What Happens When Trump Falls?

[Kujako]

He flails around on his back making a high pitched screeching sound until someone helps him up?

[Felya]

Just interested in all. NVM then.

Why would that be interesting in this thread? Now you got me interested...

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He flails around on his back making a high pitched screeching sound until someone helps him up?

It’s a set up for ‘yo mama’ jokes... Yo mama is so fat, when she busted her knee, gravy poured out...

[NED funded]

Skroe, i'd reccomend you to not engage with that poster. For your mental well being.

Infracted - Contribute to the thread when posting

Ill pray for you @Thepersona . Victim of fash opression

Ot: Ironic that france is having a working class revolution, that place is pink af and filled with many powerful unions. Youth unemployment is the result of them not caving not of some weird force of globalization.

[Kokolums]

The second most popular political figure among republicans after Trump is Putin.

Its entirely possible that Putin takes control of the GOP if Trump is politically destroyed and you wind up in civil war.

Trump has worked hard to define the Mueller investigation as a witch hunt to his base and to claim it is a coup if he is removed. If he is actually removed, and GOP leadership signals they approve of his removal while rank and file GOP members disagree, and then Putin steps in and challenges the removal and calls it a coup, Putin could grab control of the GOP.

[Felya]

The second most popular political figure among republicans after Trump is Putin.

Its entirely possible that Putin takes control of the GOP if Trump is politically destroyed and you wind up in civil war.

No, that’s absolutely devoid of reality. It’s not even legal... also, Putin attacking US, is not a civil war.

[Kokolums]

No, that’s absolutely devoid of reality. It’s not even legal... also, Putin attacking US, is not a civil war.

The way it would start is Putin would call it a coup, rank and file members of the GOP would riot and call it a coup, and civil unrest breaks out all over the place. Then with the US destabilizing and fighting getting worse, Putin sends in his troops to support the GOP side. Putin wouldn't initiate, he would step in as support.

[Felya]

Trump has worked hard to define the Mueller investigation as a witch hunt to his base and to claim it is a coup if he is removed. If he is actually removed, and GOP leadership signals they approve of his removal while rank and file GOP members disagree, and then Putin steps in and challenges the removal and calls it a coup, Putin could grab control of the GOP.

Hell of a witch hunt, when Putin steps in to help. WTF?

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The way it would start is Putin would call it a coup, rank and file members of the GOP would riot and call it a coup, and civil unrest breaks out all over the place. Then with the US destabilizing and fighting getting worse, Putin sends in his troops to support the GOP side. Putin wouldn't initiate, he would step in as support.

Putin has been calling the US a pariah for decades. What you are describing is an attack on US, by Russia. As in, US millitary... not conspiracy theorist...

[Kokolums]

Hell of a witch hunt, when Putin steps in to help. WTF?

America is on the cusp of civil war and there are a slew of scenarios it can happen, but the thing to remember is that in ALL of them, the alt right wins because in ALL scenarios, they resolve with Russia and China sending troops to the US to fight alongside the GOP faction. The democrats are about to lose a civil war.

[Felya]

America is on the cusp of civil war and there are a slew of scenarios it can happen, but the thing to remember is that in ALL of them, the alt right wins because in ALL scenarios, they resolve with Russia and China sending troops to the US to fight alongside the GOP faction. The democrats are about to lose a civil war.

Russia and China attacking the US, is not a Civil war! Believing that US is on cusp of a civil war, means you have never left your house. It’s absurd lunacy...

[smityx]

Trump needs to be removed he is a moron and completely unqualified, I also loathe and hate Mike Pence too, but Mike Pence is capable, I would have ZERO truck with Mike Pence as President. I would still work and fight his policies, but I wouldn't worry about the U.S is in danger, and Pence unless he plans to take up the mantle in Trump's war on PoC and Women and people that disagree with him, then I would simply accept Pence as President.

Pence strikes me as someone who can be more reasonable and more importantly accountable, I could be wrong but we'll see.


As for Trump if once impeached and removed, I don't think it should end period with him, until he is in prison and his organization is taken apart piece by piece exposed for who and what he is for historic record and hopefully left or right as a warning about stupidity and populism.

Hopefully when all is said and done Trump is nothing more than an * in history books.

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The way it would start is Putin would call it a coup, rank and file members of the GOP would riot and call it a coup, and civil unrest breaks out all over the place. Then with the US destabilizing and fighting getting worse, Putin sends in his troops to support the GOP side. Putin wouldn't initiate, he would step in as support.

HAHA nothing would reunite the US more than foreign troops on US soil whether it be Russian or UN troops.

[Teleros]

America is on the cusp of civil war and there are a slew of scenarios it can happen, but the thing to remember is that in ALL of them, the alt right wins because in ALL scenarios, they resolve with Russia and China sending troops to the US to fight alongside the GOP faction. The democrats are about to lose a civil war.

Hardly.

Firstly, foreign powers aren't going to want to touch a US civil war with a thousand-mile barge pole in case someone tosses nukes in their direction. They'd have to be pretty damn certain that the factions they were opposed to didn't have access to any nukes. Even if the guys they're opposed to lack the ability to launch them at Russia or China (let's suppose all USN ballistic missile subs, ICBMs, bombers etc are accounted for), you don't want one smuggled into a port and detonated either.

Second, the most likely result of a new US civil war is balkanisation, a situation which will probably suit Russia & China just fine, because it means no single power controlling all that territory and all those resources. In terms of great power politics, they can remain neutral and let the USA get carved up, leaving them in a superior position on the world stage.

Third, I very much doubt that US white nationalists have the stamina to ethnically cleanse the US of everyone they oppose. We're talking tens of millions kicked out and/or killed - I think the WNs would be exhausted by the fighting long before that point is reached (see point two above). In the much longer term then sure, a white American nation might try to reunite the continental USA, but at that point we're so far ahead of the present that wondering what China & Russia will think is something of a minor issue :P .

Fourth, if Russian or Chinese troops go to fight, what makes you think they won't stay? The Chinese especially won't give a damn about wholesale exterminations and such - heck they did it to their own people in the Great Leap Forwards, so what makes you think they won't want a genuine Chinese colony on the west coast, when their soldiers are already in place and all that?

[Felya]

Hopefully when all is said and done Trump is nothing more than an * in history books.

More like a punch line... you thought Bush was was bad, wait a chapter...

HAHA nothing would reunite the US more than foreign troops on US soil whether it be Russian or UN troops.

Can you imagine Russians and Chines marching with altright screaming about globalization and how Jews will not replace them. I would love to see Chines in a altright liberation parade. Here is a float for the savior of the altright... the red symbolizes the communism and the character in the corner with a dunce cap, is us...

[smityx]

Can you imagine Russians and Chines marching with altright screaming about globalization and how Jews will not replace them. I would love to see Chines in a altright liberation parade. Here is a float for the savior of the altright... the red symbolizes the communism and the character in the corner with a dunce cap, is us...

I really don't see Rus or Chin troops in the US. If the US was destabilized both would be using the opportunity to attack their neighbors. Putin would get his wish of restoring the USSR via land grabs in former Soviet states if not further. China would be reclaiming Taiwan etc, and increasing it's might in the their region of the world at which point there will inevitably be an increase in tensions between the 2 new super powers China and Russia which would keep their troops at home protecting their borders from each other and their new territories. Japan, Germany and France would also rearm themselves quite quickly as well. Which at that point... well WWIII can't be that far behind and then it's over for everyone.

[Blur4stuff]

There's not going to be a civil war.

Removing Trump and his people is like draining a wound of puss. You clean it out so the healing can begin. Dems will take over and just like with Clinton and Obama we can move in a better direction for awhile.

Fast forward a decade and the current republican base will have dramatically shrunk. They will be forced to change their position on many issues like climate change, healthcare, etc... the only exception to this I see possible will be abortion. Once the GOP is no longer so radical they will be less harmful to the country. The future isn't that bad looking, but we are going to be suffering a bit in the present.

[Theodarzna]

There's not going to be a civil war.

Removing Trump and his people is like draining a wound of puss. You clean it out so the healing can begin. Dems will take over and just like with Clinton and Obama we can move in a better direction for awhile.

Fast forward a decade and the current republican base will have dramatically shrunk. They will be forced to change their position on many issues like climate change, healthcare, etc... the only exception to this I see possible will be abortion. Once the GOP is no longer so radical they will be less harmful to the country. The future isn't that bad looking, but we are going to be suffering a bit in the present.

The direction they moved however was directly towards the election of Trump. I mean, one came after those two, so It is hard to envision why you wouldn't simply repeat the same events.

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Yes I understand that you believe no meaningful change happened under Obama, my question was what sort of changes were you hoping to see from him.

Obama made changes, all presidencies etc do make changes but many of those changes accelerated forces that led to the election of Donald Trump. The economy struggled, many are underemployed and struggling, and his answers often were tone deaf. Indeed Democrats answers often missed the point as Job retraining is fairly unrealistic at the pace of change that is happening. More over asking people to persue never ending short term gigs moving from place to place while that same party intends to add thousands, tens of thousands, heck maybe a hundred thousand new competitors in every year for you to fight against for insecure temp work and no benefits is just a bad political program.

Looking to the fawning beatification of Robert Mueller, one of the demons that peddled the Iraq War and the embodiment of all that is bad about the American government is now a saintly figure to them. The only hope seems to be clawing power back into the hands of wicked people.

[Skroe]

The direction they moved however was directly towards the election of Trump. I mean, one came after those two, so It is hard to envision why you wouldn't simply repeat the same events.

Other politicians have tried to emulate Trump. It doesn't work.

Trump is a kind of one of a kind. And Americans have a long history of inconsistency with their political direction. Donald Trump was what... the 4th or 5th "change" President in the last 40 years? Trump, Obama, Clinton, Carter and Nixon all explicitly ran on "change" platforms. Sometimes using the word explicitly. Sometimes not.

Trump will likely be followed by another "change" President, or a George W. Bush style "return to the status que ante" President. And Americans will go for it.

Your point relies on a majority of American voters to want to sample the same thing twice. They don't do that. Not even Reagan and George H.W. Bush, being back to back Presidents, were that.

Obama made changes, all presidencies etc do make changes but many of those changes accelerated forces that led to the election of Donald Trump. The economy struggled, many are underemployed and struggling, and his answers often were tone deaf. Indeed Democrats answers often missed the point as Job retraining is fairly unrealistic at the pace of change that is happening. More over asking people to persue never ending short term gigs moving from place to place while that same party intends to add thousands, tens of thousands, heck maybe a hundred thousand new competitors in every year for you to fight against for insecure temp work and no benefits is just a bad political program.

The overwhelming majority of the labor force is not this. Furthermore, the best avenue to a career, rather than "short term gigs" remains education.

Looking to the fawning beatification of Robert Mueller, one of the demons that peddled the Iraq War and the embodiment of all that is bad about the American government is now a saintly figure to them. The only hope seems to be clawing power back into the hands of wicked people.

Oh give me a break, Little Miss Contrarian

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There's not going to be a civil war.

Removing Trump and his people is like draining a wound of puss. You clean it out so the healing can begin. Dems will take over and just like with Clinton and Obama we can move in a better direction for awhile.

Fast forward a decade and the current republican base will have dramatically shrunk. They will be forced to change their position on many issues like climate change, healthcare, etc... the only exception to this I see possible will be abortion. Once the GOP is no longer so radical they will be less harmful to the country. The future isn't that bad looking, but we are going to be suffering a bit in the present.

"Civil War" talk is just tremendously insecure people venting. Seen that crap before.

The certain outcome, as I wrote above, is "The Great Retcon".

Remember the Iraq War... the trillion dollar imbroglio... about 74% of Americans were in favor of it. And the day Baghdad fell, it surged into the high 80s, because everyone loves a winner.

Americans ability to Retcon their history is their superpower. Trump will be gone, and most MAGA Hat wearing goon will tell people that they were just wearing their friend's hat to humor him. This is exactly how Americans work.

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Actually, youth uprising has been tried and succeeded. Those hippies? They weren't old. And they accelerated the end of the Vietnam war and brought about quite some change in US culture and society. Occupy Wall Street was a misguided attempt at "having fun", because the youth these days doesn't actually have a goal. Look up Buddenbrocks for an interesting read on society and how our generation is basically just spoiled brats that never actually had to fight for anything. No, good grades and a good job isn't "fighting" for something, a cause.

So, while I agree with you that France is hardly comparable to the US, especially since the youth riots over there are every bit as much a tradition as our riots on May 1st in Berlin and Hamburg, I think your youth has the potential to bring about change. They're just not sure what they want, yet. Some want recognition of black lives, others want to "pull one over wall street", now you've got youths that want to either end trump or declare trump their new god and so on and so forth. Get those different groups under one banner, one cause... and you'll see how they can change stuff. Size of the country doesn't matter. 90% of social stuff happens in or around metropolitan areas, even in France people aren't rioting in some farm field 100km off the next TV camera...

The protests in Vietnam weren't nearly as big as is popularly imagined. The Women's March in 2017, for example, was vastly larger than any Vietnam protest. And it did not bring a quick end to the war. The height of the protest movement was 1967 and 1968. The peak of US involvement was 1968. But the US continued the war through 1973. In fact, in mid 1970, force levels where nearly what they were in 1966.

One of the driving factors that lead to the end of the Vietnam was was it's deprioritization to the US as the world changed in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The fear "domino theory" in South East Asia gave way to the much more real fear that Soviet-friendly Arab Nationalism in the Middle East would topple US friendly regimes in the region and directly threaten the US's acces to Middle Eastern energy supplies. For the generation of leaders who, 25 years prior, had taken that exact approach to starve the Nazis and Imperial Japan of petroleum, that was a Defcon 1 issue. Consequently US efforts in the 1970s swapped from South East Asia to the Middle East.

This in turn was brought to a rather painless conclusion on our part, thanks to the Israeli-Arab conflicts eventually "canceling" each other out, opening the way for the 1978 Camp David Accords and the 1979 Egypt-Israeli Peace Treaty. This also pulled Egypt of the USSR's sphere of influence and into the US's. The 1980s of course, was characterized by a 'return to Europe" as the focus in a way that hand't been since before Vietnam. And that was driven by political changes in Europe, and the advancement / proliferation of sub-intercontiental (short, medium and intermediate range) ballistic missiles through the 1970s and 1980s.

In short, it was geopolitical realities, not popular protests, that drive policy change in the US.

[Theodarzna]

Other politicians have tried to emulate Trump. It doesn't work.

Trump is a kind of one of a kind. And Americans have a long history of inconsistency with their political direction. Donald Trump was what... the 4th or 5th "change" President in the last 40 years? Trump, Obama, Clinton, Carter and Nixon all explicitly ran on "change" platforms. Sometimes using the word explicitly. Sometimes not.

Trump will likely be followed by another "change" President, or a George W. Bush style "return to the status que ante" President. And Americans will go for it.

Your point relies on a majority of American voters to want to sample the same thing twice. They don't do that. Not even Reagan and George H.W. Bush, being back to back Presidents, were that.

My point realies on having a complicated view on events, I.E. that things are not simply like a game of civilization where you progress up a tree of options. People wanting change is probably, and I know this is a shocker, dislike the direction the country is heading in. They will likely either adopt the belief that Trump was martyred by establishment goons, and adopt a lost cause mythos around the guy, and among the Democrats its going to be a march towards Sanders and Occasio-Cortez.

The overwhelming majority of the labor force is not this. Furthermore, the best avenue to a career, rather than "short term gigs" remains education.

Underemployment is a significant problem in the economy. Plus our elections aren't simply majoritarian contests but you know, depend on states and at times even *LE GASP* local issues unrelated to what population of Middle Easterners you might desire to glass.

Oh give me a break, Little Miss Contrarian

I suspect this is Skroespeak for "Not in my camp".

[Blur4stuff]

The direction they moved however was directly towards the election of Trump. I mean, one came after those two, so It is hard to envision why you wouldn't simply repeat the same events.

GW Bush and Trump becoming president had less to do with what Clinton and Obama did and more to do with several other factors. First of all, let's not forget that both Bush and Trump got fewer votes than their opponent the first time around. So the idea that Clinton and Obama made more people want to vote republican is something we know isn't true. After eight years of Obama nearly three million more Americans wanted to stick with dem leadership despite that leader being Hillary.

Also let's remember the enormous amount of voter suppression and gerrymandering involved over the past decade. It's given republicans far more representation than actual support.

To top things off let's consider the state of mind of Trump supporters. For example, they believe a lot of things that aren't true. They fall for every single whacko conspiracy theory that comes out. Trump himself pushes those conspiracies. There are many things you can blame for this (conservative media, cowardly republican politicians, etc...) but Clinton and Obama did nothing to warrant such craziness.

If Trump supporters were actually in touch with reality they wouldn't be supporting Trump. They may not be voting democrat, obviously, but at least they would have nominated someone more sane like Kasich. We'll get to see if they correct this mistake in 2020.

[Theodarzna]

GW Bush and Trump becoming president had less to do with what Clinton and Obama did and more to do with several other factors. First of all, let's not forget that both Bush and Trump got fewer votes than their opponent the first time around. So the idea that Clinton and Obama made more people want to vote republican is something we know isn't true. After eight years of Obama nearly three million more Americans wanted to stick with dem leadership despite that leader being Hillary.

Also let's remember the enormous amount of voter suppression and gerrymandering involved over the past decade. It's given republicans far more representation than actual support.

To top things off let's consider the state of mind of Trump supporters. For example, they believe a lot of things that aren't true. They fall for every single whacko conspiracy theory that comes out. Trump himself pushes those conspiracies. There are many things you can blame for this (conservative media, cowardly republican politicians, etc...) but Clinton and Obama did nothing to warrant such craziness.

If Trump supporters were actually in touch with reality they wouldn't be supporting Trump. They may not be voting democrat, obviously, but at least they would have nominated someone more sane like Kasich. We'll get to see if they correct this mistake in 2020.

I am curious why you seperate Bush, Clinton and Obama as seperate entities breaking one another, I argue they are all stops on the road to Trump.

[nymphetsss]

Like in the shower cause he's older? Falls are serious business for old people. Hopefully this wont happen until after hes done his inevitable second run in 2024 , im sure hes got a nice shower with rails and such though