Bellular is wrong and his kind of mentality is what is wrong with WoW

[Anaphaze]

The biggest problems with BFA is that Blizzard listened to too many of the youtube experts who were telling them that the effects on legendaries were too powerful and that weaker passive effects would be better, now that we have boring passive Azerite traits the same youtube experts are bemoaning how boring they are. Same with Artifact Power, all the people who were complaining that Artifact power was too beneficial and that it made people want to farm it are now crying that the much weaker Azerite Power isn't worth farming. The people complaining that Emerald Nightmare was too easy are now complaining that Uldir is too hard. Pretty much all of BFAs problems come down to Blizzard listening to feedback and not trusting their own years of game design experience.

This is just patently false and misleading. I get that a lot of you just blindly hate content creators or twitch streamers, but don't be misleading to the point of just flat out lying.

Blizzard didn't listen to "youtube experts". They didn't listen to anyone but themselves. The VAST majority of people hate azerite armor, warfronts, and the current class design. Content creators and random forum posters like us. You're insane if you think BFA is the result of listening to feedback, it's literally the exact opposite. There was feedback for months on the beta forums about all of the garbage features of BFA. They just didn't listen. Go ahead and continue to blindly blame content creators for whatever reason, but the fact of the matter is, this failure of an expansion is solely blizzards fault.

[Wyrt]

I don't know, he's certainly right that rewards are boring.

But I think the bigger underlying problem is the content is boring. If the content was fun to play then the reward being fun wouldn't really matter. It's when the content is bad that using super special rewards to get players to do it comes into play.

Now, obviously, in an ideal game both the content and the rewards would be fun and exciting. You can have a fun game without fun rewards, but fun rewards with boring content doesn't make for a very good game.

[Vexera]

Bellular, Heelvsbabyface, Asmongold, Preach... They've all been 100% spot on with their criticisms of the state of the game.

Asmongold uses other people's videos though, and does not ever really say anything unique. Not sure why he has such a following.

[Sulika]

This is just patently false and misleading. I get that a lot of you just blindly hate content creators or twitch streamers, but don't be misleading to the point of just flat out lying.

Blizzard didn't listen to "youtube experts". They didn't listen to anyone but themselves. The VAST majority of people hate azerite armor, warfronts, and the current class design. Content creators and random forum posters like us. You're insane if you think BFA is the result of listening to feedback, it's literally the exact opposite. There was feedback for months on the beta forums about all of the garbage features of BFA. They just didn't listen. Go ahead and continue to blindly blame content creators for whatever reason, but the fact of the matter is, this failure of an expansion is solely blizzards fault.

I'm not blaming the content creators for pretending to know game design, I'm blaming Blizzard for listening to them. If you look at the changes I listed, they were all based on community feedback but now the community is complaining because in their head when they were saying "it would be better if the legendary effects were all equal and passive" they somehow thought it would be great but in practice it turns out to be pretty rubbish as the azerite powers show.

The main problem with the youtube experts is that their suggestions are often either just plain bad or self contradictory. The complaints you hear about the AP system are that it is either too beneficial so you are forced to farm it (legion) or not beneficial enough so there is no point farming it (bfa) as if there is some mythical sweet spot in the middle where it is good enough that if you farm it you feel rewarded but not so good that you feel you have to farm it. Such a sweet spot doesn't exist and it takes all of two minutes of actual thought on the subject to realise that. Either a reward is worth the time it takes to farm or it isn't, it can't be both at the same time.

[Deleted]

Yes rewards are boring. Every casual own hundres of mounts, pets, titles, achievements, etc... Nobady cares about this type of rewards anymore. Instead of pumping 50 more useless mounts into the game why not create 5-10 mounts per expansion. Very rare what you can set as your goal fo different activities. Also made those mounts different from other like Long boy for example. Not just by look but also by utility. How abo add mount customization than mount rewards will be exciting. If you add another generic horse for rep grind what most people just learn and dont care about it for rest of days than whats even point creating such reward. Same for everything els. Why there is no cosmetic vendor for achievement points is also beyond me. Etc.

[draynay]

I think there are enough things wrong with WoW that everyone can be right about what's wrong with the game. Needs better repeatable content, better class balance, better rewards, why not?

[Scrysis]

WoWs repeatable content isn't fun anymore because the vessel you use to play through it - your class; has been neutered beyond belief.

BfAs failures begin and end with Class Design and the complete and utter lack of character progression past level 100.

I can relate to this.

[Kallor]

There's just way too much boring stuff to do in WoW. It's become a completionist heaven, for gamers who (seemingly) don't like to have fun, and set mundane goals for themselves, running a dungeon hundreds of times over and over again to get a mount.

Also - Transmog is death.

[Deleted]

I had more fun this 2 weeks doing the Blackhand Breadth and Paladin Mount chain quests, than logging on wed clearing uldir myth, do a +10 and log off.

[Akka]

I'd say the problem is EXCESS rewards.
There is too many rewards in the game, and it cheapen their value. It's like, in Diablo, when you see a wall of meaningless items drop from a boss, and then mentally ignore 90 % of it because it's just clutter.
On the opposite side, play Vanilla WoW at low level, a even white item can feel nice to get because it's an actual improvement and you know you'll use it for awhile before replacing it.

The important word is : moderation.

[Deleted]

>Bellular gives spot on criticism on WoW
>Drones on MMOC "DURR HE IS GETTING ENTITLED BECUZ HE WENT TO SOME GAME DESIGN LESSON DURR"

How patethic you can be mmo c users? At least he is doing something rather than comment about him from your basement.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd say the problem is EXCESS rewards.

Pretty much this, we have TOO MUCH LOOT paired with TOO MUCH RNG.

[Deleted]

You can give us a lot of stuff if there is some moderation ( that usually collide with gating )

For example :

Heritage Armor, instead of begin " level this to 120 " they could just make a chain quest over 4 weeks that let you unlocks X pieces of xmog every weeks.

You will works toward your reward and since it isn't an istant gratification it will give you a sense of progression and accomplishment.

I know that " but timegating " can be a problem for some people but it is a way to de-toxicate player from the " gogogo fast packed playing " that literally corrode the basic of a RPG.

RPG are meant to be a journey not to be " log do m+ get bored 3 month into launch "


In BfA there is the month gated daily quest for the Pterodactyl Mount that is a nice example of " working towards a reward " even if Blizzard ruined it making it unable to fly for no reason.
--------

Another example of working towards a reward could be PvE and PvP vendors, I still can't understand how Blizzard ignored putting those vendor into the game ( ofc I know is to diluite the game and the play time )

You see that there is an item you want from the vendor? Well farm the currency.
No RNG no cancer.
Same for PvP.

Reputation?
How many played vanilla back in the day or emh recently?

The Cenarion Circle Reputation was giving the Earthstrike Trinket, a huge Trinket at the time.

Now by the time my main or Alt is Exalted with any BfA or Legion reputation, I already outgeared any rewards.
Why?????

Professions gives nothing, ye the crafting from Uldir well amazing job if I can't do anything with sanguicell after that.

[arr0gance]

The biggest problems with BFA is that Blizzard listened to too many of the youtube experts who were telling them that the effects on legendaries were too powerful and that weaker passive effects would be better, now that we have boring passive Azerite traits the same youtube experts are bemoaning how boring they are. Same with Artifact Power, all the people who were complaining that Artifact power was too beneficial and that it made people want to farm it are now crying that the much weaker Azerite Power isn't worth farming. The people complaining that Emerald Nightmare was too easy are now complaining that Uldir is too hard. Pretty much all of BFAs problems come down to Blizzard listening to feedback and not trusting their own years of game design experience.

Blizzard mentioned from the beginning that both Legendaries and Artifacts were something which would be exclusive to Legion. I doubt it has much, if anything, to do with "listening to YouTube experts." Azerite is intended to replace both set bonuses and Legendaries. It's new. It's different. It's almost universally reviled. There's a high probability Azerite won't make it to the next expansion but it's a bit narrow-minded to lump all of BfA's issues into "listening to feedback."

[Artelia]

There is another problem that people can't see.

Question: WHY you want gear for your character? Why you want bigger ilvl?

It's simple. To be stronger and get power to...kill things. Better gear is fastest kill. Bigger ilvl is for flex and for personal feeling of better player character.

And this is problem with World of Warcraft. Every patch your old gear is useless. Every expansion mythic raider and new fresh character is same in terms of power. No matter how many mythic + you complete. No matter if you finish mythic raid first in whole world. Two years and you are noting. Fresh green noting that people refuse in their mythic +2.

But...do we have any other way? I doubt.... So focus on cosmetics is...exactly last weak try to force people to do their content until big ...really big change happen.

So he is wrong. But he is'nt in same time.

Only cosmetic rewards , mounts and pets matter because only these things will stay with you for whole year to next expansion and beyond.

[PaladinBash]

WoWs repeatable content isn't fun anymore because the vessel you use to play through it - your class; has been neutered beyond belief.

BfAs failures begin and end with Class Design and the complete and utter lack of character progression past level 100.

Have to agree here big time. Ret paladin is far less fun than Legion for obvious reasons (no legendaries, tier, low haste at this gear level etc) and it makes the class unfun by comparison in day to day play. I'd play that shit all the fucking time whether it gave me anything or not.

[Th3Scourge]

Asmongold uses other people's videos though, and does not ever really say anything unique. Not sure why he has such a following.

Mostly yes this is true but he has probably been more on point with his direct criticisms of the state of the game than anyone else. I didn't really have an opinion on him before BfA, but I can see value in his opinions about the game now. Especially considering his audience on twitch alone is more than double the second-most viewed

[Deleted]

Blizzard mentioned from the beginning that both Legendaries and Artifacts were something which would be exclusive to Legion. I doubt it has much, if anything, to do with "listening to YouTube experts." Azerite is intended to replace both set bonuses and Legendaries. It's new. It's different. It's almost universally reviled. There's a high probability Azerite won't make it to the next expansion but it's a bit narrow-minded to lump all of BfA's issues into "listening to feedback."

Also because putting in the same sentence " BfA " and " listening to feedback " is a bit hilarious imho.

[arr0gance]

Also because putting in the same sentence " BfA " and " listening to feedback " is a bit hilarious imho.

Too many people are obsessed with "figuring it out." There seems to be a prevailing need in many of these discussions for players to make remarks about how they've cracked the code and know exactly why the expansion is failing. Honestly, it's not much worse now than it's ever been at any other point in the game's history; but the relative radio silence from developers so far this expansion sure has seemed to stoke the conspiracy flames.

[Th3Scourge]

Bell's and Preach's criticisms are more reasonable and thought through than Heelvsbabyface's and Asmongold's though. Not saying the latter are 100% wrong, but they are mostly myopic and more like that rambling nagging drunk Uncle at the Christmas family gathering that with the best will in the world you are trying to find a coherent and sensible interpretation of his polarized oversimplified rant for but the effort is more than it is worth and he'll never understand the nuances and underlying forces at work no matter how much you are trying to explain it to him.

Az from Heelvsbabyface and Asmongold are certainly more.. hyperbolic. And I'm fine with that because it's for entertainment value, but that doesn't discredit their criticisms. I probably like Az the most because he's a pure cynical British bastard and it's hilarious.

Bellular has really surprised me with how critical he's been considering the work he has done for Blizz in promoting BfA on youtube leading up to launch. Preach has always been critical constructively and I probably align with players like him more than others in the way he doesn't care about bullshit pets and mounts

[cocomen2]

Its funny as Asmo****d fun boys love him and redy to bend knee and post his low-quality videos every day at mmo-c, and then say he is not toxic, he said all right thing..... nah whining every day HOW bad is game but still playing it ONLY to get donnations from his slave-fallowers.