Blizzard DID listen.

[tripleh]

They can say that they listen, but doesn't mean that they will do anything to fix it.

[therealbowser]

Blizzard listened.

Obviously Blizzard should just ignore the community, since that clearly works best.

Not to mention that in almost every single point mentioned, you are polluting the actual issues with your biased opinion as to why Blizzard did it; and are wrong in virtually every case.

I mean let's get down to reality here. Do you honestly thing Warforging was added specifically because "players wanted upgrades when repeating content"? Do you seriously think Mythic+ dungeons were added "as an alternative to raiding"? Do you think they added higher level PvP gear so that "PvPers would have cool gear just like the PvEers"?

No, no, and no, for these specific examples.

1. They added warforging to get players to repeat content again and again, they didn't add it to appease players who whined about having to repeat content (why would you even assume this...?).

2. They added mythic+ dungeons because they wanted to enhance the 5 man dungeon experience... to add an additional form of progression content so that people can have something to work towards beyond raiding... and frankly, this is one case where almost no one has complained about it that I have seen. Yeah, it's not for everyone, but are you forced to play it? I doubt it.

3. PvP gear being added is so that PvPers can be competitive in PvP content without being forced to have PvE gear to run battlegrounds . And as far as I can tell, PvP gear does not even remotely threaten mythic raiding gear, nor have I heard of anyone doing PvP to gear up for mythic raiding in years. If you are talking about lower level difficulties (I assumed not, since you implied that PvP gear was BiS which is, frankly, ridiculous), then what is awful about having another option to gear up? Who cares?

I could keep going and cover virtually every point like this, but why bother? It's just repeating the same thing over and over.

In general this feels like a thinly veiled "epics should be EPIC again" thread and as you haven't given any of the actual problems of the game or even what these obviously horrible problems have on the community itself. If that is indeed the case, then this thread is as bad as it appears to be; stick to classic, and you'll get to see just how fantastic the old archaic systems were.

[Soon-TM]

<snip>

I think you might be onto something. The main problem imo is that the there is too little world in the World of Warcraft, and to how stunted is overall character progression. Outdoor content is mostly irrelevant, and has been at least since WotLK. Reps are irrelevant, and just serve as an additional gating mechanic. Questing is almost always boring to tears, with very few exceptions like Spires of Arak and especially Suramar. Levelling doesn't teach you to play your class, albeit there isn't actually a lot to learn after three waves of pruning in a row. Every single form of character progression (beyond the most basic stuff) takes place in instanced content: dungeons, raids, BGs, arenas.

Now in order to run minimally interesting instanced content, you need a group of friends/acquaintances. And that's exactly what the game has been killing since at least Cata: the need to socialize. Everything from 1 to fresh 120 can be done without ever speaking to anyone, only to find that there is nothing interesting to do at max level if you don't have a group of pals. The game does not prepare new players for what they will need at max level, and it's been happening -again- since Cata.

What to do with those "unsocial" players? Blizz can't show them the door, for their subs are as good as anyone else's, right? So they create PvE content for them. The problem is, that content is so trivially easy that it's very hard to imagine someone legitimately enjoying it. So, as a casual player, what is there for you to do at max level? Right, nothing outside of random BGs (unlikely to keep you playing for a long time) or LFR (far more toxic environment). You kill the last boss of the tier on an insultingly easy raid and voilà, unsub. Content for casuals has next to zero replay value in BfA, and hasn't had at least since Cata.

In Legion, it seemed as if Blizzard had finally found the solution: artifact scenarios, profession quests (even if the mythic 0 dungeon requirements were dumb), Suramar, class hall mounts, rewarding WQs/emissaries. They've thrown it all away now: no questlines for HoA, neutered professions, war campaign is dog!@#$ compared to Suramar, WQs and emissary rewards suck ass. Is it any mystery that casual players are leaving in droves?

So, this xpac doesn't cater to casuals, certainly. It gives them nothing to work for, no sensible carrot for them to chase, no interesting content to sink their teeth on. IEs? Lul. Warfronts? Double lul. WQs? Triple lul. Leveling your HoA? Why, if you can just unsub and it will level practically on its own once you return. The 8.0 and 8.1 changes to M+ make lower keys even less attractive for casual players. And the horrible class design, wild class balance (or rather lack thereof) and stupid changes to M+ shoo the more "hardcore" crowd away. We wanted to tackle Mythic raids in my guild in BfA, but we all of a sudden realized that we just cba. Unlike in Legion, we didn't even bother. Ghunn HC went down and almost everyone unsubbed immediately thereafter. Almost no one enjoys the way their favourite classes play.

Is really that the way Ion wants us to play? Because it seemingly is.

[rowaasr13]

1.) Blizzards developers and game directors are very smart people and the best of their profession.
Anyone disagrees?

I shudder to think what are "not very smart" if those "very smart" are people who routinely ignore feedback from alpha and then come up with "hotfixes" with gentle 30-50% changes.

[Deleted]

Blizzard needs a grand vision for their games, which they increasingly lack.

[shadowmatrix]

Just because they "listened" doesn't mean they executed the ideas well... Many of these ideas are pretty good, Blizzard, however, implemented them horribly.

I'm guessing they implemented them better then any of the players could. A great idea on paper is just a great idea, it doesn't automatically work like you want it to. If it did we would be playing Titan rather then Overwatch.

[Schattenlied]

I'm guessing they implemented them better then any of the players could.

Doubt it, the players wouldn't have implemented them with the corporate gun of "squeeze money out of this" put to their heads like the devs did.

[MoanaLisa]

i would love to know your opinion in the comments down below.

I don't think this is specifically the problem with BfA but I can agree that Blizzard listens too much and often to the wrong people. I do not agree that the list in the OP is primarily what's ailing the game. That's a subject for another thread but close readers probably know my thoughts about how the game and classes have become severely over-engineered and that the fundamental driver of the design is math.

[arkanon]

Obviously Blizzard should just ignore the community, since that clearly works best.

Not to mention that in almost every single point mentioned, you are polluting the actual issues with your biased opinion as to why Blizzard did it; and are wrong in virtually every case.

I mean let's get down to reality here. Do you honestly thing Warforging was added specifically because "players wanted upgrades when repeating content"? Do you seriously think Mythic+ dungeons were added "as an alternative to raiding"? Do you think they added higher level PvP gear so that "PvPers would have cool gear just like the PvEers"?

No, no, and no, for these specific examples.

1. They added warforging to get players to repeat content again and again, they didn't add it to appease players who whined about having to repeat content (why would you even assume this...?).

2. They added mythic+ dungeons because they wanted to enhance the 5 man dungeon experience... to add an additional form of progression content so that people can have something to work towards beyond raiding... and frankly, this is one case where almost no one has complained about it that I have seen. Yeah, it's not for everyone, but are you forced to play it? I doubt it.

3. PvP gear being added is so that PvPers can be competitive in PvP content without being forced to have PvE gear to run battlegrounds . And as far as I can tell, PvP gear does not even remotely threaten mythic raiding gear, nor have I heard of anyone doing PvP to gear up for mythic raiding in years. If you are talking about lower level difficulties (I assumed not, since you implied that PvP gear was BiS which is, frankly, ridiculous), then what is awful about having another option to gear up? Who cares?

I could keep going and cover virtually every point like this, but why bother? It's just repeating the same thing over and over.

In general this feels like a thinly veiled "epics should be EPIC again" thread and as you haven't given any of the actual problems of the game or even what these obviously horrible problems have on the community itself. If that is indeed the case, then this thread is as bad as it appears to be; stick to classic, and you'll get to see just how fantastic the old archaic systems were.

Oh my goodness thats painful to read. You are so wrong it hurts. The best part about your entire post is you AGREE with me on point 1., but your agenda to disagree with me is so strong, you dont even realize you are saying EXACTLY the same thing as me. How do you not realise this? I specifically said it was introduced as an incentive to encourage people to continue playing, even when their gear was approaching their bis, be that normal, heroic, mythic, lfr, m+, heroic dungeons. For the life of me i cannot see how you confused yourself so much with this point....

I strongly suggest you put all your agendas and preconceived ideas aside, read the post again, then form a conclusion (AFTER reading it calmly) Because you missed the point entirely, and are the only person in this thread so far to do so.

[MasterOfNone]

Cats listen to you too, they just don't care.

this guy wins

[PaladinBash]

Happy people don't kick up a fuss but angry people do. That's the way it always is everywhere for everything.

People want lots of different things in the game and sometimes they want too much. The wheel fell off my bandwagon a while ago with some of their choices and decisions being too much even for me but you can't tell me people, collectively, don't want bad things for the game. You can't tell me some people don't want to screw others out of their enjoyment or pleasure or anything else just to benefit themselves or gloat or be spiteful. You see that shit all the time on here with flying vs flying, nochanges vs changes, ret vs good specs, raid vs m+, ret vs bad specs, raiderio, lfr, ret vs ret and any number of other things people get bent out of shape about. That's just in this expansion and not going into all the other shit that's come before it. There's no shortage of people whose vision for the game will absolutely piss off and cut out a lot of other people's visions for the game and that's just a small section of the community that cares enough to bitch on a forum.

I'm not saying Blizzard listens to all feedback or even good or bad feedback but what Blizzard absolutely does do is try to appease people and that would work if they didn't make halfarsed efforts with it. That, more than anything else, is the problem. If you are going to do something, stick to it and do it and balance your work around that. If you only go halfway, you don't even accomplish that, you can't accomplish that and you piss off everyone else anyway. The biggest part of that I'd say is how the faction conflict storyline plays out so far.

[arkanon]

Happy people don't kick up a fuss but angry people do. That's the way it always is everywhere for everything.

People want lots of different things in the game and sometimes they want too much. The wheel fell off my bandwagon a while ago with some of their choices and decisions being too much even for me but you can't tell me people, collectively, don't want bad things for the game. You can't tell me some people don't want to screw others out of their enjoyment or pleasure or anything else just to benefit themselves or gloat or be spiteful. You see that shit all the time on here with flying vs flying, nochanges vs changes, ret vs good specs, raid vs m+, ret vs bad specs, raiderio, lfr, ret vs ret and any number of other things people get bent out of shape about. That's just in this expansion and not going into all the other shit that's come before it. There's no shortage of people whose vision for the game will absolutely piss off and cut out a lot of other people's visions for the game and that's just a small section of the community that cares enough to bitch on a forum.

I'm not saying Blizzard listens to all feedback or even good or bad feedback but what Blizzard absolutely does do is try to appease people and that would work if they didn't make halfarsed efforts with it. That, more than anything else, is the problem. If you are going to do something, stick to it and do it and balance your work around that. If you only go halfway, you don't even accomplish that, you can't accomplish that and you piss off everyone else anyway. The biggest part of that I'd say is how the faction conflict storyline plays out so far.

So people dont turn out in their hundreds/thousands/tens of thousands for things they like? Have you heard of the beatles? m.jackson? PPl dressing up in costume for midnight prems of movies? any sport ever?

Happy people absolutely do "kick up a fuss". im really not sure where you got that idea?

[Kudos]

I don't think Blizzard listens to players. I think that this expansion is designed based on their collected metrics on player engagement. BFA isn't a terrible expansion, but it just seems to lack any passion. It's too "color by numbers". They have recycled what they think players liked from Legion. There just anything that players really connect with or are excited to engage in.

[Elestia]

No, the argument isn't whether or not there's a rationale behind any of their actions. There is always going to be. It's more about them needing to adhere to and maintain a certain standard for the game.

If serious people are irked about titanforging because it makes collecting BiS and competing for parses meaningless relatively speaking, then yea, Blizz needs to fucking listen to those players.

If they keep saying the classes are balanced and intended to deal equivalent damage, but they still fucking don't, then yea, Blizz needs to listen.

If Azerite Armor is a joke and is a shitty experience and thereby renders the players opinion of the expansion entirely defunct, then yea Blizz needed to fix it / scrap it over 3 months ago.

Etc.

This is such a stupid thread... Obviously Blizz doesn't need to be damned over anything they do. However, they DO need to be held accountable when there are serious issues that damage player experience, community experience, guilds, friendships, opportunity for streamers, or even the core of what MOST players find fun about PvP and PvE. (And with the whole PvP War narrative - fuck that. Stop telling people where their hero's morality and loyalty stands. Scripted shit is shit. Vanilla WoW was void of it, which is what made it magical. Little secret!)

[Perkunas]

Perhaps.... "You think you do but you don't" was aimed at the wrong targets?

[Elestia]

I don't think Blizzard listens to players. I think that this expansion is designed based on their collected metrics on player engagement. BFA isn't a terrible expansion, but it just seems to lack any passion. It's too "color by numbers". They have recycled what they think players liked from Legion. There just anything that players really connect with or are excited to engage in.

I would perceive the same. I feel controlled which is the last thing any MMO dev wants to have happen.

[Drusin]

Tell Blizz to listen and revert xp back to pre 7.3.5. Yeah I know 8.1 xp nerfs, still not pre 7.3.5 but I'll see tomorrow how leveling goes on a new level 1.

[Craaazyyy]

They did listen. They will continue to listen. The issue is that the community is divided. Bigger issue is that they listen to the loudest voices, which are never reflective of what the community actually wants. Those loudest voices frequently don't even sub to the game, but are hellbent on getting their voices heard. It really is all a mess.

i think at this point its better to listen to people that unsubbed..

maybe back in the days it would've been a good idea to listen to people that were playing the game, nowadays there is no reason to listen to the majority of people that are playing it still

but yeah its a fact that blizzard listen to idiots.. its evident by all the changes they've been making since WoD pretty much.. or we can even go back as far as Wrath really.. its just that until WoD it wasnt as bad as during and after WoD

the amount of problems the game has right now is truly staggering.. you cant fix most of them during expansion.. so BfA cant be fixed, only next expansion and insane amount of changes can fix it, but most likely it will never happen.. Blizzard will never accept that they've made so many fucking mistakes

so Classic it is(hopefully it will bring TBC etc. after Vanilla).. unless they will find a way to fuck it up as well

[arkanon]

Perhaps.... "You think you do but you don't" was aimed at the wrong targets?

Funny, i mentioned that exact quote in this thread already. I will try and find the one that i was actually referencing though, however i do find it funny how on point that quote is here too.

[Anoikis]

Lol, that's like players wanted housing.
Blizzard listend.... and gave us garrisons.
But only morons would call garrisons housing.