[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Pann]

It's a bit hard to play the game when we discount everything anyone says in favour of what we believe they believe. You and Pann are absolutely right of course but well, they bothered to make a manifesto so I'm going to indulge in the idea that these pledges actually mean something. I'm sure at the very least these ideas mean something to their voters since they gained support last GE over 2015.

You make a good point and I think that their intentions in their manifesto are good but when push comes to shove I think the old prejudices are going to hard to let go of.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I think that, for all their faults, the DUP do want peace in Ireland and as result they want to maintain as near as possible to the status quo but I think aiding Corbyn into No. 10 is a step too far for many DUP supporters.

Do they want peace? Foster’s generation?

[Kronik85]

I think you're right that they want unicorns and Labour's Brexit certainly has unicorns.

But in all seriousness the DUP are playing to what is essentially two different audiences, there are the younger more liberal (if you get them in NI) unionists who have grown up under the umbrella of the GFA and then there are those that have watched their family members dragged out of their houses by Republicans never to be seen again simply for being unionists. Or those, like Foster, that have witnessed family members or friends being shot in front of them for being unionists. Or those who have lost close ones to IRA bombs.

For them it goes much deeper than mere politics.

I feel that this is something that someone who has not lived through it can understand.

To get an insight into the DUP frame of mind have a read of this; https://capx.co/dont-bet-on-the-dup-blinking-first/

I think that, for all their faults, the DUP do want peace in Ireland and as result they want to maintain as near as possible to the status quo but I think aiding Corbyn into No. 10 is a step too far for many DUP supporters.

Not going to disagree with any of this.

The Final Countdown? That's far more European than I expected from you.

This feels only too fitting as an analogy to Brexit, this deal and the clowns in Parliament.

[dribbles]

No, we haven't. What we've heard from you is shifting positions whenever your old position was impossible to hold while everyone, from the first page up until now, has told you how these things would unfold. As they are doing now. You're not exactly a genius, let's be frank here. We've seen this coming a long, long time ago. But unlike you, we do not want the UK to crash and burn and people's lives being ruined. Because we're not anarchist assholes that hate their neighbours like some of us on this forum seem to be. Not naming any names, you know who you are.

Absoulte bollocks as usual.

My position has been the same since before the referendum matey boy. Here's one from almost 3 years ago before the vote that could just as easily be written today.

If the UK decides on Brexit trade deals will take 1 second to set up.

The WTO says hello and would be the starting default point.

I doubt you'll find a more strong and stable long lasting position than mine.

The Final Countdown? That's far more European than I expected from you.

Ha! What a terrible song that was, did it come from Europe? Only reason it was always on the radio here was because it sounded American, (so me granny says you understand, lol) Wouldn't have seen the light of day otherwise...

[Nigel Tufnel]

It's a bit hard to play the game when we discount everything anyone says in favour of what we believe they believe. You and Pann are absolutely right of course but well, they bothered to make a manifesto so I'm going to indulge in the idea that these pledges actually mean something. I'm sure at the very least these ideas mean something to their voters since they gained support last GE over 2015.

That’s well-written, dude. I hope you’re right. Sadly, my scepticism is rapidly approaching that of the Euro posters above. What an absolutely dreadful day.

Some of the shit I’ve heard. Jesus Christ.

Acidbaron, I take it all back. My apologies to you.

[Pann]

Do they want peace? Foster’s generation?

I think they do. I think it's hard for them, on both sides of the divide, but I don't think the GFA could have endured for so long if they didn't.

I think it is easy for us, as dispassionate observers with the benefit of 20 years of hindsight, to be critical but I think a lot of people in NI made sacrifices for the benefit of a peaceful Ireland that many of us would not.

[Deleted]

No, we haven't. What we've heard from you is shifting positions whenever your old position was impossible to hold while everyone, from the first page up until now, has told you how these things would unfold. As they are doing now. You're not exactly a genius, let's be frank here.

No he isn't but neither are you with your smug, fatuous superficial globalist agenda and your complete ignorance of the country and the culture where Brexit is taking place. Your entire philosophy is a poorly expressed collage of bland mainstream euro newspapers, without wit, charm or insight.

[Dizzeeyooo]

No he isn't but neither are you with your smug, fatuous superficial globalist agenda and your complete ignorance of the country and the culture where Brexit is taking place. Your entire philosophy is a poorly expressed collage of bland mainstream euro newspapers, without wit, charm or insight.

#feelsDribbles

[Kronik85]

I think they do. I think it's hard for them, on both sides of the divide, but I don't think the GFA could have endured for so long if they didn't.

I think it is easy for us, as dispassionate observers with the benefit of 20 years of hindsight, to be critical but I think a lot of people in NI made sacrifices for the benefit of a peaceful Ireland that many of us would not.

Having just finished that article you linked, this is a hell of a paragraph.

These aren’t easy people to impress or intimidate. The psychology of a border childhood where the very land your house stood on was literally contested ground made that line on the map as real as God. The IRA’s campaign on the border was, essentially, a land grab – one that involved murdering the Fosters’ neighbours to push Protestants away from the border. When your back has been against the wall for this long, the backstop looks like nothing less than capitulation of a Britishness that was paid for in blood. May’s advisors will ignore that visceral backstory at their peril.

I've always felt this was one of the saddest aspects of Brexit and the attitude of the "well they can fuck off" group of Leavers. The people of NI shed blood to be a part of this country and whatever Brexit we end up with will see their sacrifices sidelined by people who do not give a shit about them.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I think they do. I think it's hard for them, on both sides of the divide, but I don't think the GFA could have endured for so long if they didn't.

I think it is easy for us, as dispassionate observers with the benefit of 20 years of hindsight, to be critical but I think a lot of people of NI made sacrifices for the benefit of a peaceful Ireland that many of us would not.

Hmms... am I a dispassionate observer? I had to run Corporation St in 1996 along with a lot of hysterical scallies. Not much fun, that.

But, yes, you’re right... it’s not my conflict. And the GFA has endured. I don’t know...

[Deleted]

For me, I think the question is this: how have we got to this position? Where the conversation in the U.K. is being dominated by those on the fringes.

What has led us here.

Yes, I agree it’s fucking shit.

Corbyn thinking he could walk the GE is what brought us to the point where the DUP get a say in things like this.

[dribbles]

#feelsDribbles

Too well written for me.

[Kronik85]

That’s well-written, dude. I hope you’re right. Sadly, my scepticism is rapidly approaching that of the Euro posters above. What an absolutely dreadful day.

I'm in the sweet spot that great leaders such as Churchill occupied constantly on the drunk scale. Slightly less than 2 drinks, it's all down hill from here in posting quality.

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Ha! What a terrible song that was, did it come from Europe? Only reason it was always on the radio here was because it sounded American, (so me granny says you understand, lol) Wouldn't have seen the light of day otherwise...

Europe were Swedish. This is the sort of post that puts you a cut above dribbs. Truly a savant at your chosen past time.

[Deleted]

#feelsDribbles

"Any one who doesn't agree with me is a Brexiteer".

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Corbyn thinking he could walk the GE is what brought us to the point where the DUP get a say in things like this.

Yes this is all somehow Corbyn's fault. Do you work for the Mail?

[Nigel Tufnel]

I'm in the sweet spot that great leaders such as Churchill occupied constantly on the drunk scale. Slightly less than 2 drinks, it's all down hill from here in posting quality.

lol

The question really, though, is what constitutes two drinks?

Two small glasses of wine? Two large giblets of port? Two bottles of rum?

This is my problem!

....

goblets, goblets

[Slant]

For me, I think the question is this: how have we got to this position? Where the conversation in the U.K. is being dominated by those on the fringes.

What has led us here.

Yes, I agree it’s fucking shit.

I can't tell you that, because I'm trying not to comment on Britain any more than I have to. But I'd say, a close look at your politicians and the media might reveal some insight.

[Dizzeeyooo]

"Any one who doesn't agree with me is a Brexiteer".

no, anyone who talks complete shit like "complete ignorance of the country and the culture where Brexit is taking place" is a Brexiteer

[Deleted]

no, anyone who talks complete shit like "complete ignorance of the country and the culture where Brexit is taking place" is a Brexiteer

I didn't vote for Brexit.

[Slant]

No he isn't but neither are you with your smug, fatuous superficial globalist agenda and your complete ignorance of the country and the culture where Brexit is taking place. Your entire philosophy is a poorly expressed collage of bland mainstream euro newspapers, without wit, charm or insight.

Any cheap attempt to draw me back into an argument about how Britain is run is quite useless. You're on your own, silly 2 post throwaway alt.

[Deleted]

"I didn't vote for Brexit but you know they're not really that wrong....."

You aren't fooling anyone with that burner, just be honest.