A rebuttal to the idea that houses are too expensive by example in Ohio

[ptwonline]

I live in Toronto in a fully-detached home. Prices here are getting crazy and will continue to get more crazy as everyone wants to live here for jobs and new immigrants (of which there are many) want to be part of cultural communities.

When I retire I'll sell my home (currently in the $800K range but I'm guessing it will be double that or more when I retire in 20 years) and move out to a small community somewhere and bank a lot of extra money for my retirement. I enjoyed big city life in my 20's, but as I get older I just stay home more and more. I'd move out now but the city is where all the jobs are, and commuting is a nightmare.

[scart35]

The problem is that wages are not as rising as it is cost of housing.

Here in Prague, capital city of CZE price of housing has risen 60%+ YTD(price for one square meter of flat/house space). Wages? less than 20%.
And that is avarage so less than that for common people.

[lokithor]

Ballwin is a nice area and so is Manchester. Grew up there, actually.

But, you are missing the point almost entirely. People have to live where the jobs are. Not many can just pack up and go when they see a cheap house in the midwest.

Oh shit I did too lol. Went to Westridge, Selvidge, and Marquette

[ghotihook]

What can you buy for 170K within 45 minutes from NYC?

Location is everything. No one cares if you can buy a home 45 minutes away from a city with low / bad employment opportunities.

I bought my place in 2010, so they are around 200k now.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/New-York-city-NY_rb/

[Faenskap]

There won't be a Nobel Prize in economics heading your way when you post links to cheaper houses in less populated areas.

Less populated = cheaper, yes, that holds true in other countries as well. Like Norway. But here you won't get nice homes. And you need to have at least 15 % of the property's price saved up to get a mortgage. So when you have my salary, buying an apartment/house just doesn't happen. I'm forced to rent.

If I made like 1k NOK/month more I could be able to buy something like a 35 m2/376 square feet apartment that needs fixing, escpecially the bathroom. But the average price for doing a bathroom here is 200k NOK (20k €/23k USD).

If I don't mind some travelling distance, sure. But you're forgetting the price of fuel. Let's say I end up having to drive an hour to get to work. That will add up too. I'm too tired for a maths game

[Draeth]

Have you ever actually stepped foot in Ohio? In the last 30 years?

The slow death of American industry over the latter half of the 20th century killed our economy. The only large city without significant urban decay is Columbus. Housing is cheap here because people, especially young people, have been fleeing the state in droves for decades to find work. Rural Ohio is a literal goddamn wasteland. We have a massive incidence of cancer due to all the coal burning power plants, we're the epicenter of the opiod epidemic, and again, every major city except Columbus has an enormous problem with crime, poverty, homelessness, and bedbugs.

In short, it is a terrible place to live. I only live here because I'm stuck under a mortgage I can't escape because no one wants to buy houses in Ohio.

We're not immune to the housing crisis, either. Rent and property values in areas where you can actually get a job that pays enough to live off are - while still far lower than the coasts - quite a bit higher. Tiny apartments in downtown Cincinnati are on the range of 800-2000 and half the damn buildings in Cincinnati are condemned. It's much higher in Columbus where there is actually an almost decent job market.

Finally, you understand that the housing crisis is primarily a crisis because it's destroying the ability for people to get off the ground as they come into adulthood, right? You can't save 10-20% of a 100-300 thousand dollar down payment when you work for $12 an hour with a Bachelor's degree and have $50,000 in student loan debt.

[Deleted]

Did a quick look to see what you could get around London for about £50k.

Most luxurious place was a static caravan.
Rest was entirely undeveloped or waste land, or if you want to be in London... a parking space.

Apart from a 4 bed flat, in central London, but that was £50k so you could START to rent it for the low, low price of £800 a week.

[Altrec]

Have you ever actually stepped foot in Ohio? In the last 30 years?

The slow death of American industry over the latter half of the 20th century killed our economy. The only large city without significant urban decay is Columbus. Housing is cheap here because people, especially young people, have been fleeing the state in droves for decades to find work. Rural Ohio is a literal goddamn wasteland. We have a massive incidence of cancer due to all the coal burning power plants, we're the epicenter of the opiod epidemic, and again, every major city except Columbus has an enormous problem with crime, poverty, homelessness, and bedbugs.

In short, it is a terrible place to live. I only live here because I'm stuck under a mortgage I can't escape because no one wants to buy houses in Ohio.

We're not immune to the housing crisis, either. Rent and property values in areas where you can actually get a job that pays enough to live off are - while still far lower than the coasts - quite a bit higher. Tiny apartments in downtown Cincinnati are on the range of 800-2000 and half the damn buildings in Cincinnati are condemned. It's much higher in Columbus where there is actually an almost decent job market.

Finally, you understand that the housing crisis is primarily a crisis because it's destroying the ability for people to get off the ground as they come into adulthood, right? You can't save 10-20% of a 100-300 thousand dollar down payment when you work for $12 an hour with a Bachelor's degree and have $50,000 in student loan debt.

Where in Ohio do you live? The housing market in several parts of Ohio has been booming for awhile now and only recently slowed down a bit. If you want out nothing is stopping you from leaving. As for myself I have lived here for 37 years and I have nothing to complain about.

[kail]

GL in finding one in Miami that's"affordable".

[Zantos]

Isn't being unable to afford to live and having to shit in a bucket in someone's garage(while making 120kp.a. in silicon valley) a good enough reason to move?

Would that be a good reason? Yes. Now, back to the key point: one doesn't just up and move. Even having a good reason isn't enough if you cannot ensure you'll have a job where ever you go.

[petej0]

Would that be a good reason? Yes. Now, back to the key point: one doesn't just up and move. Even having a good reason isn't enough if you cannot ensure you'll have a job where ever you go.

This is what I dont understand. How is making a ton of money but not being able to afford to live any better quality of life and something worth continuing to do than up rooting yourself and trying to find something better? Moving across the country, or halfway across the country isnt easy, but if you have a job that is transferable wouldnt it be prudent to explore those options?

[klogaroth]

You can buy a house for £1 in Liverpool in the UK.

Why don't you just move there?

[Hilhen7]

This is what I dont understand. How is making a ton of money but not being able to afford to live any better quality of life and something worth continuing to do than up rooting yourself and trying to find something better? Moving across the country, or halfway across the country isnt easy, but if you have a job that is transferable wouldnt it be prudent to explore those options?

But typically people prefer to find a job first before moving, especially if buying a home.

[petej0]

But typically people prefer to find a job first before moving, especially if buying a home.

Yea, you can do that. Nobody is saying you have to move without finding a job first

[Aoyi]

There is no law for minimum down payment in the USA. Similarly you may have to pay for home mortgage insurance if you don't put 20% down. My best friend bought a house in a somewhat rural area (45 mins from downtown). And he put 0% down on his house and does not pay any mortgage insurance at all it was also a brand new house where is the first person to live there. People need to do more research than just looking on Zillow and finding a few places that are what in what they think their price range is.

Just wanted to say what you mentioned is mostly true, but you missed some details. You are correct that there are 0% down loan options available (USDA). These are very specific locations that qualify for those loans. Its not as simple as a “please give me that option Mr. Mortgage Broker.” When applying for that type of loan, your broker needs to enter the address into the database of approved locations. These loans are meant more for farmable land. Nothing states you need to create a farm. Its just you won’t get one of those loans for the city. Its a government loan for specific areas of the country. FHA is a more widely used type of government loan. That one just requires 3.5% down and mortgage insurance. The credit scores required for that are more forgiving than conventional. Conventional loans typically begin at a 5% down payment.

USDA Eligibility: https://eligibility.sc.egov.usda.gov...lcomeAction.dohttp://https://eligibility.sc.egov.u...lcomeAction.do

[Celista]

Okay so for one, that first house looks like hot garbage. Second, I've seen nicer for cheaper. ALSO BEING SAID, places with affordable housing tend to have various issues, such as but not limited to:

1. Physically unattractive area (not nice to look at)
2. Lack of jobs, or lack of well-paying jobs
3. Crime issues
4. Lack of access to desirable amenities (such as an airport).

#1 and #2 seem to be the most common. That is not to say that you can't find a good value in the US, but you should note that the hard part is finding a job where you want to live, and you should be mindful that people tend to move to where the jobs are.

This will not fix the issue but I do think that there are a couple of things that companies can do to rectify this issue regarding lack of affordable housing. One is to move headquarters to more affordable areas in which to live. Another is to offer more jobs with telecommuting options or field offices.

I don't think that the majority of people live in cities because they like cities all that much, I think it's more commonly because people are here because their jobs require them to be.

[Biomega]

I'm not sure OP knows how this works.

If people are complaining "houses are too expensive", finding two examples of houses that aren't literally says NOTHING about the original statement. That's like saying "Van Gogh paintings are expensive? CLEARLY NOT, since I found one at a garage sale for $10."

It's about the bigger picture, not isolated examples. And it's even worse with houses, because you don't have limitless choice - there are a number of parameters that constrict your selection. If your job sends you to California into one of the most expensive counties in the country, for example, then cheap houses in an Ohio suburb mean diddly squat to you. The only way to look at it in terms of generalized statements in the first place (which the original premise was) is to generalize prices, too.

Also, the debate usually involves a historic dimension as well. The issue isn't absolute values of properties so much as the fact that in the last few decades, (inflation-adjusted) wages grew CONSIDERABLY less than housing prices increased over the same period. That means the proportion between income and cost of living is thrown out of whack more and more, and THAT is what people are talking about when they say "houses are too expensive" (because obviously expensive is a relative term, i.e. in this case relative to incomes).

[Dwarfhamster]

Cleveland ranked last in Forbes' "Best Cities for Jobs" ranking in 2018, at 71st out of 71. It was also last in Business Insider's ranking of regional economies, at 40th out of 40. It's also in the midwest so there's plenty of land.

So yeah, housing there is cheap.

Nevermind, I totally misread that--trying to read too quickly.

[Celista]

For now. As more articles like this come out and more word gets around, more people will begin moving to these regions. Housing costs will start increasing.

People won't move there if there aren't jobs. The way it works is that people move FOR jobs, unless they are retired. Not for cheap housing. You can't afford any housing with 0 income.

[Dwarfhamster]

People won't move there if there aren't jobs. The way it works is that people move FOR jobs, unless they are retired. Not for cheap housing. You can't afford any housing with 0 income.

Whoops, I glanced over the post I quoted and totally read that wrong haha.