Was Dagran Thaurissan actually bad?

[Felixon]

In vanilla,Magni sends us on a mission to kill Dagran Thaurissan who supposedly kidnapped Moira. In the Cataclysm, we discover,that she actually was not held prisoner and that she was mad at us for killing her husband. If you read about his character, it's said,that he was a servant of Ragnaros or more like a leader of the Dark Iron clan,who were the slaves of Ragnaros at that time. It's also said,that he wanted to conquer the other dwarven clans,but not for the sake of conquering,but also because he wanted to unite them together to stand against the Ragnaros.

Lorewise,he was killed during the vanilla,yet Blizzard was lazy enough not to update the Blackrock Depths, and thus, even with the whole Cataclysm revamp he still resides in there. I am also wondering if it's possible to write the story for the dark iron character in the way,that they took actual part in his demise - that doesn't fit well with the whole idea of Moira - don't think she would be too happy to see among her armies ranks somebody,who was one of those,who killed her husband.

[Feanoro]

He liked the sorcerer's powers given by Rags, but not the servitude. The plan was to conquer and rule the other Dwarves, not just lead them against Rags, and kidnapping Moira was originally to use her as a hostage. That plan went out the window when he fell for her, and it doesn't excuse him.

[Chonar]

Moira fell for a 'bad boy', the fear of every father.

Dagran rolled up in his Dark iron chopper and black dragonleather jacket, tucked down his goblin sunshades and eyeballed Moira and said "ey bby u wanna go smoke behind the 7/11" and Moira was like "tee hee yes pls my father's a bore" and Dagran was like "aw shit bby u can hang at my pad".

And then we killed him.
And then we killed his ghost in Blackwing Descent, just to be sure.

[Felixon]

And then we killed his ghost in Blackwing Descent, just to be sure.

Hah,poor dwarf. I never felt pity for him,until I ran the Blackrock Depths yesterday and started to think - except Magni,who else did say that he was bad? Yes,he was the leader of the Dark Irons,who were slaves of Ragnaros and many of whom were members of the Twilight Hammer. Did he have a choice? Could the dark irons alone resist the Ragnaros? No.
I,personally,was trying to write a story for my dark iron character,who was against the of Thaurissan,but I guess it's quite impossible to write him in the way,that he took part in his downfall.

[Venziir]

Moira fell for a 'bad boy', the fear of every father.

Dagran rolled up in his Dark iron chopper and black dragonleather jacket, tucked down his goblin sunshades and eyeballed Moira and said "ey bby u wanna go smoke behind the 7/11" and Moira was like "tee hee yes pls my father's a bore" and Dagran was like "aw shit bby u can hang at my pad".

And then we killed him.
And then we killed his ghost in Blackwing Descent, just to be sure.

That ghost is the father of Dagran though (https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sorcerer-Thane_Thaurissan) and not Dagran himself.

[Donald Hellscream]

Well yes, he wanted to conquer all the other dwarven clans.
Regardless of his intentions that makes him a tyrant and tyrants are bad.

[Fetus Rex]

No. Just a visionary.

[Velerios]

He was a servant of Ragnaros, an entity that destroyed the entire region around BRM. Also he held various people from both factions as slaves as we can see it in Searing Gouge. So yes, he was definitively not a good guy.

[Felixon]

He was a servant of Ragnaros, an entity that destroyed the entire region around BRM. Also he held various people from both factions as slaves as we can see it in Searing Gouge. So yes, he was definitively not a good guy.

He was a servant indeed. Yet was he his servant willingly? Don't think so. His "duties" to Ragnaros was a part of his fathers legacy - a true villain,who actually summoned Ragnaros into the Azeroth.

[procne]

In the Cataclysm, we discover,that she actually was not held prisoner and that she was mad at us for killing her husband.

It was already known in vanilla, it was enough to talk to her after killing him. She was standing right next beside him in the dungeon

[Soeroah]

I don't think it took until Cataclysm to learn she hadn't been captured. My recollection is she mentioned it pretty right after the fight, told us to **** off and disappeared, leaving Magni going "wut" and Thrall going "oh god damn it that backfired".

I suppose with the lack of quest text being detailed back in Classic it was probably 50/50 whether she was still under the effect of mind control, but I'm relatively certain Cataclysm was simply when Moira made good on her promise to take over Ironforge.

As for whether he was bad.. my recollection is that he isn't EVIL bad, but he was still a Dark Iron who hated the Bronzebeards and wanted to make Ironforge pay for ousting his people. He was a dick, but he was able to respect even the daughter of his hated enemies enough to marry her - though I think he had her kidnapped in the first place?

I guess this is one of those iffy spots. He was by no means good, but I wouldn't call him Gul'dwarf. Misunderstood and problematic, perhaps.

[Felixon]

I don't think it took until Cataclysm to learn she hadn't been captured. My recollection is she mentioned it pretty right after the fight, told us to **** off and disappeared, leaving Magni going "wut" and Thrall going "oh god damn it that backfired".

I suppose with the lack of quest text being detailed back in Classic it was probably 50/50 whether she was still under the effect of mind control, but I'm relatively certain Cataclysm was simply when Moira made good on her promise to take over Ironforge.

As for whether he was bad.. my recollection is that he isn't EVIL bad, but he was still a Dark Iron who hated the Bronzebeards and wanted to make Ironforge pay for ousting his people. He was a dick, but he was able to respect even the daughter of his hated enemies enough to marry her - though I think he had her kidnapped in the first place?

I guess this is one of those iffy spots. He was by no means good, but I wouldn't call him Gul'dwarf. Misunderstood and problematic, perhaps.

Yeah,but when you start to think why did the whole War of Three Hammer's happen,it's probably because of the way Bronzebeards treated other clans and the Dark Irons living in the poor areas of Ironforge,which lead to the uprising,which ultimately failed.

[procne]

If you read about his character, it's said,that he was a servant of Ragnaros or more like a leader of the Dark Iron clan,who were the slaves of Ragnaros at that time. It's also said,that he wanted to conquer the other dwarven clans,but not for the sake of conquering,but also because he wanted to unite them together to stand against the Ragnaros.

From what I remember Thaurissan summoned and wanted to use Ragnaros against other dwarf clans, but that backfired and Ragnaros instead enslaved dark iron dwarves, and used them to fight the black dragonflight, which was residing at the top of the spire

[Soeroah]

From what I remember Thaurissan summoned and wanted to use Ragnaros against other dwarf clans, but that backfired and Ragnaros instead enslaved dark iron dwarves, and used them to fight the black dragonflight, which was residing at the top of the spire

That was the ancestor of Moira's dead husband, not him. I keep forgetting myself.

So he was always a slave to Ragnaros, not the guy who summoned him for the purpose of conquering.

[Mosotti]

He was a presumably tough guy with a big dick, and Moira was a little whore. In the end he wasn't that tough, they were all killed by a 5 man commando.

[Zandalariprelate]

He is 1 of the few gray characters from WoW, vanilla was a lot more interesting back in the day, mostly because a lot of secondary to side characters used to had interesting arcs and the morality was more ambiguos

[Felixon]

He is 1 of the few gray characters from WoW, vanilla was a lot more interesting back in the day, mostly because a lot of secondary to side characters used to had interesting arcs and the morality was more ambiguos

Blizzard likes to make you kill off somebody and than make you feel bad about it - just look at Edwin VanCleef.A guy,who was portrayed as a jerk in vanilla,in cataclysm was painted as misunderstood fighter for freedom against the festering Stormwind aristocracy.

[Zandalariprelate]

Blizzard likes to make you kill off somebody and than make you feel bad about it - just look at Edwin VanCleef.A guy,who was portrayed as a jerk in vanilla,in cataclysm was painted as misunderstood fighter for freedom against the festering Stormwind aristocracy.

Yeah even guys like Illidan, Arthas, Neltharion and others you could feel sorry for them, now the only characters left are outright stupid or cartoonish evil that you can barely get atached to them, I bet Anduin will be morned only in-game while the playerbase will rejoice with his replacement and well the horde has been shit for a long time that only a few characters are loved, oh well I guess they want to bring old characters for nostalgia or build better plots, I mean the friggin illidan current character arc is more interesting and better writed than the current expansion plot for f sake

[Kyphael]

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

What did Emperor Thaurissan do with the power granted by Ragnaros? He waged war and antagonized the other dwarf clans? Was he justified because he felt wronged? Maybe, mortals in his position are sometimes in unwinnable political situations. You can't make nice and make things better for your people if the King in power shrugs at your issues and exiles you. But while perhaps justified, what Thaurissan did with his position of power is telling in what his moral character was. Someone who will go to self-destructive extremes and live for revenge instead of trying to rise above it.

[Powerogue]

On a similar note we found out that the DI dwarf we killed for his monocle transmog was actually innocent and his daughter was the one stealing designs from other dwarves.

Let's be honest, knowing that we're still going to kill him for that monocle.