Bellular is wrong and his kind of mentality is what is wrong with WoW

[The Stormbringer]

That's just false. Most classes played way better during MoP and WoD. Even people that hated these two expansion usually agree on that, you're just making shit up.

Agreed. I'd even argue that classes played considerably better in Legion because of all the Artifact abilities and traits we had, though not quite as good as MoP or WoD.

[Onikaroshi]

Ah yes, the only issue BfA has is that your class has lost some abilities. That makes sense, especially given the fact that many classes didn't lose much at all.

It's the continued loss with little gain.

Behold the "evolution" of the ret paladin (minus cooldowns)

Wrath: Judge, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath, Hammer of Wrath as execute (7 abilities)
Cata: Judge, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath, Inquisition, Hammer of Wrath as execute (8 abilities, holy power introduced)
MoP: Judge, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Exorcism, Execution Sentence/Light's Hammer/Holy Prism, Inquisition, Hammer of Wrath as execute (7 abilities, auras removed)
WoD: Judge, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Exorcism, Execution Sentence/Light's Hammer/Holy Prism, Hammer of Wrath as execute (6 abilities, random utility and "fun" ability removal)
Legion: Judge, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Divine Hammer(or blade), Wake of Ashes (5 Abilities, seals removed)
BfA: Judge, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Blade of Justice, Consecration/Wake of Ashes (5 abilities, wake of ashes moved to talent instead of being made baseline)

Add to the the loss of: Decent talent system that rewarded leveling (I used to believe the old old talents were boring, but having re-experienced it lately, it was not as many "increase X by Y%" talents as people say, and was really nice to get something every level); Reforging; Hit, Expertise, ArP, and numerous other secondaries, just to boil it down to "equip highest ilvl lol"; guaranteed gem slots and slot bonus's; random utility abilities and just about all "noncombat" abilities; and many other things

It just makes classes less fun to play and gear less fun to get then in the past.

[netherflame]

Exactly. I just remember what my class used to be and then I just feel like shit when I am pressing my few buttons I have left that have little to no interaction between each other. Holy paladin is a shell of its former self. This expansion is Legion 0.5. 7.0 already pruned every class to make room for the artifacts and then they stripped away the artifacts leaving us with nothing. And now 8.1 will barely make any changes at all.

So curious but how many buttons do you think you should have on a class? I personally don't want to go back to these days, or as a vanilla player the days where I had multiple ranks of the same spell on my bars....

Things like this are just showing the problem we used to have where the game had way too many buttons and it make the game really difficult for new players to learn.

[crono14]

It's not just one thing wrong with the game. Yes the rewards do suck, but that is just a small problem imo. Overall classes are not fun to play and won't get any better with patches this expansion. Between pruning, GCD changes, and lack of any new abilities while leveling makes the game feel so boring and slow.

When you start tossing in boring content as well on top of terrible gameplay and class deisgn, now everything just starts to spiral. World Quests scaling/ IE's and WF's are awful and boring/ Azerite gear being boring and overall loot RNG are just many of the issues facing the game right now.


Unfortunately though, I think they are just pruning WoW enough to a point where it can go on console/mobile platforms which would be disappointing. To me there is no journey anymore in the game, or an RPG aspect to the game. No sense of exploration in the game as well. Everything is very calculated and you only do content according to what Blizzard thinks is fun and wants you to do.

[The Stormbringer]

So curious but how many buttons do you think you should have on a class? I personally don't want to go back to these days, or as a vanilla player the days where I had multiple ranks of the same spell on my bars....

Things like this are just showing the problem we used to have where the game had way too many buttons and it make the game really difficult for new players to learn. [IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/10opjmh.jpg

Sure, but there's a point where you can compromise between 'so many abilities it's intimidating' to 'I miss X, Y, and Z and then some'.

FFXIV, in my opinion, has a few too many abilities, but they seem willing to embrace the bloat and make ways to keep it fun and interesting.

[Lenarific]

What is wrong with WOW? Easy laziness

[Deleted]

So curious but how many buttons do you think you should have on a class? I personally don't want to go back to these days, or as a vanilla player the days where I had multiple ranks of the same spell on my bars....

Things like this are just showing the problem we used to have where the game had way too many buttons and it make the game really difficult for new players to learn.

Wow that is one of the worst UI's I've ever seen. Half of those aren't even class ablities.

[SilenceRedo]

Bellular is an idiot. Nobody can take seriously someone who isn't even at a heroic raiding level.

[korijenkins]

Gameplay and class design are the main issues, but the quality of content needs to be better too.

[Sylarian]

I think OP is right but so is Bellular. It is not what is wrong with WoW currently like OP states. What Bellular is describing has been what was wrong with WoW since The Burning Crusade. For over 10 years are gone of the days of hard to obtain epics and amazing tier gear. The phrase Welfare Epics starting in BC and then the community got used to seeing purple. Seeing someone in full tier 2 in Stormwind, there was nothing like it, it was so cool to see. Now you no longer have that type of connection to late game content anymore. It died when tier gear did and was on rocky ground even since purple gear was easy to obtain. That is what Bellular is describing however it is not the real problem with BFA like OP states.

[RuneDK]

So curious but how many buttons do you think you should have on a class? I personally don't want to go back to these days, or as a vanilla player the days where I had multiple ranks of the same spell on my bars....

Things like this are just showing the problem we used to have where the game had way too many buttons and it make the game really difficult for new players to learn.

I agree it shouldnt go back to this...but it shouldnt be where it's at now...you should have enough stuff to fill close to two bars fully...then additional ones are consumables and macros.

[Onikaroshi]

Wow that is one of the worst UI's I've ever seen. Half of those aren't even class ablities.

Shit, well over half of those aren't, and only the bottom 1-7 are even rotational.

[Zenfoldor]

I think he's right, honestly. Class design is always complained about(even though, for the sake of this argument, I will concede it is not currently good, just to keep on point).

There is no motivation to do the content that lasts over the entire expansion. There is little or nothing of value that you get from doing it, so I play a lot less.

In Legion, I wanted legendaries. I did emissaries every day, I did a daily heroic, I did every difficulty of every raid nearly every week towards the end(besides mythic). I did mythic+ the same amount I do it now(once a week).

Perhaps this was because I was very late getting my BIS legendary. However, I always logged in and felt I was progressing my character with each play session all because of legendaries. They lasted past this raid tier. They were an item that truly improved my toon the entire xpak. Even when I got a bad one, that was just one less I needed to clear off the plate on my way to a good one. I had 2 specs, so I got them all for each spec. I had a lot of fun working towards a goal that lasted the entire xpak.

Now there is no reason to do this content for me. Doing emissaries, or daily heroic, or LFR will grant me nothing that matters, and I can safely not do them, ever.

There are other problems. Making raid gear generic has taken some of the luster out of raid loot, which(raid loot) is the only reason I still play really. Nothing is mandatory, and it seems you can farm gear that is equivalent to raid gear from mythic+. This makes raiding less rewarding and less rewarding = less fun, for me at least.

I never grind for AP and I won't grind for what we have now, because of the futility of it. It is time gated, so it doesn't feel like something I'm building over the whole xpak. Anyway, my 2 cents.

[Raven]

Like @Slowpoke is a Gamer told me, what WoW needs is "fun repeatable content"
And i would add on top of that, create a design structure of gameplay that promotes the community helping eachother out.

Wow community helping someone else out, thats a good joke, sure there are some that would help others, but most is just out for themself and would never stop to help someone and if you would ask them a question a answer would probably be in the line of, l2p noob, just google it or the good old f**k off.

[Nnyco]

when you say "we" i take it you mean people from your guild? and if thats the case, if anyone did receive a ban, it was warranted, No real Mythic Raider needs a bot to play for them!

"We" as in we on mmo-champion, and there were shit ton of threads about that during that time.

[Deleted]

WoWs repeatable content isn't fun anymore because the vessel you use to play through it - your class; has been neutered beyond belief.

BfAs failures begin and end with Class Design and the complete and utter lack of character progression past level 100.

Back in style I agree.

[Deleted]

Bellular is an idiot. Nobody can take seriously someone who isn't even at a heroic raiding level.

So why I have to listen to a LFR Hero opnion?

- - - Updated - - -

So curious but how many buttons do you think you should have on a class? I personally don't want to go back to these days, or as a vanilla player the days where I had multiple ranks of the same spell on my bars....

Things like this are just showing the problem we used to have where the game had way too many buttons and it make the game really difficult for new players to learn.

No offence but that is one of the worst UI i ever saw.

[Teri]

500 mounts, hundreds that do (almost) the exact same thing, isn't interesting.

But gameplay wise, the 4 difficulties and titanforging is even worse.

[RuneDK]

So why I have to listen to a LFR Hero opnion?

- - - Updated - - -



No offence but that is one of the worst UI i ever saw.

If you played Vanilla you'd know it was a standard UI for most classes...I had three bars worth of shit as a mage and then utilized the side bars for other stuff....and i mostly just spammed frostbolt or fireball depending on the raid.

[Beet]

Nah he’s 100% right. This is partially why people cared so much about loot in the old days of WoW. You got to look badass and feel badass. Even with gear that was crappy like much of tier 1 from Molten Core, you still couldn’t wait to get it.

Another issue is that Blizzard changed the power of weapon upgrades a long time ago. You no longer notice a gigantic difference when you get that new shiny weapon. They gotta do something to make loot rewards feel great again imo