[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Deleted]

This is a commonly held and probably accurate point of view. But the question that bothers me most is what happens next? Ousting May will not change the material facts, hers will still be the only deal put forward (unsurprisingly her critics don't seem to have one of their own) and the EU are adamant that they will not re-enter negotiations. I appreciate that there are some who believe that this is an act of brinkmanship on the part of the EU, and they might be right - I don't know, but even if this is the case and the EU will come back to the table we will have just two, two and half months to come up with a new and improved deal, it just doesn't seem possible to me that a better deal can be negotiated in this short period of time.

So we're back to square one but with a different face at the helm.

It seems to me that this is more about MPs getting their pound of flesh from May than improving the outcome for the country.

No we aren't, as soon as this vote takes place, which it must, Parliament is back in control, regardless of whoever takes control of the Government.

Let BoJo or JRM have it, it doesn't matter, the Tories are done and Brexit is done.

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May is the cockroache of the political jungle, I honestly would not be surprised to see her survive this because how often before has it been said that "she's done".

I've never thought she was done before, but this is beyond the pale now, nearly the entire opposition is in session just savaging the Government and she's off trying to negotiate with people who've already said that they won't.

[Kronik85]

This is a commonly held and probably accurate point of view. But the question that bothers me most is what happens next? Ousting May will not change the material facts, hers will still be the only deal put forward (unsurprisingly her critics don't seem to have one of their own) and the EU are adamant that they will not re-enter negotiations. I appreciate that there are some who believe that this is an act of brinkmanship on the part of the EU, and they might be right - I don't know, but even if this is the case and the EU will come back to the table we will have just two, two and half months to come up with a new and improved deal, it just doesn't seem possible to me that a better deal can be negotiated in this short period of time.

So we're back to square one but with a different face at the helm.

It seems to me that this is more about MPs getting their pound of flesh from May than improving the outcome for the country.

Since today's word is "cowardice" I'll keep rolling with it. What MPs are hoping for is that the deal will be voted down, a People's Vote will go forth and they will be absolved of any responsibility in this debacle because they are cowards utterly incapable of ruling.

Why anyone wants to see these guys "take back control" is a fucking mystery to me. The whole lot of 'em need to be purged, they are unfit to govern.

[Mayhem]

I'm hoping for that, actually. It would be best for the UK, the EU and by god, just watching that victory snatched away from under Dribs' nose is worth it alone... :P

To be fair, either No Deal or No Brexit, dribbs will be losing.

[Dhrizzle]

For which they are handsomely paid...

So it's agreed that EU immigration is a fair exchange that benefits the UK and the migrant workers?

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Since today's word is "cowardice" I'll keep rolling with it. What MPs are hoping for is that the deal will be voted down, a People's Vote will go forth and they will be absolved of any responsibility in this debacle because they are cowards utterly incapable of ruling.

Why anyone wants to see these guys "take back control" is a fucking mystery to me. The whole lot of 'em need to be purged, they are unfit to govern.

For a long time I've been asking why I should care if rulings come from a bunch of wankers in Brussels or a bunch of wankers in London.

[Demolitia]

So it's agreed that EU immigration is a fair exchange that benefits the UK and the migrant workers?

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For a long time I've been asking why I should care if rulings come from a bunch of wankers in Brussels or a bunch of wankers in London.

The wankers in Brussels are at least consistent and predictable

[Kronik85]

For a long time I've been asking why I should care if rulings come from a bunch of wankers in Brussels or a bunch of wankers in London.

I'm on the same page. I'm pretty confident that the main reason most MPs are Remainers is because they are terrified about the prospect of governing with culpability rather than having the EU to blame when they fuck up.

[Demolitia]

This is a commonly held and probably accurate point of view. But the question that bothers me most is what happens next? Ousting May will not change the material facts, hers will still be the only deal put forward (unsurprisingly her critics don't seem to have one of their own) and the EU are adamant that they will not re-enter negotiations. I appreciate that there are some who believe that this is an act of brinkmanship on the part of the EU, and they might be right - I don't know, but even if this is the case and the EU will come back to the table we will have just two, two and half months to come up with a new and improved deal, it just doesn't seem possible to me that a better deal can be negotiated in this short period of time.

So we're back to square one but with a different face at the helm.

It seems to me that this is more about MPs getting their pound of flesh from May than improving the outcome for the country.

I think the EU might be a bit tired of this. If it takes 2 years to hammer a deal just for the transition period, and even this turns out to be extremely divisive, negotiation for the actual trade deal and future relationship is going to be quite ride. I hope they didn't promise Barnier early retirement if he took the job because this might take another 20 years .

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I'm on the same page. I'm pretty confident that the main reason most MPs are Remainers is because they are terrified about the prospect of governing with culpability rather than having the EU to blame when they fuck up.

So it's take back accountability now? We are finally over take back control? You didn't need Brexit for that but hey, whatever works for the UK.

[Deleted]

So it's take back accountability now? We are finally over take back control? You didn't need Brexit for that but hey, whatever works for the UK.

muh sovereignty

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Ah Corbyn, never change.

[Kronik85]

So it's take back accountability now? We are finally over take back control? You didn't need Brexit for that but hey, whatever works for the UK.

On paper the Withdrawal Agreement is perfect for our Parliament, they can collect a pay check whilst hanging out in Westminster's many bars because they have signed away all their power a d responsibility. It's amazing that they are actually against it.

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Ah Corbyn, never change.

We are going to need are going to need a new saying in line with "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" or "couldn't pull in a brothel in a suit made of 5ers" but specifically mentioning Corbyn.

[Deleted]

Cunt wrote:

"We are going to need are going to need a new saying in line with "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" or "couldn't pull in a brothel in a suit made of 5ers" but specifically mentioning Corbyn."

Yeah this is all somehow Corbyn's fault despite opposing Brexit, not being in government or in any way being responsible for this mess.

Oh, the plaintive cry of the simpering impotent middle-class moderate.

[Deleted]

Cunt wrote:

"We are going to need are going to need a new saying in line with "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" or "couldn't pull in a brothel in a suit made of 5ers" but specifically mentioning Corbyn."

Yeah this is all somehow Corbyn's fault despite opposing Brexit, not being in government or in any way being responsible for this mess.

Oh, the plaintive cry of the simpering impotent middle-class moderate.

Welcome back Burner! I saw your other account got banned, wondered when you'd pop back up.

Corbyn is as responsible for the situation we find ourselves in as May, for refusing to campaign against Brexit during the Referendum, despite knowing how damaging it would be the working class, for failing to lead the Labour party to a victory against the worst Tory government in living memory, and today for failing to call a Vote of No Confidence in Theresa May for her complete disregard of our Parliament.

He's as cowardly as May.

[Kronik85]

Cunt wrote:

"We are going to need are going to need a new saying in line with "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" or "couldn't pull in a brothel in a suit made of 5ers" but specifically mentioning Corbyn."

Yeah this is all somehow Corbyn's fault despite opposing Brexit, not being in government or in any way being responsible for this mess.

Oh, the plaintive cry of the simpering impotent middle-class moderate.

Wonder how many hours you will get to enjoy this burner for. Have fun with it.

[Pann]

No we aren't, as soon as this vote takes place, which it must, Parliament is back in control, regardless of whoever takes control of the Government.

Let BoJo or JRM have it, it doesn't matter, the Tories are done and Brexit is done.

Maybe, I'm being stupid and missing the point, people keep banging on about taking back control but what does this actually mean?

As I said if we get rid of May whoever takes over from her will still be facing exactly the same underlying issues only with less time to deal with them.

It seems to me this whole being in control is a bit like driving a car off of a cliff and being happy about sitting at the wheel.

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Since today's word is "cowardice" I'll keep rolling with it. What MPs are hoping for is that the deal will be voted down, a People's Vote will go forth and they will be absolved of any responsibility in this debacle because they are cowards utterly incapable of ruling.

Why anyone wants to see these guys "take back control" is a fucking mystery to me. The whole lot of 'em need to be purged, they are unfit to govern.

I think there is definitely something to this. MPs are, without doubt, hoping that the deal will be voted down and as a result we will somehow arrive at their desired outcome, the problem is that there are many desired outcomes and no-one actually has enough backbone to put their weight behind what they want to happen.

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I think the EU might be a bit tired of this. If it takes 2 years to hammer a deal just for the transition period, and even this turns out to be extremely divisive, negotiation for the actual trade deal and future relationship is going to be quite ride. I hope they didn't promise Barnier early retirement if he took the job because this might take another 20 years .

Trust me it is not just the EU that tired of all this.

[Deleted]

Maybe, I'm being stupid and missing the point, people keep banging on about taking back control but what does this actually mean?

As I said if we get rid of May whoever takes over from her will still be facing exactly the same underlying issues only with less time to deal with them.

It seems to me this whole being in control is a bit like driving a car off of a cliff and being happy about sitting at the wheel.

The Withdrawal agreement put forward must be ratified by Parliament before it can be put into effect, Parliament has flatly rejected a No Deal, so as soon as May pulls the trigger and does the Meaningful Vote and her deal gets promptly blown apart, her Government can't go forward until Parliament has its say, which is why she's attempting to push that Vote back to the January 21st deadline, because then it really will be "Vote for Mays Deal or No Deal", in which case Parliament has no choice but to vote for Mays Deal.

So get rid of May, bring in whoever the Tories want, it doesn't matter, because Parliament will not allow the vote to be postponed that long, and as soon as Mays deal is off the table, the only other choice is to reject Brexit entirely.

It's over and done with, this is just the last grasp of May trying to hold onto power.

[Pann]

Cunt wrote:

"We are going to need are going to need a new saying in line with "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" or "couldn't pull in a brothel in a suit made of 5ers" but specifically mentioning Corbyn."

Yeah this is all somehow Corbyn's fault despite opposing Brexit, not being in government or in any way being responsible for this mess.

Oh, the plaintive cry of the simpering impotent middle-class moderate.

Don't you ever get frustrated that Labour under Corbyn are so dire that they cannot consistency poll ahead of a divided and useless government? Or that when someone says something critical against him or the Labour party you have nothing positive to counter they their point with and instead need to resort to whataboutism and insults?

Oh, welcome back. Enjoy your, short, stay.

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The Withdrawal agreement put forward must be ratified by Parliament before it can be put into effect, Parliament has flatly rejected a No Deal, so as soon as May pulls the trigger and does the Meaningful Vote and her deal gets promptly blown apart, her Government can't go forward until Parliament has its say, which is why she's attempting to push that Vote back to the January 21st deadline, because then it really will be "Vote for Mays Deal or No Deal", in which case Parliament has no choice but to vote for Mays Deal.

So get rid of May, bring in whoever the Tories want, it doesn't matter, because Parliament will not allow the vote to be postponed that long, and as soon as Mays deal is off the table, the only other choice is to reject Brexit entirely.

It's over and done with, this is just the last grasp of May trying to hold onto power.

I don't think they will let it happen but Parliament cannot flatly reject no deal, in result of no deal they have no formal power to direct the government.

She's attempting to push the vote back because there is no viable alternative to her plan at the moment. Maybe in between now and whenever the vote takes place those who wish to stop Brexit will get their acts together and there will be an alternative but in the scenario you describe, imo, leaving without a deal is more likely outcome than Brexit being called off.

[Deleted]

Christ, if anyone wants to see what a completely out of touch Brexiteer looks like, look up Kate Hoeys comments from todays debate.

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I don't think they will let it happen but Parliament cannot flatly reject no deal, in result of no deal they have no formal power to direct the government.

She's attempting to push the vote back because there is no viable alternative to her plan at the moment. Maybe in between now and whenever the vote takes place those who wish to stop Brexit will get their acts together and there will be an alternative but in the scenario you describe, imo, leaving without a deal is more likely outcome than Brexit being called off.

Parliament can't flatly reject a no deal, but they can draft a Bill to force the Government to revoke Article 50, that is well within there power.

[Kallisto]

Don't you ever get frustrated that Labour under Corbyn are so dire that they cannot consistency poll ahead of a divided and useless government? Or that when someone says something critical against him or the Labour party you have nothing positive to counter they their point with and instead need to resort to whataboutism and insults?

Oh, welcome back. Enjoy your, short, stay.

People like him look at the 2017 vote and think it was because of him that Labour got so close to the Tories (2% less) with one of the biggest voting number of second place party. It doesn't come to their minds that maybe with another leader it could have been Labour winning outright because how unpopular May has been. Instead it's the media's fault. Some grand conspiracy. Not actions by him like pretending there were no spare seating on trains (When he walked through an empty carriage, claimed chairs were reserved but people were able to point out chairs are only reserved between stations shown on the ticket. If not being used they are free to sit on.), being a back bencher that went to Sinn Fein/IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah. Something completely different to a front bencher of Government, hell even opposition leadership for potential peace push. Or his open Marxis/Leninist chancellor with Mao's red book stupidity. That put people who are undecided between the two going "Well May might be bad, but those guys are insane." .

[Nigel Tufnel]

Some media reporting that the ERG is saying 48 signatures have now been found.

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status...0%2Fframe.html

That said, we've been here before haven't we. I'll believe it when it happens.

Not that I think any good will come of a Tory leadership election now... what I want is for Labour to finally get off the fucking fence. But no.

Awaits incoming Advanta or Advanta-wannabe burner account rage.

[Kallisto]

Some media reporting that the ERG is saying 48 signatures have now been found.

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status...0%2Fframe.html

That said, we've been here before haven't we. I'll believe it when it happens.

Not that I think any good will come of a Tory leadership election now... what I want is for Labour to finally get off the fucking fence. But no.

Awaits incoming Advanta or Advanta-wannabe burner account rage.

Supposedly they have a few remainers who have joined them getting the 48.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status...23518829576193

[dribbles]

Christ, if anyone wants to see what a completely out of touch Brexiteer looks like, look up Kate Hoeys comments from todays debate.

This one?

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/...23618842828801

As a brexiteer it brings tears to your eyes.