The funny part is thinking Blizzard can actually make gear look good in this game... they are painted on to your characters skin still in 2019 basically lmao.
OP, if you took a month off of chasing the crack-carrot that Blizzard shoves up your ass 24/7 then you'd realize cosmetic rewards work in many other MMOs. But not WoW of course because all gear looks like trash in this game. I just thought it funny how you think this is simply not a viable market strategy..
Problem is not boring rewards, problem is no rewards...how about some sick Tmog armor AND weapons for mythic +15? how about a ground mount for Duelists, maybe some Mounts from Mythic raiding? BLizzard is just fuckin lazy like they cant add more stuff...ADD MORE RNG REWARDS AS WELL.
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Being a game designer does not give you instant credibility. It helps, certainly, sometimes, maybe. But it's also just an opinion. WoW is a much bigger, much more complex project than any indie group has. I've been there, and done that. I can certainly say I have some better insights on certain topics, but I won't ever claim that "I know better than the wow devs". Sometimes its just an understanding of "I get why they did this even if I dont personally like that change". It all falls under the whole "We liked this thing before but dont like it now, we should change it back" and why they cant just do that.
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Been having the same discussion about the same opinion with several people these recent days... was already wondering where this nonsensical idea stemmed from...
People seem to be under the illusion that giving more gold to mission board rewards will obviously solve the gold problem and expensive potion problems and all, that having worldquests reward ilvl 380 shit will make the community a better place and no one will ever get declined from groups again, and that increasing AP gains from islands will obviously make AP grinding obsolete because everyone will have neck lvl 60 in a week and Blizzard will just release content with lvl 45 neck lvl requirements.
I miss the times when this game was fun to play. But sadly the epidemic of facebook and mobile games has deeply plagued the gaming industry by attracting people to pc/console titles despite them not even liking them... but since their money is worth just as much as that of the people who actually care and want to play those titles... gaming companies are obviously gonna cater to them. Because there's more 40 y/o dads who play games for 2 hours a week than there are actual passionate gamers...
Bellular is wrong in that he thinks cosmetic rewards are worth anything if they're for doing nothing. Heritage armor for 30 minutes of questing is worth as much as a Paladin Tier 2 xmog is now. It looks good, but no one cares.
We need cosmetic rewards that have at least some exclusivity to them like Mage Tower appearances or MoP/WoD Challenge mode armor/weapons. Something we need to play the game for. Imagine how proud you could wear mythic raid armor, if you only could xmog it if you acquired it during the patch/addon it was current content. (I'm saying that as someone who's only 1/8.) Or if there was some armor/weapon appearances for doing every m+10, or we get to choose 1 piece of armor / 1 weapon appearance for every week we do a +10. Maybe even an upgraded version of those for doing m+15 or higher. I'm aware that some people will buy boosts or overgear some of the content, but at least they show some sort of interest in the game.
To be honest, the game is so old now that there are few things the devs can do to make it feel new. New items, new mounts even new allied races, they are just pixels arranged in a pleasant manner, baubles that can be pleasing for a few minutes but for which the interest fades away pretty quickly. World quests can get boring. They are not more boring than the dailies we had to do in TBC just to get a new mount. It was nice in the time when mounts were rare, but now... It's been a while now that rewards do not drive me. The only reason I play is for the story. And so far, I like what I see, on both sides. For the rest, I do it as I please: dungeons, world quests, island expeditions. I know it could sound strange to some, but when you treat this game as a *gasp* game, and not as a job (which it is for people like Bellular and Asmongold), it is still pretty much enjoyable.
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The guildmaster of the first guild I was harcore raiding with had the 2 Warglaives from Illidan 10y ago. He obtained the first one pre-Sunwell patch if I remember correctly, the second one we got for him when I already joined right at the Sunwell patch.
My co-tank was still using his Thunderfury in the Battle for Mount Hyjal since it was on farm. I was respectfully envious of him since I can imagine how much effort he put into getting it in Vanilla. It served him well for a couple of years - you can't just retire this motherfucking sword.
I might be playing Classic just with the sole purpose of getting Thunderfury
Rewards can only take you so far, sure. But they are what you need to bring people back that have stopped playing. Non-reward based things are generally not given nearly the amount of air time nor excitement because they aren't near as sexy to the average player. If Blizz didn't offer any sort of a mount/pet, kept the same transmog, but advertised a raid as "classes play better now", it would largely be called lazy by the community even if the better classes held true.
Imagine if the secret quests/hidden puzzles in WoW gave no reward, just an NPC saying "Well done!" No one would care aside from a rare few, even with fun gameplay...but put a mount on the end of that and people will get into it and try it out. Combine that with good gameplay, you have a solid experience.
Largely, that's what I'm trying to say here. You are correct that rewards will get people to do things they don't like and that rewards themselves doesn't make the content at all interesting. But if you do make engaging content and people have a reason to return, they will even after that reward. A good raider will return even after they've gotten the cool mount because they like the community sense with their raid team...or because they really want to get Mythic Zul down after 5887 attempts. This also applies to solo content...how many people threw themselves over and over again at the exact same Mage Tower fights on numerous alts to try and unlock the cosmetic appearances?
You need the content to be good for people to care without, but you need to give them a reason to even find out if the content is any good. Hence the emphasis on the sales pitch to bring them in...and that's largely what the rewards are in some fashion, the initial sales pitch alongside the content itself to get you in the door and make you try it out.
I agree in the sense that I couldn't care less what I look like.
I'm not playing Dolly Dress UP. I'm playing an MMO. I want to be powerful and get dope items that do powerful stuff, not to look like Rico Suave in a Lo' Real commercial.
Sure i agree rewards are needed in a game.
But when Bellular says:
"they need to start innovating in the visual and cosmetic direction if they want people to feel their characters progress"
I think he is putting too much importance in rewards.
The whole idea that "rewards" are sooo much important is a thing of "nowadays WoW" i think.
I think its one of the main core problems of the community.
Rewards take you on an adventure for a limited amount of time
I for example, dont change my title since...wrath of the lich king. (Battlemaster)
I admit i embarked on an adventure...a big one...to claim that title.
But as soon as i got it...i stopped.
Thats why i think giving to much importance to rewards is a flawed design
Wow became a reward system / loot dispenser long ago. It lost the game play elements that made the game fun, as in, actually mentally and even emotionally stimulating, and were replaced by a reward system. That's when it stopped being an MMORPG and became a task based reward carousel. Bellulargaming is clueless as usual, and completely misses the point or reason why WoW is boring. I dont know how long hes been actually playing WoW, but there was a time when WoW was not boring. There is a stark and very noticeable contrast in game play design ideology between then and now, and if he thinks that improved rewards will somehow make the game feel "fun", he might as well stop playing now.
Last edited by Demithio; 2018-12-03 at 11:04 PM.
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Yeah he does still talk about WoW, and more broadly Blizz/Activision failings, which is always good for a laugh. He's had plenty to say on the state of the game from launch to warfronts to how shit most of the systems are.
Criticism from Taliesen & Evitel about the game is hard to listen to because their criticisms just end up being 'but I understand why the devs are doing this' which comes across as too "shilly". They're creative but sound like ass kissers
but its the only design that works
you cant claim that people would do hardmodes if the carrot aka gear wasnt there
problem is different
problem is that that carrot run out - exackly because of something you said
nobody sane will chase mount number 432 or pet number 523
why people farmed legion ? because artifact skins were something completly new
we lack new shiny rewwards like this in BfA and thats why people are complaining.