Anti-enviromentalists are rioting in paris again (live)

[EbonBehelit-]

The tax is to help prevent the apocalypse by the way. Just throwing that out there.

The problem is this: you can't tell the working class that they need to shoulder the burden of climate change, whilst at the same time giving tax cuts to the rich and big business. The French are the most taxed people on Earth right now, and their standard of living has been pushed to the breaking point.

I honestly have no idea how people could think Macron is a leftie -- he has a history of cutting public spending and cutting taxes for the wealthy, which is textbook conservative economic policy.

I said eu. Learn to read commie.

You said "the eus", which could have gone either way, tbh. However, since the post you were responding to was comparing China to the US, it was a safe assumption that you were also comparing China to the US.

[NED funded]

You said "the eus", which could have gone either way, tbh. However, since the post you were responding to was comparing China to the US, it was a safe assumption that you were also comparing China to the US.

I was responding to a post that was complaining how low China's emission were and how we were all bad for not wanting them to grow (economically), when China:

a) Pollutes more than the EU per capita.

b) Its growth pollutes a lot more than that of other poorer countries (so you can't blame it on lack of infrastructure for efficiency or anything like that)

off topic tho.

[Logwyn]

Per capita is the only valid way to measure emission.
Anything else follows the idea that a Western person has more right to emission than an Asian or African person.
It's pure racism.

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Yes, it matters.
You cannot convince the world that they have to reduce emission while at the same time having your own citizens pollute four times as much as theirs.

Except when you boil it down to nation vs nation you are producing a counterproductive argument that spirals into my nation is doing X but that nation is doing Y.. Y is greater so until you get Y down don't mess with us....

Then we end up with this nation vs nation thing and don't get anything done. There's too much period. The finger pointing needs to stop and just figure out a solution.

[Mayia]

Because people here are almost pouring oil into the kitchensink while the average Chinese has to live on half a liter gas per month.
And all you can do is whine about how much the 1.5 billion Chinese are using in total.
Who the fuck cares about that?


So you're saying a country with 1.5 billion people emits more carbon gasses than a nation with 300 million people? NO SHIT SHERLOCK

Oh wait, you're one of those assholes who think the Chinese don't have the right to economic growth because they aren't white people.

No i'm not a dipshit who assumes people should be forced to use less CO2 when it hurts them.. Which is kind of my entire point you have missed.
Basically you are moving the problem from the POOR CHINESE to the POOR AMERICAN/WESTERN people, its just shifting the problem elsewhere.
Ideally no poor people should have to suffer it fucking sucks to live week to week on your paycheck no matter what race you are, or are you a racist who has to put everything in terms of race?

Africa is a big problem right now also, any expanding they do will require HIGH CO2 for cheap quick energy, before they can setup solar plants and other kinds of things, so unless you are going to fund them personally whining about this is pointless, and you are WRONG as well as dull.

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Apparantly reading is harder

His chart was per capita

The one you found share by country

and it is a chart that says China uses *the most* which is only going to get larger over time as population rates go up, the Co2 entering the atmosphere doesn't care if it comes PER HEAD or not it just builds in the atmosphere, right now China is creating the biggest problem and nobody gives a crap because they know they can't change it.. and just want to pressure westerners into it, "get bent" is what they are protesting to say to people like you.

[arandomuser]

Hopefully macron is smart, and dosent bow to RIGHT WING political corectness- yeah it exist, if there is russian agents infilitrating your country masked as protestors, have them arrested and hung for treason, declare martial law if they do too much damage, do any means necessary to defend the republic from the kremlin backed "protestors"

[Nihilist74]

Its clearly not the best measure they could have taken. We already are the most tax pressurized people in europe... In the meantime, our senate have a 60 million budget for vine and macron (or his wife) spended a fortune to change decoration and dishes at l'Élysée... not to mention all the advantage the politics voted for themselves to evade taxes!
Another exemple, Sarkozy wasn't rich enough when he was elected president, si he upgraded the president salary by 170%! 170%?? Yeah! You read it right! 170%! When the minimum salary in france dont even follow inflation! Everybody called him out for it, but nobody changed it when he was kicked out of office.

Like I said, this as little to do with ecology, shit is accumulating for several years now. People is sick of the whole political class, and the far right/left can try political recuperation, the people don't trust them either.

This makes me feel like the first foundation book by Issac Asimov.

[Acidbaron]

Wow the strikes paid off big time. No more taxation on overtime currently at 55 procent I think. 100 euro's extra per month for minimum wages, no gas taxes increase, reintroducing the wealthy tax and all this from January.

[Machismo]

Aren't we supposed to be calling all the rioters thugs and animals?

Yep, just checked, and remarkably, nobody called the rioters thugs. Hmmm, I wonder why it's not happening...

[Xarkan]

and it is a chart that says China uses *the most* which is only going to get larger over time as population rates go up, the Co2 entering the atmosphere doesn't care if it comes PER HEAD or not it just builds in the atmosphere, right now China is creating the biggest problem and nobody gives a crap because they know they can't change it.. and just want to pressure westerners into it, "get bent" is what they are protesting to say to people like you.

And yet he did not lie, you claim he lied and that a google proved it, the google you did brought up something else

Your position btw seems absurd to me

As a dane i should be allowed* to polute somewhere around 56 times what an american (US) can do simply because my country has smaller population?

How on earth would that even make sense?

*) allowed is not the right word obviously. Excused maybe? Allowed before an eyebrow could be raised? something

[bearlolzx]

Fuck ... we reached the point of no return in the 90s


Better to do all terrible things to the environment now (I believe climate change is man-made) and let people live fulfilling lives with more MONEY in their pocket

than force people to change to clean energy when their GDP literally depeds on it (like paris climate accord with china/india)

This is for sure liberal vs conservative view 100% but you have to truly do your own research and look at the science, even if science is mainly liberal biased.

[The Anax]

do your own research and look at the science, even if science is mainly liberal biased.

You might mean that liberal thinking tends to be closer to reality more often than not. Science is objective and everything from particles to biology does not have any type of political biases. I should add that it is irrelevant to bother arguing about what has caused the climate change. Even if you illogically and irrationally disregard all emprical data (which you might think is liberally biased), and you desire mankind to continue to exist, then humanity needs to work to change the problem, or there won't be a humanity at all. In other words, at this point, if someone wants to ensure that the world is saved, the cause no longer matters, all that does for a majority of life on Earth is that we even things out ASAP.

However, I am a misanthrope, so if humanity perishes, I am ok with it. In fact, I am rooting for people to continue business as usual.

[Deleted]

Turns out it was France.. i could have sworn it was Belgium

1) France
2) Denmark
3) Belgium
4) Sweden
5) Finland

http://www.oecd.org/newsroom/tax-rev...tion-taxes.htm
For 16 years we were number one in OECD but now France beat us

Finally, we arent the ones getting screwed the most

[Mayia]

And yet he did not lie, you claim he lied and that a google proved it, the google you did brought up something else

Your position btw seems absurd to me

As a dane i should be allowed* to polute somewhere around 56 times what an american (US) can do simply because my country has smaller population?

How on earth would that even make sense?

*) allowed is not the right word obviously. Excused maybe? Allowed before an eyebrow could be raised? something

Co2 is flooding into the atmosphere, it doesn't care if its per head, or country, per anything.
But right now China's use is the most likely to snowball out of control, because population growth is a real problem there already.

the Co2 issues in France are causing cost of life to raise too high for working class people, and because this isn't a socialist system it isn't okay if a couple of million people die "for the good of the planet" or at least that is what i thought, am i wrong?

And he used an absurd stat to prove an absurd point, which can be countered with an equally absurd one, since the point is crushing the working people will not help anyone, we need real re-designs having a bunch of idiots pressure people isn't going to achieve anything but riots, and possibly worse.

Perhaps if we'd all stop wasting all this time bouncing between "waa everyone else should give up driving because i'm middle class and comfortable" and "lets not crush the poor under ideals" and thought of ways to fix the problem without raising the price of everything that'd be good, help me think up a good solution for a stable tower to build in the south pole in order to funnel the cold of space down into the ice using conductive material, or help design a new solar system that doesn't roast birds as easily as the current ones do.

[Deleted]

Well, to go back on topic (which is clearly not ecology, proved by yesterday announcement), Macron talked to the nation yesterday. And holy shit the guy didn't get it.... taking people for fools is not going to end well for him. Devide To Reign is not going to work this time, nobody's falling for the trick. At least in France...

[Malikath]

Those are different metrics. One shows per capita, one total.

Per capita is the one that matters because more people = more pollution.

no, it doesn't.
total does, who cares if china can divide it across a few billion worker slaves.

[JohnBrown1917]

no, it doesn't.
total does, who cares if china can divide it across a few billion worker slaves.

The Chinese citizens do. Why do they have to give up more than the rest of to achieve the goal of stopping climate change?

[Malikath]

Why do they have to give up more than the rest of to achieve the goal of stopping climate change?

because they allow their government to pollute the uncontested most.
if don't like it they should get their umbrellas and AKs out and change it.

[JohnBrown1917]

because they allow their government to pollute the uncontested most.
if don't like it they should get their umbrellas and AKs out and change it.

Even with a different government, they would still pollute more because of the huge population. So again, why do they have to give up more? Why does the US deserve a higher standard of living just because they got a far lower population?

[Malikath]

Even with a different government, they would still pollute more because of the huge population.

that's an ignorant assumption, barely worth addressing but what the heck.
the fact the chinese government does nothing to the pollution from their factories is far more egregious then the billions of people who have to rent a gas mask so they can use the free bicycles.

[JohnBrown1917]

that's an ignorant assumption, barely worth addressing but what the heck.
the fact the chinese government does nothing to the pollution from their factories is far more egregious then the billions of people who have to rent a gas mask so they can use the free bicycles.

That they do nothing is a statement of ignorance, its simply not true. And the US has no right to speak of this either, Trump is only making it worse.


But you keep dodging it, why the Chinese have to live in lower standards of living than the US just because they have a higher population? Stop bringing up the government policies, those can be changed.