't think of a single member of the Silver Covenant that isn't a High Elf. If you're trying to assert that because we haven't seen a member of the Silver Covenant that isn't a HE, that it's entirely plausible that one would exist in the future, you're very quickly approaching the point of logical fallacy.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Covenant
    https://www.wowhead.com/npc=29660/grand-marauder-sai
    http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Silver_Covenant

    There are several non High Elf NPCs that are part of the Silver Covenant, some Dwarves, Gnomes, and Humans. Most are merchant types, but some are military as well.

    The sources don't align on what exactly the Silver Covenant is, some say it's a militant faction of High Elves, but at least one says that's a militant faction of the Kirin Tor, and the Kirin Tor is not a High Elf faction. All sources have non High Elf NPCs as part of it though.

    I'm not spouting head canon here, I'm basing everything I'm saying on the established lore. If you're going to come up with arguments to refute my claims, please do better than "off the top of my head" when you're asking for actual sources from me. It's a bit hypocritical.

    There isn't any single source to corroborate this notion, it's primarily informed by two things:

    1) The absolute majority of all High Elf NPC's are aligned with the Silver Covenant. I've obviously not counted, but you can count the number of High Elf NPC's that aren't a part of the Silver Covenant on your hands (maybe one foot, as well), whereas there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of Silver Covenant NPC's at this point.

    2) It is stated in the Warcraft Chronicle that there had been schism, with both social and political origins, developing between the High Elves living in Quel'thalas and the High Elves living in Dalaran (and to a lesser extent, Lordaeron) for centuries. It is this latter grouping which today comprises the vast majority of all modern High Elves, owing to the fact that they were far more concerned with helping their immediate allies (Lordaeron, and even Dalaran when it was temporarily sacked) instead of "returning" to a homeland that they'd been estranged from for so long that they likely didn't even remember it.

    The point being that the recounting only deems it important to mention two specific groups, those High Elves living in/around Quel'thalas and those High Elves living in/around Dalaran. If there were other important groupings, with distinctive cultural proclivities, they likely would've been mentioned in any capacity.

    Additionally, the Silver Covenant is implied to be composed of citizens from Dalaran. This is supported by the fact that the leadership of Dalaran has never once intoned that the Silver Covenant is in any way foreign to them. An important thing to note, because prior to the Warcraft Chronicle it was generally assumed by the playerbase that most/all of these High Elves living in/around Dalaran were slaughtered when the city fell -- which is why people came to conclude that Vereesa and all of her followers were one-time Blood Elves that had decided later that joining the Horde was a mistake. We now know, however, that Dalaran fell with almost zero casualties and virtually all of those resident High Elves not only survived, but fled to both Theramore and Stormwind before ultimately returning to Dalaran to assist in the rebuild.

    The TL;DR being that if the Warcraft Chronicle deemed it worth mentioning that the High Elves were largely split into two camps, prior to the Sacking of Quel'thalas, and hints that the group domiciled in/around Dalaran were largely unaffected by the two calamitous events that are well-known to the playerbase (the fall of Dalaran, and the sacking of Quel'thalas). This alone presents modern High Elves in a light favorable to being made playable, but anybody trying to hand-wave away the concerns coming from Blood Elf players regarding an infringement upon their identity is a fool -- we're never going to get High Elves if they look even remotely like Blood Elves (and that is fine).
    First, that schism only mentions two groups, but doesn't really mention the diaspora the High Elves are in. So, the claim you're making amounts to saying that because the schism involved two groups, that those two groups must still be just two groups; Blood Elves and High Elves. Second, you're implying that the vast majority of remaining High Elves both live in Dalaran and are serving in a military capacity as part of the Silver Covenant. So...the lore information doesn't add up to what you're implying, if the High Elves are in a state of diaspora across Stormwind, Dalaran, Outland and their lodges around the world (but primarily Qel'Danil), how can "the absolute majority" of them both be living in Dalaran AND be part of the relatively small militarized faction there?

    You have no source that states specifically that the absolute majority of remaining High Elves live in Dalaran AND are part of the Silver Covenant. I'm just bringing up that not every single High Elf is serving in a military capacity, or living in Dalaran. Many High Elves live in Stormwind, and there are High Elves living within the Alliance that are not serving in a military capacity and are therefore not part of the Silver Covenant, they're just living their lives within Alliance territory.

    I've never stated that High Elves aren't part of the Alliance, they absolutely are. I'm saying that they aren't a separate nation state allying themselves with the Alliance, like Night Elves, Gnomes, Worgen, Humans, Dwarves, and Draenei...they're integral citizens of the cities and states they live in and are therefore just part of the Alliance population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard Sanctum View Post
    How would you guys feel if they added the High Elf appearance to the Void Elf customization instead of having a completely new allied race?

    (Not sure if this has been asked?)
    I would feel that it would cheapen the lore, a LOT. If they did this, they should give the same customization options to the Blood Elves, but that would never happen.

  9. #8289
    Oh wow these look great, I really like the war paint, the ranger/commando theme fits very well.

  10. #8290
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    Maybe you have not noticed that, but WoW is an RPG. It even has RP-dedicated servers. It has lore, however bad that is, and this thread is full of people who want to impose their headcanons on the game to get things they want for whatever reasons.

    I dont't care about being "high and mighty". I argue about keeping true to the lore of that game. It's treated badly enough by Blizzard without some crazy High Elf fanboys. I want more spotlight on other Alliance races beside Humans and Elves or some freaky werewolf abominations to make me want to play that faction again.

    "Different alliance. SW alliance had nothing to do with that, and it was the actions of an individual, not an official stance.

    So, for example a bully at school took your lunch: You now hate every human!

    Kind of over dramatic eh?"

    In that case, you have been over-dramatic, because you downplay the situation of a people on the brink of extinction by comparing it so such a minor thing. The story and situation of Blood Elves is an important reason why they are part of the Horde now, and why the whole debate exists. If the story had developed differently, and Blood Elves would not have been shunned by their former allies because of their magic withdrawal, then they would have been part of the Alliance now, and no "gief high elf" threads would have existed. But Blizzard wrote the story in a different way, and people don't want to accept that.

    If you only can contribute such irrelevant comparisons to the discussion, why are you here? Go farm your epics or pvp rating or whatever.
    Every race in WoW is on the verge of extinction. It's a common theme.

    It's funny cause the guy was the one making up lore, not me.

    As to what i am doing on this thread? I like talking about the game and what people would like for it. A lot of people want High elves. It's not my choice, but i like that they are so passionate about it.

    Guys like you making destructive replies is what i think has no place here. If you don't like it, you already gave your opinion. Why are you still here harassing people? Let people want what they want. The game isn't yours.

  11. #8291
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Yeah the options we were recently told were to "not give up" and "door hasn't closed" and "just because High Elves aren't in BFA doesn't mean they'll never be" so with being told those things I'd say High Elf fans are safe to continue requesting playable Alliance High Elves.
    That was always an option genius. Even when Ion told you to just quit whining and either pick a belf or a velf you continued to prattle on and started attacking Ion, just like you attack anyone who disagrees with your helf fetish.

    But yeah, don't give up. Keep that cash coming, I'm sure Helfs are just a month away, or three, or six or ... well, you make sure you pay your sub Helfboi.

  12. #8292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallowseve17 View Post
    The only problem I see with half-elves is that there are too few of them. Every half-breed in WoW is rare, even the developers have said this. The only half-breeds with a small, yet decent-sized population is the Mok'nathal.
    Yeah I agree which is why it's far-fetched in happening. But was just throwing out the other option I'm cool with happening. For me it's not "High Elves as stand-alone race or bust." I'm down for compromises that are actual compromises. Not something like Void Elves where players weren't asked or hinted at about "what if magically transformed thalassian elves were on alliance" that convo never happened so VE can't ever be a compromise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    First, that schism only mentions two groups, but doesn't really mention the diaspora the High Elves are in. So, the claim you're making amounts to saying that because the schism involved two groups, that those two groups must still be just two groups; Blood Elves and High Elves. Second, you're implying that the vast majority of remaining High Elves both live in Dalaran and are serving in a military capacity as part of the Silver Covenant. So...the lore information doesn't add up to what you're implying, if the High Elves are in a state of diaspora across Stormwind, Dalaran, Outland and their lodges around the world (but primarily Qel'Danil), how can "the absolute majority" of them both be living in Dalaran AND be part of the relatively small militarized faction there?
    This bolded information was written during Vanilla WoW when the faction "Silver Covenant" wasn't existing in-game. Neither did the continent of Northrend. I think it goes without saying every expansion continues the lore forward. And with every expansion (aside WoD, maybe) there has been an ever increasing population of named High Elf NPCs factioned with the Alliance. With every expansion we are seeing more connections between High Elves and the Alliance. We have been introduced to Alleria's expedition in TBC, the Silver Covenant in Wrath, the SC siding with Alliance during MoP, the High Elves being mentioned among the Alliance by Elisande (she references Blood Elves among "misfits and monsters" aka Horde), High Elven mages among the ranks of the 7th Legion in BFA and seen walking around SW among Void Elves and being part of the Island Expedition team which Jeremy Feasel stated were "making interesting members of the opposing faction to fight" and what do we see on an Alliance team? A High Elf. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Frostfencer_Seraphi

    Island Exp video: https://youtu.be/XojQnSMkq-k?t=216

    6 out of 7 expansions has been slowly showcasing more and more Alliance High Elves, whether generic or unique named.

    Also, we have seen more instances of the idea of "Blood Elves coming back into the Alliance" rather than "High Elves (as in Alliance High Elves with Blue Eyes for any smartasses) going back to Horde". That reinforces this idea that the High Elves are very loyal to Alliance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    But yeah, don't give up. Keep that cash coming, I'm sure Helfs are just a month away, or three, or six or ... well, you make sure you pay your sub Helfboi.
    Implying I'm going to stay subbed to Blizzard in hopes of High Elves. The only matter that keeps me subbed is "am I having fun with the game or not?", I've unsubbed from WoW for long periods of time, and have come back as well. Never has it related to High Elves and never will it. Nice try at implying something that isn't reality. Sucks for you.

  13. #8293
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Nowhere did I say that. I'm sure I can be confusing if you utterly and terribly misinterpret or stay in denial of proof that High Elves existed on Alliance from WC3 to WoW and before Blood Elves joined the Horde in TBC.



    It was meant to show that there is a continued bridge of High Elves that stayed Alliance loyal before Blood Elves were a faction of the Horde.

    At this point, either you will get it or you won't. I'm not sure what's worse in that regard honestly.
    I think you are the one in denial. Asking for a race that will literally further detract from the Horde and Blood Elfs, and not giving a damn about that cause you'd rather wish that you can play your light skinned elf despite the blurring of faction lines or identity it would take from the Horde and Blood Elfs. And you think your justifications are valid... the majority of your evidence only suits your agenda and completely disregards the concerns of those against high elfs.

    You think tattoos and hair will make much visual distinction? No. And don't use lightforged draenei, cause that's not crossing factions boundaries. You were given your void elfs, in exchange for nightborne going Horde. How would it be fair to give another customization of a HORDE playable model to the alliance? Again, lore reasons aren't enough to validate this. Any story progression for high elfs can be achieved via NPCs, but even then I would like to see more story progression for blood elfs and void elfs as opposed to high elfs given that the former are playable and given that blood elfs ARE the main high elven society and as such the main focus of ANY high elven story should be given to them. It wouldn't make sense for a small band of humans (say Alterac) to get more lore progression than say SW humans. RP wise, although people would love to RP alliance high elfs, it wouldn't be fair to the Horde and blood elf fans to have their identity detracted from just because a small minority of people would love to RP a blue eyed light skinned elf on the blue side.

    Then there is the debacle of void elfs getting high elf customization options. This wouldn't work for so many reasons:
    1. There would be NEXT TO NO visual distinction between void elfs and blood elfs. Thus, further blurring factions lines and DEFINITELY detracting from the Horde identity and core Horde race
    2. High elfs with void traits... doesn't make sense lore wise
    3. People would then beg for paladins... which wouldn't make sense lore wise
    4. etc..

    I know you really want high elfs but sometimes you need to accept that there are more factors and concerns to consider, rather than "just give me what I want to play". This game is centered around two opposing factions. Both factions are heavily defined by the races allied to them. On top of that, blood elfs are a CORE horde race... so despite your "innocent" request, there is much more to consider than simply giving you high elfs....and Blizz recognize these concerns, hence why they went down the void elf route as opposed to just giving you high elfs which the introduction of the AR system would have been the perfect time to do. On

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Wrong, while it's a true that a few early Wc3 High elves became Blood elves, particularly those who didn't follow Jaina to Theramore or resided in the lodges, almost all Blood elves were from Silvermoon. The "Reclusive masters" that were referred to in that lore. The majority of High elves were Alliance since the second war and remained so.
    Lol, I think you have your lore backwards. MOST of the WC3 high elfs became blood elfs. A FEW of them chose to ally with the new (ie current) alliance.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  14. #8294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    I think you are the one in denial.
    It can't be denial when both the Game Director of WoW says "the door hasn't closed" on High Elves and the Lead World Designer and Creative Director says "don't give up hope" and High Elf fantasy can come to Alliance through VE proxy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    You think tattoos and hair will make much visual distinction? No. And don't use lightforged draenei, cause that's not crossing factions boundaries. You were given your void elfs, in exchange for nightborne going Horde. How would it be fair to give another customization of a HORDE playable model to the alliance? Again, lore reasons aren't enough to validate this.
    Show me a Blood Elf that looks like this in-game:



    Then you can say it's not fair. Btw you're absolutely right, Void Elves were given in exchange for Nightborne. Now that we have Void Elves there is no crossing faction boundaries to gain the look of Alleria and other High Elves that already exist on Alliance. Examples of these below:







    And as we have seen when it comes to character customization, those customizations don't need to exist on unplayable npcs to be added to the playable version of a race (aka Dark Iron Dwarf tattoos when no DID NPC had tattoos in-game).

  15. #8295
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    It can't be denial when both the Game Director of WoW says "the door hasn't closed" on High Elves and the Lead World Designer and Creative Director says "don't give up hope" and High Elf fantasy can come to Alliance through VE proxy.



    Show me a Blood Elf that looks like this in-game:



    Then you can say it's not fair. Btw you're absolutely right, Void Elves were given in exchange for Nightborne. Now that we have Void Elves there is no crossing faction boundaries to gain the look of Alleria and other High Elves that already exist on Alliance. Examples of these below:







    And as we have seen when it comes to character customization, those customizations don't need to exist on unplayable npcs to be added to the playable version of a race (aka Dark Iron Dwarf tattoos when no DID NPC had tattoos in-game).
    You literally just posted pics of blood elfs with blue eyes. In the case of Alleria, if there was an armor X-mog for that, then yep there would be plenty of blood elfs that look like that (minus the eye color).

    I think this is your weakest argument yet. You literally used blood elfs with blue eyes to validate your point... lul

    Also, yes it would be crossing faction boundaries. The thalassian elf model is a CORE horde model. Imagine the outrage if nightborne were given more and better customization options than night elfs. So sorry bud, but high elfs (either as a new AR or customization to void elfs) would detract from the core Horde race that is blood elfs.
    Last edited by Strippling; 2018-11-30 at 12:39 AM.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  16. #8296
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    Lol, I think you have your lore backwards. MOST of the WC3 high elfs became blood elfs. A FEW of them chose to ally with the new (ie current) alliance.
    I am speaking specifically about the High elves featured in Wc3 in the Alliance. Quel'thalas was already out of the Alliance by then, so I wasn't counting those.
    Those High elves were split, a lot went with Jaina, a few went with Arthas to Northrend and died, and the rest who remained behind joined Kael'thas and later became Belves.

  17. #8297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    So sorry bud, but high elfs (either as a new AR or customization to void elfs) would detract from the core Horde race that is blood elfs.
    You don't have to apologize for that. Blizzard will handle it how they see fit. Post BfA, there's potential for playable High Elves on Alliance.

  18. #8298
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    snip
    I find that after a time these replies become simply too unwieldy to manage by responding to every single point. Someone at some point has to slow down the cycle of bloat and summarise.

    Fundamentally, we are never going to agree. You desire an Alliance High Elf and openly state political affiliation is the driving force for that goal. I argue that political differentiation is not enough to justify an Allied race.

    The critical difference in our points of view is that yours is aspirational, whereas mine is factual. By that I mean, Blizzard agrees that political differentiation is not enough to justify an Allied race. We know this because

    a.) They have stated on several occasions that Blood Elves are High Elves, that High Elves are already playable and that this is the reason Alliance High Elves are not a playable race.

    b.) They created Void Elves rather than use a system that seems tailor made to deliver Alliance High Elves. In other words, not only did they refuse to grant Alliance High Elves when the opportunity arose, they went out of their way to create a substitute.

    Your position is therefore aspirational in that you seek to have Blizzard change their minds.

    Yet that is much greater than petitioning for just a particular Allied race. Ultimately you do not agree with what seems to be internal rules for an Allied race, that there has to be a level of aesthetic difference between an existing race and a potential Allied race based upon it to justify it. This goes doubly or even triply for thalassian Elves on the Alliance and the Nightborne on the Horde, as their parent races are on the other faction.

    You argue that ideology is just as important a factor in terms of differentiation. Whilst a case could be made for that, I do not believe it applies to World of Warcraft, and your personal opinion that it should would be out of kilter with the rest of the game. No other proposed Allied race is suggested on the basis of ideology, each one has a level of aesthetic difference from a parent race (Mecha-Gnomes, San'layn). It is clear why this is the case, should ideology trump race then a case could be made for rebellious groups of any existing race to appear and attempt to join the other faction. Horde Dwarves, Alliance Tauren. It is the thin end of the wedge towards destroying the distinctive identities of the two factions because the two faction's identities are predicated on the races that comprise them.


    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    100% agree Half Elves are the better choice in every way as it fulfills what I am asking for. Yet I would also be content with just High Elves, so I support both ideas.
    High Elves I will resolutely oppose as an encroachment on a core Horde race that threatens the integrity of my faction and the identity of the Blood Elves as the High Elves of the Warcraft universe.

    Half Elves I couldn't care less about. Go nuts with trying to get them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    I mean, all that guy did was post hearsay. There's no recording of Ion saying any of that. Just two pictures of some guy standing next to Ion. If there's always a chance High Elves could happen, there's always the chance that guy is completely full of shit just trying to invigorate his "followers".

    But I'm glad to hear they aren't on the current agenda. I'm really skeptical that WoW will have more expansions at this rate. They'll really need to pull out some ace-in-the-holes. High Elves might be one of those, honestly. The game is in a very poor state, and I think Blizzard is, as well.

    Time will tell. In the meantime, let's chalk up another expansion in the tally...

    I follow the Allied race debate on the ARC discord as while I am opposed to High Elves, the overall topic of Allied races intrigues me and I am eager to see a Sethrak Allied race for the Alliance and I wish to show my support to that community there. Something interesting occurred a few weeks ago that shows the pitfalls of leaning too much on what an individual reports.

    Someone datamined files from the 8.1 ptr purporting to show a hi-res San'layn crest that some interpreted as evidence of a potential San'layn allied race. The same individual found files showing Silvermoon models and a High Elf tent with the initial assumption they had to do with an upcoming Silvermoon warfront (the High Elf tent being taken as evidence of High Elf participation).

    Except the files hadn't come from the PTR at all, the names had been altered to appear to be from the current PTR but they were actually from TBC or WOTLK or some earlier expansion where this content was introduced. People had gotten their hopes up based on this information and they were badly mislead by an individual who had gotten it badly wrong. I felt really bad for those players arguing for playable San'layn as the files had given them a measure of hope.

    Which is why what this individual reported should be taken with a truckload of salt. There is no record of the conversation between Ion and this individual. All we have is his summary which is of course prone to bias and maybe misleading, either deliberately or accidentally.

    Do I believe the conversation took place? Absolutely. Do I believe it unfolded exactly as described? Probably not, it's a summary written down after the fact and we cannot see what Ion said or parse any nuance in his answers . Yet even what Ion said to this individual, if taken at face value, was simply a restatement of what was said in the Q and A. That in the future, anything is possible. Which it is. But the future remains circumscribed by choices made in the past and present, and playable Alliance High Elves remain incredibly unlikely in a game with two thalassian elf options.

    Rather than a full fledged allied race (something which is going to become a lot rarer post BFA) if they are minded to respond on this topic they will probably try giving Void Elves some High Elf LIKE options, or allow cross faction grouping of some description so that Blood Elves can group with Humans and Dwarves (and everyone can group with everyone) and call it a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Rather than a full fledged allied race (something which is going to become a lot rarer post BFA) if they are minded to respond on this topic they will probably try giving Void Elves some High Elf LIKE options, or allow cross faction grouping of some description so that Blood Elves can group with Humans and Dwarves (and everyone can group with everyone) and call it a day.
    I'm sure it doesn't hurt to ask Ion directly through twitter if such a conversation took place, you did so before Kai when Kaira proved she spoke to Jeremy Feasel on potential of High Elves happening.

    At least with this last paragraph you see that there are a couple ways of handling the High Elf topic among Alliance, should Blizzard choose to do so, rather than constantly nagging that it will never happen.

  20. #8300
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    This bolded information was written during Vanilla WoW when the faction "Silver Covenant" wasn't existing in-game. Neither did the continent of Northrend. I think it goes without saying every expansion continues the lore forward. And with every expansion (aside WoD, maybe) there has been an ever increasing population of named High Elf NPCs factioned with the Alliance. With every expansion we are seeing more connections between High Elves and the Alliance. We have been introduced to Alleria's expedition in TBC, the Silver Covenant in Wrath, the SC siding with Alliance during MoP, the High Elves being mentioned among the Alliance by Elisande (she references Blood Elves among "misfits and monsters" aka Horde), High Elven mages among the ranks of the 7th Legion in BFA and seen walking around SW among Void Elves and being part of the Island Expedition team which Jeremy Feasel stated were "making interesting members of the opposing faction to fight" and what do we see on an Alliance team? A High Elf. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Frostfencer_Seraphi

    Island Exp video: https://youtu.be/XojQnSMkq-k?t=216

    6 out of 7 expansions has been slowly showcasing more and more Alliance High Elves, whether generic or unique named.

    Also, we have seen more instances of the idea of "Blood Elves coming back into the Alliance" rather than "High Elves (as in Alliance High Elves with Blue Eyes for any smartasses) going back to Horde". That reinforces this idea that the High Elves are very loyal to Alliance.
    Fair point, I'm just going off of the lore we've seen and written, and I've seen no source that outright says the Silver Covenant is the faction within the Alliance that contains the vast majority of High Elves. If there's no source that says it, then it's essentially head canon, which may or may not be true...it's just unconfirmed, whether or not it makes sense is not really the point, I just can't 100% accept it as the "truth" unless it's confirmed with some kind of official lore source, but I can admit it would make sense if it's true.

    I've never said the High Elves weren't loyal to the Alliance, they absolutely are. My point has been that, as a whole, the High Elves are not a faction that's loyal to the Alliance like the other races (except Human...in a way), they're a people who live within the Alliance and fight for it because they live there.

    Similar to real life. Nations have allegiances with other nations. The US has several allies: Germany, France, Japan, Australia, etc... In WoW, the other races would be like a national ally. For this example I'll just say Humans are the US, with the other races being one of the other nations. High Elves wouldn't be a separate nation, they'd be foreigners who have come to live in the US and become citizens and now fight for the US. The Silver Covenant would basically be an US fighting force comprised almost entirely of the foreigners-now-US citizens being lead by a highly prestigious foreigner.

    There's enough lore there to firmly establish them as a viable race to make playable, I think the lore reasoning Blizzard has been using up to this point, that their numbers are just too low to make a viable playable race, is also viable. And I also agree that giving the Alliance what would essentially amount to Blue Eyed Blood Elves with maybe some additional cosmetic options would detract from the Horde identity for Blood Elves, but now it would also detract from Void Elves since they're playable. However, Blizzard isn't really sticking to their guns on the numbers thing, because they keep introducing more and more High Elves. So...which is it Blizzard? Do they have numbers so low that they're dying out as a race or are there enough of them out there that you can keep throwing them at the Horde and yet STILL keep introducing more of them rather than see a dwindling High Elf population?

    I don't care either way, I just want the lore for it to make sense. Giving High Elf like cosmetic options to Void Elves would be stupid IMO and would please the aesthetic crowd, but at this point in time it wouldn't make sense from a Lore perspective and would quite obviously just be a way to get the pro Alliance High Elf crowd to STFU about it.
    Last edited by Katchii; 2018-11-30 at 03:15 PM.

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