View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #10001
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    As far as i'm aware, Parliament can just straight up block Brexit if they want to, what they can't do is stop Article 50. They can draft a Bill that will force the Government to revoke Article 50, but they obviously have no power to actually stop Article 50 firing. And yeah, it is concerning that she's just decided that she's not going to have this vote, because it means, yet again, nothing can move forward.

    The cards are already on the table, what May did yesterday was take her deal, and any chance of getting any sort of meaningful vote that could affect the future of the UK, and just run away.

    Pure cowardice.
    Well, yes. As far as I'm aware, the EU has to receive the revocation of Art. 50 from the Government. They would be forced to ignore anything Parliament sends them. I don't want to disagree with you, but the few interviews that I can manage to watch every day all display politicians not getting the EU. They still kept talking about renegotiations yesterday. Not May and her cronies, but MPs from both sides of the aisle. I'm not convinced that they actually understand the automatism that is in place and that the EU is actually, literally done with this. Did you see that interview I refered to, where they interviewed two MEPs? Consternation was on their faces, they couldn't quite understand why British MPs are still talking about negotiations... the debate should be rather simple, really: 1. No deal, 2. This (bad) deal or 3. No Brexit. That's it. May steering the debate away from the issue at hand and making it about how she behaves is damaging the little influence Parliament still has... at least from an EU perspective.

    Edit: Also, indecisiveness is the worst quality in leaders. This is why. First she picks the wrong direction and doubles down on it, then she's uncertain about what to do with it once she gets to the point where it begins to hurt. Instead of ripping the bandaid off like a big girl, she drags it out... what a torture.
    Last edited by Slant; 2018-12-11 at 12:44 PM.
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  2. #10002
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Cowardice on all sides. She probably sees it as her duty to get that deal through because no deal will be a nightmare.
    The EU said they are no renegotiating, which she probably already knew, so I can of understand her move, even if it is questionable. Just trying to get what she thinks is best under the circumstances.
    They can always go for the no confidence motion but nobody seems to be willing to take over.
    But it isn't just that deal or no deal, there's the option to end Brexit entirely now the ECJ's ruling that Article 50 can be revoked. MPs have already said if it comes down to No Deal, they'll just block Brexit entirely, which they can do now, thanks once again to the ECJ's ruling.

    Mays run off because she knows that she's largely irrelevant to the process now, the entire thing is out of her hands, and for some reason she's lost her bottle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Well, yes. As far as I'm aware, the EU has to receive the revocation of Art. 50 from the Government. They would be forced to ignore anything Parliament sends them. I don't want to disagree with you, but the few interviews that I can manage to watch every day all display politicians not getting the EU. They still kept talking about renegotiations yesterday. Not May and her cronies, but MPs from both sides of the aisle. I'm not convinced that they actually understand the automatism that is in place and that the EU is actually, literally done with this. Did you see that interview I refered to, where they interviewed two MEPs? Consternation was on their faces, they couldn't quite understand why British MPs are still talking about negotiations... the debate should be rather simple, really: 1. No deal, 2. This (bad) deal or 3. No Brexit. That's it. May steering the debate away from the issue at hand and making it about how she behaves is damaging the little influence Parliament still has... at least from an EU perspective.
    Parliament can draft a Bill that would force the Government to revoke Art 50, they won't try to revoke it themselves, because they can't. And yeah, ofcourse there's going to be morons on either side of the aisle still thinking we can somehow get a better deal, there's plenty of Brexiteers on both sides. I haven't seen that interview with the MEPs, care to link it? I usually ignore everything about the MEPs ever since it became obvious that the British public were just voting for UKIP as a joke, atleast as far as I could tell, but that's not really here or there at this point.

  3. #10003
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Cowardice on all sides. She probably sees it as her duty to get that deal through because no deal will be a nightmare.
    The EU said they are no renegotiating, which she probably already knew, so I can of understand her move, even if it is questionable. Just trying to get what she thinks is best under the circumstances.
    They can always go for the no confidence motion but nobody seems to be willing to take over.
    SNP going balls deep today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Campbell BBC
    SNP’s @IanBlackfordMP says @jeremycorbyn has until end of today to table no confidence motion or other parties will do
    No one wants the job but they might not be getting a choice in the matter lol.

  4. #10004
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Well, yes. As far as I'm aware, the EU has to receive the revocation of Art. 50 from the Government. They would be forced to ignore anything Parliament sends them. I don't want to disagree with you, but the few interviews that I can manage to watch every day all display politicians not getting the EU. They still kept talking about renegotiations yesterday. Not May and her cronies, but MPs from both sides of the aisle. I'm not convinced that they actually understand the automatism that is in place and that the EU is actually, literally done with this. Did you see that interview I refered to, where they interviewed two MEPs? Consternation was on their faces, they couldn't quite understand why British MPs are still talking about negotiations... the debate should be rather simple, really: 1. No deal, 2. This (bad) deal or 3. No Brexit. That's it. May steering the debate away from the issue at hand and making it about how she behaves is damaging the little influence Parliament still has... at least from an EU perspective.

    Edit: Also, indecisiveness is the worst quality in leaders. This is why. First she picks the wrong direction and doubles down on it, then she's uncertain about what to do with it once she gets to the point where it begins to hurt. Instead of ripping the bandaid off like a big girl, she drags it out... what a torture.
    Juncker's spokeswoman said yesterday "we will not renegotiate", Tusk tweeted "we will not renegotiate the deal, or the backstop"
    I don't know who has to say it, and how many times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    But it isn't just that deal or no deal, there's the option to end Brexit entirely now the ECJ's ruling that Article 50 can be revoked. MPs have already said if it comes down to No Deal, they'll just block Brexit entirely, which they can do now, thanks once again to the ECJ's ruling.

    Mays run off because she knows that she's largely irrelevant to the process now, the entire thing is out of her hands, and for some reason she's lost her bottle.
    All the EU leaders always made it clear you could stop this any time. It's not new on the table and you didn't need to wait for the ECJ ruling for this.
    The problem is your parliament doesn't seem to be willing to stop Brexit either.

  5. #10005
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Parliament can draft a Bill that would force the Government to revoke Art 50, they won't try to revoke it themselves, because they can't. And yeah, ofcourse there's going to be morons on either side of the aisle still thinking we can somehow get a better deal, there's plenty of Brexiteers on both sides. I haven't seen that interview with the MEPs, care to link it? I usually ignore everything about the MEPs ever since it became obvious that the British public were just voting for UKIP as a joke, atleast as far as I could tell, but that's not really here or there at this point.


    Should start around 18:30, I tried to have the timestamp correct.
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  6. #10006
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    SNP going balls deep today.



    No one wants the job but they might not be getting a choice in the matter lol.
    You'll end up with Arlene Foster Enjoy!

  7. #10007
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    All the EU leaders always made it clear you could stop this any time. It's not new on the table and you didn't need to wait for the ECJ ruling for this.
    The problem is your parliament doesn't seem to be willing to stop Brexit either.
    They weren't willing because negotiations hadn't finished, now as far as everyone but May and the Brexiteers in the Commons is concerned, they are concluded, we need to get this vote out of the way and then assess our options from there. I can guarantee you if the only choice is No Deal or No Brexit, No Brexit will be chosen.

  8. #10008
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    They weren't willing because negotiations hadn't finished, now as far as everyone but May and the Brexiteers in the Commons is concerned, they are concluded, we need to get this vote out of the way and then assess our options from there. I can guarantee you if the only choice is No Deal or No Brexit, No Brexit will be chosen.
    And here I was, looking forward to not having to listen to Farrage during plenaries ...

  9. #10009
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    They weren't willing because negotiations hadn't finished, now as far as everyone but May and the Brexiteers in the Commons is concerned, they are concluded, we need to get this vote out of the way and then assess our options from there. I can guarantee you if the only choice is No Deal or No Brexit, No Brexit will be chosen.
    I'm hoping for that, actually. It would be best for the UK, the EU and by god, just watching that victory snatched away from under Dribs' nose is worth it alone... :P
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  10. #10010
    Deleted
    MPs have just started an emergency debate on the meaningful vote, without May even being there.


  11. #10011
    Holy shit May could delay this vote until January 21st! I think it's time to move my money into Digestives and Hobnobs (gotta keep a diverse biscuit portfolio after all).

  12. #10012
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Holy shit May could delay this vote until January 21st! I think it's time to move my money into Digestives and Hobnobs (gotta keep a diverse biscuit portfolio after all).
    I think January 21st is when the deal gets ratified by the European Parliament, so like they're saying, they're worried that May is just going to run down the clock until then, so the only choices will be Mays Deal or No Deal.

  13. #10013
    Theresa May being accidentally locked inside her car sums up where we are pretty well, i think
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2018-12-11 at 01:21 PM.

  14. #10014
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    I think January 21st is when the deal gets ratified by the European Parliament, so like they're saying, they're worried that May is just going to run down the clock until then, so the only choices will be Mays Deal or No Deal.
    I'm not entirely confident The Commons could survive weeks of this, as was once said by a man high on cocaine whilst watching people dodge balls; it's a bold strategy Cotton, lets see if it pays for 'em.
    Last edited by Kronik85; 2018-12-11 at 01:39 PM.

  15. #10015
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    I'm not entirely confident The Commons could survive weeks of this, as was once said by a man high on cocaine whilst watching people dodge balls; it's a bold strategy Cotton, lets see if it pays of 'em.
    I think it's pretty clear now that May is done, there's no way she can survive this, completely lost the Commons and the Government in general seems to be viewed with utter contempt by even people on there own side of the aisle.

    Utter shambles.

  16. #10016
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    You're right. Plus attempting to ninja loot the royal Doomhammer is a much more British way to go about it:
    https://twitter.com/BBCSussex/status...43438593196034
    For anyone interested the royal scepter symoblises the sovereignty of Parliament, by removing it the MP was showing how the Government (the executive branch, i.e. May and her Cabinet) are undermining Parliamentary sovereignty. Also Parliament can not legally function when the mace is not in place.

  17. #10017
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    I think it's pretty clear now that May is done, there's no way she can survive this, completely lost the Commons and the Government in general seems to be viewed with utter contempt by even people on there own side of the aisle.

    Utter shambles.
    This is a commonly held and probably accurate point of view. But the question that bothers me most is what happens next? Ousting May will not change the material facts, hers will still be the only deal put forward (unsurprisingly her critics don't seem to have one of their own) and the EU are adamant that they will not re-enter negotiations. I appreciate that there are some who believe that this is an act of brinkmanship on the part of the EU, and they might be right - I don't know, but even if this is the case and the EU will come back to the table we will have just two, two and half months to come up with a new and improved deal, it just doesn't seem possible to me that a better deal can be negotiated in this short period of time.

    So we're back to square one but with a different face at the helm.

    It seems to me that this is more about MPs getting their pound of flesh from May than improving the outcome for the country.
    Last edited by Pann; 2018-12-11 at 02:27 PM.

  18. #10018
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    What? Rich British pensioners who move to Spain remove from the UK economy £100,000's in capital built up over decades and £1000's in monthly pension income provided by the UK government which they then proceed to spend in the EU economy. This again is a win for the EU to the detriment of the UK.

    If Corbyn gets in no doubt capital controls will be re-introduced that makes such a flight of outward wealth from the UK to the EU impossible.

    EU refugees going the other way, in the millions, arrive on our shores with nothing, starving and homeless, and yet we take them in feed, cloth and house them again subsidising the irresponsible EU who have failed to provide any future for their poor souls.

    The two groups are not financially the same.
    And all we ask in return is they supply the essential services that keep little things like the NHS running...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Probably. It's a good thing that the commons are a place were people can speak freely. There are not many places on earth where it would be considered remotely acceptable for members of parliament to speak like that to the head of state I think.
    The head of state is the Queen, the Prime Minister is just the head of the government.

  19. #10019
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    I think it's pretty clear now that May is done, there's no way she can survive this, completely lost the Commons and the Government in general seems to be viewed with utter contempt by even people on there own side of the aisle.

    Utter shambles.
    May is the cockroache of the political jungle, I honestly would not be surprised to see her survive this because how often before has it been said that "she's done".

  20. #10020
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    And all we ask in return is they supply the essential services that keep little things like the NHS running...
    For which they are handsomely paid...
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

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