Bitcoin is imploding — here’s where bitcoin bulls and bears see it headed from here

[Travis B]

Those who were there first... you mean the many who sold and bought and sold and bought many times over or got out entirely when it spiked to like 60 bucks?

That doesn't make it a pyramid scheme there was no scheme to do what you're saying, it just caught on mainstream and not because some secret bitcoin people were trying to pump and dump. The media picked it up and ran which brought in new investors, that's not a pyramid scheme that's quite literally how every stock works.

For instance I'm invested in a small biotech is it a pyramid scheme because I bought shares at one point near 32 cents that are now worth about 10x the price I bought them for? Taking profits when an asset goes up is normal not a scheme.

It's a scheme when it was being manipulated to keep the price artificially high:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/13/much...cher-says.html

[Machismo]

Those who were there first... you mean the many who sold and bought and sold and bought many times over or got out entirely when it spiked to like 60 bucks?

That doesn't make it a pyramid scheme there was no scheme to do what you're saying, it just caught on mainstream and not because some secret bitcoin people were trying to pump and dump. The media picked it up and ran which brought in new investors, that's not a pyramid scheme that's quite literally how every stock works.

For instance I'm invested in a small biotech is it a pyramid scheme because I bought shares at one point near 32 cents that are now worth about 10x the price I bought them for? Taking profits when an asset goes up is normal not a scheme.

The scheme is in the regressive curve of the supply of bitcoin within the marketplace. It's inherently a scheme by design. The issue is that those people were able to farm it when the supply was in abundance.. and now it has dwindled down to almost nothing. It's regressive supply prevents it from being properly used as a currency. The only solution would be to continuously open up a new "batch" at even intervals. Only then would the supply increase at a "steady rate," and only after a very long time.

[Thage]

Do you understand the word hedge, idiot?

- - - Updated - - -



You, slant and hubcap are revolting human beings with no lives who bore everyone constantly 24/7 with your endless, tedious, superficial dull-witted opinions. You deserve no respect and will receive none.

r/iamverysmart

Bitcoin, and related cryptocurrency, are extremely volatile markets with booms and busts that would make investing in cocaine look safe by comparison. Just because you're hedging your bets elsewhere doesn't change that fact--no stable market sees booms and busts where one 'share' can go from ten grand to under 4k in a year before bouncing back up to 18k and busting back down to sub-4k. You'd have better fortune playing roulette with the money invested in cryptocurrencies until the market finds a way to stabilize; very few people are going to be riding the 'Bitcoin Millionaire' wave regardless of what the people pushing it tell you.

[GrinningMan]

The scheme is in the regressive curve of the supply of bitcoin within the marketplace. It's inherently a scheme by design. The issue is that those people were able to farm it when the supply was in abundance.. and now it has dwindled down to almost nothing. It's regressive supply prevents it from being properly used as a currency. The only solution would be to continuously open up a new "batch" at even intervals. Only then would the supply increase at a "steady rate," and only after a very long time.

Gold is a scam. Silver is a scam, diamonds are a scam.

[Slant]

I was never really into Bitcoin and other similar currencies, but from financial specialists (the very few I do know) I heard that beyond the get-rich-quick people, the only value in such cryptocurrencies investments wasn't the currency itself but the blockchain tech behind it.

That is a valid point, probably the only one cryptocurrency has. But implementation of this in a legal way is already complicated since its design is geared toward circumventing regulation itself. And if you were to fix that, you would undoubtedly run into privacy issues. Not sure how you could exploit this in a sensible manner.

[Machismo]

Gold is a scam. Silver is a scam, diamonds are a scam.

Often times, they are scams. Of course, gold, silver, and diamonds are tangible, and have real-world applications outside of simply currency exchange.

[Slant]

Those who were there first... you mean the many who sold and bought and sold and bought many times over or got out entirely when it spiked to like 60 bucks?

That doesn't make it a pyramid scheme there was no scheme to do what you're saying, it just caught on mainstream and not because some secret bitcoin people were trying to pump and dump. The media picked it up and ran which brought in new investors, that's not a pyramid scheme that's quite literally how every stock works.

For instance I'm invested in a small biotech is it a pyramid scheme because I bought shares at one point near 32 cents that are now worth about 10x the price I bought them for? Taking profits when an asset goes up is normal not a scheme.

How does the volume of actual Bitcoins increase? Mind you, not the value. The volume.

[Themius]

It's a scheme when it was being manipulated to keep the price artificially high:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/13/much...cher-says.html

Companies get manipulated all the time just look at what happened with GS in regards to AMD and TSLA does this suddenly mean that AMD and TSLA themselves are schemes because an outside 3rd party manipulated them?

[Thage]

Gold is a scam. Silver is a scam, diamonds are a scam.

I mean, yeah, to an extent. Their value is largely artificial and driven by very subjective factors, but like Machismo said, at least in this case there is a tangible, physical object you can assign the value to, which helps keep the market relatively stable depending on how much physical supply is available at any given time and how many people are out there buying the products. Digital currencies and other non-physical goods are a lot iffier because there's no physical product to tie value to, it's all fairy dust for want of a better phrase.

[Themius]

The scheme is in the regressive curve of the supply of bitcoin within the marketplace. It's inherently a scheme by design. The issue is that those people were able to farm it when the supply was in abundance.. and now it has dwindled down to almost nothing. It's regressive supply prevents it from being properly used as a currency. The only solution would be to continuously open up a new "batch" at even intervals. Only then would the supply increase at a "steady rate," and only after a very long time.

Bitcoin was never premined. If we want to talk about schemes you have to talk about the act of creating a coin and before releasing it having it premined. Are VCs also pyramid schemes and the companies they invest in?

You can spend like .00000001 of a coin so the supply is not truly an issue you just use tiny fractions as the prices go up.

[SirKickBan]

Bitcoin and similar concepts will never take off. One simple reason: Governments have the monopoly on currency. And they won't let any currency exist that is completely unregulated. They may not be able to do something about it for now, but if they could, they would come down hard on these illegal cryptocurrencies that are basically money laundering schemes.

...What are you even talking about? -First off, you're completely wrong if you think governments have any kind of monopoly on currency. Want some proof?

You give a bank $100. The bank stores half, and loans out the other half. Oh hey, look! -Fifty dollars in completely digital currency just appeared.

Second.. There are a whole bunch of practically unregulated currencies out there. Have a look at countries with plummeting economies and rampant inflation, who just print more and more money in a desperate bid to stave off complete collapse. Those are, if anything, significantly less controlled than bitcoin is, so... -Why aren't they being stamped out, again, if your logic holds any water at all?

Honestly, your little warning just seems to scream that you have no idea how a regular currency works, let alone a cryptocurrency.

How does the volume of actual Bitcoins increase? Mind you, not the value. The volume.

And to answer this: To put it in the simplest possible terms, computers race to crack an incredibly difficult code. The first one to crack the code gets a single bitcoin, and the code gets harder and harder to crack every time someone earns a bitcoin. This ensures the supply increases at a slow and fairly predictable rate, and also places a cap on the absolute number of bitcoins in existence.

[Slant]

I mean, yeah, to an extent. Their value is largely artificial and driven by very subjective factors, but like Machismo said, at least in this case there is a tangible, physical object you can assign the value to, which helps keep the market relatively stable depending on how much physical supply is available at any given time and how many people are out there buying the products. Digital currencies and other non-physical goods are a lot iffier because there's no physical product to tie value to, it's all fairy dust for want of a better phrase.

Let's not forget that even gold is an abstracted form of the actual value underneath. The promise always boils down to "Give me a sheep and I'll give you bread for a month."

Bitcoin doesn't do that. It invents its own problem (create new Bitcoins) to then have computers slave away at the invented problem to generate "value". In other words, there is no actual countervalue behind it. If you don't give me the bread that I gave you the sheep for, I am eating that much less bread, possibly starving. That is an actual value. If you have worked a month, you have added value to the economy, thus GDP can balance currency. But for cryptocurrency... if you remove the artificially invented problem of hash codes, nothing would change in the world.

It's kinda like the Indiana Jones question... What would have happened if Indy had never set out to find the Ark in the first place? Ah.

[Deleted]

That doesn't make it a pyramid scheme there was no scheme to do what you're saying, it just caught on mainstream and not because some secret bitcoin people were trying to pump and dump. The media picked it up and ran which brought in new investors, that's not a pyramid scheme that's quite literally how every stock works.

Stocks have intrinsic value and are traded in a regulated market. The comparison with cryptocurrencies is really dumb.

[Deleted]

Was at $20,000 at one point.

Is at $4,440 right now.

TFW for once when you should've listened to /b/ you didn't. I remember the threads where people were hyping it up when it was chump change to buy dozens of bitcoin. Just a meme I said...

[Belize]

Man i looked at litecoin and etherium and theyre dead now. Kinda sad.

And I'm laughing at the people that bought dozens of GPUs to mine etherium

[Doctor Amadeus]

Bitcoin isn't imploding it was, is and always will be a scam. a Few people put money in, then they marketed the shit out of it to stupid people, and it was promoted by even more stupid and unethical, in hopes someone else's worse day would be their pay day on the excuse that " Well actual government currency isn't backed by gold" bullshit. And now you have a very bad idea likely taking its very last swan song, or maybe about to make one more run thanks to the likely fear of all the people still holding these worthless coins.

It will go beyond I told you so, because honestly this many people being ripped off no matter what anyone thinks of them truly being deserving, especially those that believed even after being told. I personally feel sad and a little annoyed people are ok doing this kind of shit to other people.

And no it's not a scam or a fail because I said so. And yes the U.S currency isn't backed by gold and there ARE parallels that can be drawn about it to Crypto currency.

THE PROBLEM though is conjecture and suggestion that two things are the same doesn't lend that they are. Like it or not in REALITY U.S currency is backed by more than gold, it is backed by actual practice, and acceptance not only on a federal but universal level as it relates to the world.

Bitcoin was NEVER going to get there, yes there is a possibility that maybe one day it could have been but possibility doesn't lend much to actuality.


The reason Bitcoin failed is because it isn't feasible, its not backed by legitimate governments concerned with it's importance as legitimate currency and outside of maybe bias some say, there isn't 1 thing Crypto Currency represents in terms of global currency that can't be equaled and better by CREDIT.

Credit = Exchange rates is much more convenient and safer and already in use. Obviously there are limits, where Cryptocurrency might not have any not being tied supposedly to any 1 government.

The problem with that is if governments can't control the currency, they can't be as accountable supporting it, being able to control banks and the flow of monies is an important tool to many countries that matter, one of the biggest examples is economic leverage, as it relates to sanctions or sometimes preventing terrorist or international criminals as well as other governments.

Call it whatever you will, my opinion or what not but Bitcoin was never, ever, ever, ever, going to work and those who KNEW like me, aren't in the minority, the Majority KNEW this, and the reason there was so much nonsense out there and very few arguing about it, is because people like my self and better KNEW. There is no debate.

Bitcoin was a fucking scam, the people that profited from it knew, because they had to know, not even they were fooled by some wide eyed ass ideas about what was realistically going to happen, which is why all of them left the bag to all those SOLD this bullshit.

[Slant]

...What are you even talking about? -First off, you're completely wrong if you think governments have any kind of monopoly on currency. Want some proof?

You give a bank $100. The bank stores half, and loans out the other half. Oh hey, look! -Fifty dollars in completely digital currency just appeared.

Second.. There are a whole bunch of practically unregulated currencies out there. Have a look at countries with plummeting economies and rampant inflation, who just print more and more money in a desperate bid to stave off complete collapse. Those are, if anything, significantly less controlled than bitcoin is, so... -Why aren't they being stamped out, again, if your logic holds any water at all?

Honestly, your little warning just seems to scream that you have no idea how a regular currency works, let alone a cryptocurrency.

And to answer this: To put it in the simplest possible terms, computers race to crack an incredibly difficult code. The first one to crack the code gets a single bitcoin, and the code gets harder and harder to crack every time someone earns a bitcoin. This ensures the supply increases at a slow and fairly predictable rate, and also places a cap on the absolute number of bitcoins in existence.

But... Governments actually do. Like, it's in their constitutions and shit. You may disagree with it, but you're really in the minority here. See, I get it, anarchists don't like it, but Governments have all kinds of authority that give them monopolies. On currency, border, the monopoly on making rules that are enforced (we call this lawmaking). Please, go ahead and tell me you'd like to live in an anarchy... let's get it over with, because that's where your line of reasoning is heading.

For reference: look up the banking charter act of 1844 for England. For the Euro, look at the EU treaties, Art. 3, Sec. 4: "4. The Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro." That bit there? It doesn't say "One of its currencies" or "a currency" or "the official currency". It says "the currency." Singular. There's no alternative currency within the Eurozone (of which you can opt out, if you like).

Wtf is your bank example about? I think you're mistaking money with currency. See, what the bank does is... handle money. What the Government does is handle the value of that money. Those are interlinked, but seriously... taking bank investments as an argument that the Government doesn't have the monopoly on printing coin (and determining the value of it and the interest rates connected) is really... please, educate me some more about this stuff with your freshman year high school knowledge.

That some countries have badly regulated currencies is hardly an argument to introduce yet more unregulated currencies. I suggest you don't try to lecture people about currency when all you can do is... invent silly bank examples and ignore how a legal transaction works.

Oh, yeah.. the reason why I asked about the volume of bitcoins: Basically, if you had been one of the first guys to start mining, you would have had an easier job at getting a bitcoin than if you're doing it now, that is verbatim what you're saying. How is this not a pyramid scheme again?

[Themius]

Stocks have intrinsic value and are traded in a regulated market. The comparison with cryptocurrencies is really dumb.

Not all stocks have intrinsic value stop that right now.

There are quite literally some biotech companies that have sold off their entire pipeline or ended production with no future plans that somehow still stay afloat with people saying to buy them because x may happen, meanwhile they have no pipeline, no product at all.

The comparison isn't dumb it truly sounds like you don't know much about stocks nor the value of some companies versus others. Everything doesn't have an intrinsic value.

[Machismo]

Bitcoin was never premined. If we want to talk about schemes you have to talk about the act of creating a coin and before releasing it having it premined. Are VCs also pyramid schemes and the companies they invest in?

You can spend like .00000001 of a coin so the supply is not truly an issue you just use tiny fractions as the prices go up.

The supply is an issue, because without an increase, then all you have is a huge flux that will inevitably lead to infinitely small amounts. Look how much it has changed in a few years...

[Slant]

I had some from mining very early on, in 2012 maybe. Mining on a AMD HD 4850 512MB was... somewhat profitable. But not enough for me to continue bothering, so I just left it alone and completely forgot about it, only to be inundated with news about BTC going 18K USD in late 2017.

Needless to say I cashed everything in December. I regretted for about 1-2 days when it grew yet another thousand $ over my price, but weeks later I knew i chose the right thing to do.

The most interesting part was recovering all the BTC I had from the ancient purse format (a file on my old HDD, lol) and from my long ignored account on some "slushpool" website that I would mine for, and being able to use it for transactions. Good adventure.

The big regret is obviously me thinking in 2012 that mining BTC was not worth it because it could have killed the already 3 yrs old videocard I had, and consumed electricity. If I knew it would reach 18K, I would have sold everything to buy GPUs and mined 24/7 lol.

Or you could just have bought the coin outright for much less effort.