Is master looter gone forever?

[kamuimac]

That didn't happen in any decent guilds what would happen is channeling gear onto dps once eh for tanks and healing reqs were met. Any guild that tried to just give loot to the gm and their buddies would get a rep from that and die.

define decent ? world 50 ? sure world 200 ? sure

but do you have any idea what a wild west there was in range of 1000-5000 ?

its the midcore not hardcore players who were alwys the most toxic part of community . thats why so many people when given choice to raid hc cross real instantly jumped ships and ignored guilds imidiately

[GringoD]

If Blizz wants to keep it PL, fine, but they need to remove all the trading restrictions so it truly is player's choice when it comes to dealing with loot they receive.

That won't happen. At that point guilds might as well Loot Council all the gear, which defeats the point and purpose of PL: Making sure that your drop belongs to you (if it's an upgrade in the vast majority of cases).

[Keashaa]

That won't happen. At that point guilds might as well Loot Council all the gear, which defeats the point and purpose of PL: Making sure that your drop belongs to you (if it's an upgrade in the vast majority of cases).

Another wrong assumption that this loot belongs to you. Foes are defeated as a group, not as an individual. If you want that loot is just for you, play solo or a single player game.

[ydraw]

The system doesn't allow me to re-distribute that item to someone else because "F*ck, 360 bro! YOU NEED THIS!!!!!!

The thing is - and this is one of the main reasons that ML was removed - the only people doing this are people doing heroic split runs. And Blizzard doesnt want you doing that anyway.

It makes no sense for the average player to trade away their highest ilvl items (even if they can't use it) because total ilvl is still really important in this game.

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Also, the downside of no master loot is that your chances of getting off-spec items or even special main spec items are potentially much lower depending upon your group comp. We're currently trying to get a BrM a 2H weapon out of Uldir, but we have so few people that can actually loot that item (even with off-spec looting) that the item never drops.

You don't have any druids or hunters in your raid? Literally the 2 most played classes in the game?

[beelgers]

That didn't happen in any decent guilds what would happen is channeling gear onto dps once eh for tanks and healing reqs were met. Any guild that tried to just give loot to the gm and their buddies would get a rep from that and die.

I think what people generally miss here is what is actually happening when they said their RL ninja'd gear for their buddies. Obviously that would never have worked long term if true. What really is happening (at least from my experience): Raider A feels entitled to a drop. Drop given to raider B because it helps the team more. Raider A cannot fathom why it would be better to give it to raider B because they are the best raider ever, so RL must be just giving loot to his buddies, right?

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It makes no sense for the average player to trade away their highest ilvl items (even if they can't use it) because total ilvl is still really important in this game.

It makes perfect sense if the player isn't selfish and is more interested in the team succeeding. You know, generally the mentality of people doing mythic and even clearing heroic quickly.

Besides, if they're in a guild group, their total ilvl is irrelevant anyway. PuGs already couldn't ML if that's why you're referring to total ilvl, so I don't really get this argument.

[Thestuff1992]

It doesn't really matter what you think about Blizzard's arguments. ML is gone at this point. Blizzard told us why and gave us justifications. Just because you disagree with their reasoning doesn't make it incorrect. You have the option to play the game with the new rules or find something else to do with your time. There's no other way to say it.

Yea I’m not arguing with that. Their justifications are an absolute stretch though. It’s like saying they’re getting rid of normal/heroic because we have mythic but only 5% of the playerbase is involved in mythic. Changing something for the small amount of people that idiotically stayed in a guild that abused the system is a bit ridiculous.

And let me be honest, I don’t really give a shit about ML. I just want to be able to trade items I don’t need. I’ve gotten 2-3 items that were slightly higher ilvl that I didn’t need but were a huge upgrade for someone else (or for their alt that they plan on maining) and I couldn’t trade it. Just last week I got a 390 ring that was a 10% upgrade for someone else but not an upgrade for me and I couldn’t trade it. I don’t care about ML but they need to fix personal loot because they didn’t just remove choice, they increased restrictions with trading loot which is not good for an MMO.

There is absolutely no reason I can’t do what I want with the gear I get. It’s -my- gear right? That’s the point of PL, so let me do what I want with it. I don’t care about PL at all, it’s actually slightly more loot I believe, it’s the restrictions that are the problem.

[Tortuga234]

Yeah ML gone is a good thing.
Way too many guild leaders preferred to gear up their underperforming girlfriends and officer buddies. At least now I know I won't be screwed over by some cuck RL who can't imagine displeasing his bitching dominatrix or a irl drinking buddy.
Happened way too many times, thank god for this change.

[Exkrementor]

Its gone forever because blizzard doesnt care about common sense. They only care about the perception of the game. And if filthy Lfr casuals, that have never seen even a heroic raid not to mention mythic, think that master looter is a toxic thing that destroys the game then blizzard will totally design the game for those people.

Only people who werent effected by this change complained about it. This is pretty much WoW in a nutshell nowadays.

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Yeah ML gone is a good thing.
Way too many guild leaders preferred to gear up their underperforming girlfriends and officer buddies. At least now I know I won't be screwed over by some cuck RL who can't imagine displeasing his bitching dominatrix or a irl drinking buddy.
Happened way too many times, thank god for this change.

1. this happened in like 1 in 1000 cases at best.

2. if you hate your guild look for a new one

3. you are probably talking about a normal or heroic guild, nobody cares about that. people in mythic guilds want ML back because its the better system.

[Tortuga234]

Its gone forever because blizzard doesnt care about common sense. They only care about the perception of the game. And if filthy Lfr casuals, that have never seen even a heroic raid not to mention mythic, think that master looter is a toxic thing that destroys the game then blizzard will totally design the game for those people.

Only people who werent effected by this change complained about it. This is pretty much WoW in a nutshell nowadays.

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1. this happened in like 1 in 1000 cases at best.

2. if you hate your guild look for a new one

3. you are probably talking about a normal or heroic guild, nobody cares about that. people in mythic guilds want ML back because its the better system.

It happened in 3 guilds i've raided with in Legion (not talking other expansions.)
Sure I've left them - but that was another stress: searching for a new guild that would want my specc in, trialing AGAIN not getting any loot, so on and so on. it's a complete waste of time and a turn off. I did eventually find a guild to get all the Legion CE, but boy that was a very long journey. Removal of ML simply removes all that hussle.

P.S. Heroic ain't raids. One of the guilds RL gave a 5th Nighthold mythic set piece to an officer friend over me and another raider ( i had only 1 piece the other guy had 3 we were parsing better than that officer still).

[Jujudrood]

I have a feeling ML will be back, but it will be restricted to guild groups.
I think the threshold is 80% of the members must be of the same guild (you know, the little icon thingie on the minimap difficulty banner), so if you meet that criteria, the RL can enable ML.
If your group falls below that threshold, then it reverts to PL automatically.

This would let the guilds who want ML to use it while the others who don't can stick with the PL ruleset.
At the same time, it would prevent pug groups from 'stealing gear' or 'playing favorites' or whatever the shit the excuses were because pug groups most likely won't have 80% guild members, and in the case you join one that is a guild run, you as the player will recognize it as such, can ask ML or PL, then you can choose to continue or not.

As far as guild groups go, if you're in one who steals loot and gives it to undeserving people or whatever the case is, that's your own fault for sticking with them.
Move on, find a new group that's not a bunch of shitheads.
If it's 'too hard' to find a new group, spread your wings, little butterfly. You would be surprised what can happen if you just initiate a bit of conversation.

[Exkrementor]

I have a feeling ML will be back, but it will be restricted to guild groups.
I think the threshold is 80% of the members must be of the same guild (you know, the little icon thingie on the minimap difficulty banner), so if you meet that criteria, the RL can enable ML.
If your group falls below that threshold, then it reverts to PL automatically.

That is exactly how it worked since WoD and people still complained bacause of whatever reasons.

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It happened in 3 guilds i've raided with in Legion (not talking other expansions.)

I mean that seems very unlikely. Or you have been in like 200 guilds in all of legion.

I play WoW since vanilla and that happened to me once and i immediately left the guild.

Also just because you didnt get an item it does not mean that other people get preferential treatment. In a good guild loot is getting distributed because of attendance, performance and upgrade value that item brings to the player. If you play shadow there is a good chance that all the mages and warlocks get geared first because they are just stronger.

[Tortuga234]

That is exactly how it worked since WoD and people still complained bacause of whatever reasons.

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I mean that seems very unlikely. Or you have been in like 200 guilds in all of legion.

I play WoW since vanilla and that happened to me once and i immediately left the guild.

Well lucky you.
I've been to 4 mythic raiding guilds overall in Legion.
The last one i've settled in and got the CEs was a lucky one for me. Stories differ, I play since TBC and boy can I tell tales of abusive cuck RLs and their inability to resist their bitching girlfriends.
PL is good. The fact that you can't trade stuff that does not fit your specc because of ilvl is bad.

[Airlick]

Yeah ML gone is a good thing.
Way too many guild leaders preferred to gear up their underperforming girlfriends and officer buddies. At least now I know I won't be screwed over by some cuck RL who can't imagine displeasing his bitching dominatrix or a irl drinking buddy.
Happened way too many times, thank god for this change.

Never encountered this, and I've gone through some 6-7 guilds in my raider's life. But then I was choosing my guilds rather carefully. The only times I've witnessed anything resembling drama was with distributing legendaries, and that was always done based on performance, time spent in the guild, and if that wasn't enough, it was based on who would benefit the most from the legendary. Some people always felt they deserved it more than others did, but then I've also had people passing up legendaries for various reasons.

Of course, there was that one time our GM of a 4 years old guild sold his account right after getting Shadowmourne and almost got our guild destroyed, but our RL stepped in and salvaged it.

[Tortuga234]

Never encountered this, and I've gone through some 6-7 guilds in my raider's life. But then I was choosing my guilds rather carefully. The only times I've witnessed anything resembling drama was with distributing legendaries, and that was always done based on performance, time spent in the guild, and if that wasn't enough, it was based on who would benefit the most from the legendary.

Of course, there was that one time our GM of a 4 years old guild sold his account right after getting Shadowmourne and almost got our guild destroyed, but our RL stepped in and salvaged it.

I uderstand. But neither your or my story is universal. There is a gazillion guilds out there not just those encountered by you or me.
It is good that you havent't been to guilds I've been to. And, sadly, you can't really tell that shit's gonna happen until it has happened in most cases. You join a guild, theyre doing mythic (hc prio to MoP) everything seems fine, youre Trialing - so you dont even expect any loot. And then month and a half later being at a "raider" or equal rank you observe how only the officers and RL are getting geared.
Then again, like I said, my story isnt universal just like yours isnt. But PL basically eliminates even the possibility of highjacking.

[Jujudrood]

That is exactly how it worked since WoD and people still complained bacause of whatever reasons.

The difference with what I'd like to see is that it auto-PL's the moment it's not a 'guild group'.
Before it was 'Set ML and it's done' regardless of who's there.
At least here, it gives guild groups the agency to choose ML while pugs are forced PL to curb the shenanigans that apparently happens in pugs.

As a RL, I love PL because I don't have to worry about dishing out loot or wasting time on the boss to check addons or anything stupid to figure out who should get it.
All ML was, to me, was a waste of time.
Why? My group is comprised of adults, most of them married and/or with kids, and all in agreement that loot is loot and no one fights over it.
Maybe I'm the oddball lucky one, I dunno.
With PL (which we used all of Antorus as well), people get stuff, and if it's an upgrade for someone else, they ask, then if trade, cool, if not, no biggie, we move on.
It gives the players the agency to choose when to trade, and that's phenomenal to me; saves me a lot of time so I can go set up for the next boss.
Hell, if anything we have a problem with too many people deferring for others... "i won the roll but it's a bigger upgrade for you...", "no, you take it", like, come on guys, quit being nice and let's go kill some shit. /endtangent

I just think it wouldn't be terrible to give those guilds who want to use it the ability to, with the caveat that it must be a 'guild run'.
That way, the people who complain about the abuse of ML can have PL and those who hate PL can find a ML group and both sides can be as happy as they are going to be because not everyone will be satisfied no matter what happens.

[Exkrementor]

As a RL, I love PL because I don't have to worry about dishing out loot or wasting time on the boss to check addons or anything stupid to figure out who should get it.
All ML was, to me, was a waste of time.

Its now even more of a waste of time. There are addons like RC lootcouncil that post every item that can be traded. Then you can distribute the items as a raidlead and a bunch of people have to trade each other instead of the ML just assigning the item.

And here is an example of how PL just feels awful:
Last week I got a 395 Belt with Bis stats on it but I already got a 395 Belt with shitty stats on it. So I could trade that item and I had to give that item to another person because he got more of an upgrade from it. I mean thats fine it was always this way. The loot goes to the people who got the most out of it. But with PL you get an item into your bag, you own that item and then it gets taken away from you because somebody else could use it more. Back with ML you just said how much of an upgrade, that item that was still lying in the boss, was and then you would maybe get it and maybe you wouldnt.

Its the same outcome. It just feels really bad. Thanks Blizzard!

[Thestuff1992]

Well lucky you.
I've been to 4 mythic raiding guilds overall in Legion.
The last one i've settled in and got the CEs was a lucky one for me. Stories differ, I play since TBC and boy can I tell tales of abusive cuck RLs and their inability to resist their bitching girlfriends.
PL is good. The fact that you can't trade stuff that does not fit your specc because of ilvl is bad.

See I can get behind this for sure. I’ve argued to bring back ML however PL can be a perfectly fine and even better system if they’d remove these insane restrictions. The only reason people hate PL is because they can no longer do what they want with gear.

As I said earlier I got a 390 ring last week (this is just 1 case) that wasn’t an upgrade for me but a ~10% upgrade for someone else and I couldn’t trade it. That’s the kind of shit that feels terrible. Raiding is about teamwork and now I can’t even decide if I want to trade my gear or not, the game decides it for me whereas previously we decided as a team (in my case, yours is different apparently). I don’t care about ML just let me do what I want with my own loot, that’s the point of personal loot to begin with.

[beelgers]

It happened in 3 guilds i've raided with in Legion (not talking other expansions.)
Sure I've left them - but that was another stress: searching for a new guild that would want my specc in, trialing AGAIN not getting any loot, so on and so on. it's a complete waste of time and a turn off. I did eventually find a guild to get all the Legion CE, but boy that was a very long journey. Removal of ML simply removes all that hussle.

P.S. Heroic ain't raids. One of the guilds RL gave a 5th Nighthold mythic set piece to an officer friend over me and another raider ( i had only 1 piece the other guy had 3 we were parsing better than that officer still).

I'll assume this is accurate, so you must be the most unlucky recruit ever. There is no way this was that prevalent. At least as long as not joining guilds that have existed for less than a month. That's about as long as I could see a mythic guild lasting when screwing people on loot.

[Deleted]

1. this happened in like 1 in 1000 cases at best.

2. if you hate your guild look for a new one

3. you are probably talking about a normal or heroic guild, nobody cares about that. people in mythic guilds want ML back because its the better system.

This happened in every guild i raided.Officer were given priority for legendaries,loot,mounts...There's always priority to throw gear at officers and their friends.Seen it way to many times.It's same like you are in a dungeon and theres a guy helping his lower geared friend.Of course he will throw gear to him over everyone else.It's pretty much same in raiding guilds.GM>officer>rest of the guild.

[Jujudrood]

Its now even more of a waste of time. There are addons like RC lootcouncil that post every item that can be traded. Then you can distribute the items as a raidlead and a bunch of people have to trade each other instead of the ML just assigning the item.

And here is an example of how PL just feels awful:
Last week I got a 395 Belt with Bis stats on it but I already got a 395 Belt with shitty stats on it. So I could trade that item and I had to give that item to another person because he got more of an upgrade from it. I mean thats fine it was always this way. The loot goes to the people who got the most out of it. But with PL you get an item into your bag, you own that item and then it gets taken away from you because somebody else could use it more. Back with ML you just said how much of an upgrade, that item that was still lying in the boss, was and then you would maybe get it and maybe you wouldnt.

Its the same outcome. It just feels really bad. Thanks Blizzard!

But that's only for those who choose to use those addons and let other politics get in the way.
If you run it simply as 'If it drops for you, grats. If you choose to trade, cool. If not, cool.' then it's more than fine.

As for your example, I mean I guess it feels bad, but really, it's the same as if it just shows up on the boss, you look at it, you bid, you state your case, the whole nine.
Just because it's in your personal bags maybe it feels a little worse to you, but a better example of PL being awful for some (and why I condone restricted ML) is this.

Take your same example, but let's say you have a 390 belt with BiS stats and your PL chance gives you a 395 belt with your bottom 2.
In that case, you can't trade because the ilvl of the drop exceeds that of what was equipped/in your bags.
That is a prime example of it feeling even worse because now not only can you not use that item, but no one else can either, so it gets sharded/vendored/whatever, unless it so happens your class has a spec that likes those 2, but best case is you got an OS item over 1 or more people who needed MS.

That right there is a prime example of the failure of PL, but Blizz sees it as "PL satisfies the majority, so stick with it" and would rather screw the hardcore-min-maxers because they represent less $$.
This is why having both, with restrictions in place, could maaaaaybe make both sides a little happier, or at least the majority stays status quo while the hardcore have an alternative.