Titaan residuum from weekly chest

[burek]

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Players who are already geared/skilled enough to be completing dungeons at 20+ keystones are likely not going to need the gear as much and in addition will be at a massive advantage because they'd be able to stockpile Residuum for when the new raid releases and instantly load up on mythic ilvl Azerite armor even though mythic hasn't been released yet.

Considering the residuum rewards and the costs of highest available items are going to increase once the raid launches, I doubt the plan is for anyone to just be able to stockpile it now to buy mythic level items immediately.

[Swalload]

I have to disagree, I get what you're saying but I don't think it just still be pumping out high amounts on super high keys.
High keys +20's are predominantly done by organized regular groups, and would feel a bit disconnected that if you don't happen to have one of these you're going to be massively behind on your azerite gear in comparison.

With it diminishing there is still a small benefit for those massive keys but it's not such a massive gap to punish those either not in one of those groups or playing a class that's unable to do so. Also doesn't pigeon hole you into feeling you need to heavily push M+ outside of raid in order to get your best azerite pieces asap.

As I understand it a +15 is the sweet spot to try and hit each week which is a pretty decent level to aim for imo. Waiting for servers to come up to check residuum levels though.

You're not supposed to be envious of what others have. You're supposed to do your best and get the reward that fits what you accomplish regardless of what others around you end up doing. The point should never be to "try and reward everyone the same".

Also there's going to be Azerite gear dropping in the raid, you wont find yourself naked in the streets if you don't do a +20 each week. You'll get azerite armor from the raid and you can even buy the random cheap ones for faster ilvl or even just try your luck at getting something good. In the end even if there was no diminishing return, the good groups getting more residuum would only have a tiny advantage compared to others who only raid and do a +10 per week.

You guys are talking as if it's impossible to get any item if you can't do a +20, chill the fuck out lol. There will be people with top ilvl azerite armor who never did a single M+.

[Kralljin]

Both class balance and refusing to reward people proportionally to whatthey achieve are design flaws, Blizzard's fault. They need to get their shit together.

Doesn't mean you just turn a blind eye on one problem and basically let that fester to "fix" the other problem.

Yeah i get it, Class balance sucks right now, i agree, but you can't simply ignore the problem.

[Cronovey]

Better players being at an advanatge because they are better. Well yeah, that's how it should be. Why should a shitty player have the same thing a better player gets? It makes no fucking sense. If you're bad you stay in the back of the line and you work your way up by playing better, not by thanking Blizzard for putting up walls that only affect better players.

Also I'm not talking about keeping the ridiculous reward curve going. The first thing you should be concerned with as a designer is to reward players proportionally to what they achieve. Then you see the reward numbers to something that makes sense. Then all is well because you did the right thing. Forcing people to work more to get less is counterproductive. The idea should have never been to "make +10 the optimal option and anyone going over is just wasting their time because we said so hurpadurp"

Except without seeing the actual numbers, you're griping over absolutely nothing at all. Diminishing returns is an absolutely acceptable thing to keep things from getting astronomically out of line, and without you seeing the numbers you're just up in arms over a whole lot of nothing. Now if going from a 10 to a 20 only gave you 15 extra, sure get pissy all you like. But if a 10 to 20 gives you almost double the amount then it's a pretty reasonable curve overall where the sweet spot will probably be around a +15 similar to Legion.

Until you see any actual numbers, keep your pissing contest to yourself is my point. They didn't have a choice but to add diminishing returns to the system and haven't stated what the numbers are yet.

Considering the residuum rewards and the costs of highest available items are going to increase once the raid launches, I doubt the plan is for anyone to just be able to stockpile it now to buy mythic level items immediately.

If the rewards scaled on a constant increase like the other asshat in the thread seems to want, they'd have enough for the mythic raid level pieces immediately upon release day. That's why the diminishing returns on higher keys was implemented in the first place which is the entire point of my post.

[Swalload]

Except without seeing the actual numbers, you're griping over absolutely nothing at all. Diminishing returns is an absolutely acceptable thing to keep things from getting astronomically out of line, and without you seeing the numbers you're just up in arms over a whole lot of nothing. Now if going from a 10 to a 20 only gave you 15 extra, sure get pissy all you like. But if a 10 to 20 gives you almost double the amount then it's a pretty reasonable curve overall where the sweet spot will probably be around a +15 similar to Legion.

Until you see any actual numbers, keep your pissing contest to yourself is my point. They didn't have a choice but to add diminishing returns to the system and haven't stated what the numbers are yet.



If the rewards scaled on a constant increase like the other asshat in the thread seems to want, they'd have enough for the mythic raid level pieces immediately upon release day. That's why the diminishing returns on higher keys was implemented in the first place which is the entire point of my post.

I already said my problem with this is the mentality. Thinking it's fine to reduce the reward as the effort required goes up is literally retardation, no matter what the numbers are.

[Yunaqt]

You're not supposed to be envious of what others have. You're supposed to do your best and get the reward that fits what you accomplish regardless of what others around you end up doing. The point should never be to "try and reward everyone the same".

Also there's going to be Azerite gear dropping in the raid, you wont find yourself naked in the streets if you don't do a +20 each week. You'll get azerite armor from the raid and you can even buy the random cheap ones for faster ilvl or even just try your luck at getting something good. In the end even if there was no diminishing return, the good groups getting more residuum would only have a tiny advantage compared to others who only raid and do a +10 per week.

You guys are talking as if it's impossible to get any item if you can't do a +20, chill the fuck out lol. There will be people with top ilvl azerite armor who never did a single M+.

I guess at least your guilds Rogues & DHs will be sorted quickly.

Regardless, I'm happy that diminishing is the route it's taken so it evens itself out more at the top end of things. Leaving a benefit to keep pushing higher keys without it feeling like more of a grind.

[Swalload]

Doesn't mean you just turn a blind eye on one problem and basically let that fester to "fix" the other problem.

Yeah i get it, Class balance sucks right now, i agree, but you can't simply ignore the problem.

To be fair the class balance isn't even as bad as it seems. People make a big deal out of it but you could just get a good group who does +20 now, make them play the 5 worst classes and they will still be able to do finish a +20. It will take longer and it will be harder butthe class balance isn't SO OFF that it makes content impossible to finish.

[klepp0906]

Actually this makes a lot of sense. Think about it, if you're not in the current M+ Meta for high (15+) mythic then you would be screwed in terms of gaining residuum each week.

im not meta at all. not even close. (ww) and i did a 17 and several 16's this week. Am i doing 20s? nope.. but i agree. This is just another insult in a long line of em. They didnt get the memo its one chunk (out of many) as to why people are salty with the game atm. I mean, the minimum of some dungeons to even get ON the boards for my realm was 12's. Not hard, by a stretch when even the most casual player is 380 due to the pinata system.

progression doesnt really exist anymore in any form. dick off, half ass, and still stay legit. more or less..

fun. for THOSE guys, not me.

[Kralljin]

To be fair the class balance isn't even as bad as it seems. People make a big deal out of it but you could just get a good group who does +20 now, make them play the 5 worst classes and they will still be able to do finish a +20. It will take longer and it will be harder butthe class balance isn't SO OFF that it makes content impossible to finish.

Probably, depends on the player, gear, key, affixes and so forth.

It's this old age argument, you can also kill G'huun without two Warlock at this point probably, it's just a lot more hassle than with a better setup.

And obviously ignores the fact that they have to put in a lot more effort.

The truth is simply that M+ is a balance nightmare on steroids and shifting too much gearing into this mode is due that not to my liking.

[Cronovey]

I already said my problem with this is the mentality. Thinking it's fine to reduce the reward as the effort required goes up is literally retardation, no matter what the numbers are.

Except the reward isn't being reduced; you're still gaining more for doing higher level content. The reward is not being reduced in any way; increased reward for higher level content is still going to apply, just not at some dumbass astronomical rate.

[Swalload]

Except the reward isn't being reduced; you're still gaining more for doing higher level content. The reward is not being reduced in any way; increased reward for higher level content is still going to apply, just not at some dumbass astronomical rate.

Yeah but those are not the only 2 options. It could just increase the same amount with every level and it would be a better situation than having diminishing return or letting it go exponentially insane.

[Cronovey]

Yeah but those are not the only 2 options. It could just increase the same amount with every level and it would be a better situation than having diminishing return or letting it go exponentially insane.

Diminishing returns may end up rewarding more than a flat amount though; if every keystone level added an extra 12 would you rather be doing a 20 and getting 220, or having it go 20/18/16/14/12/10/10/10/10/10 and getting 230 with there being a sweet spot around the 15-16 level but you still getting more than everyone else in the long run by completing higher level keys?

The diminishing returns method establishes a sweet spot to prevent player burnout from feeling forced to complete absurdly high keys but also still rewards players who do decide to continue pushing super hard. Above a 20+ you could see reduced return for your time investment, but that will only affect the best players in the world who are doing it for the prestige more than they are for the rewards at that point.

[Swalload]

Diminishing returns may end up rewarding more than a flat amount though; if every keystone level added an extra 12 would you rather be doing a 20 and getting 220, or having it go 20/18/16/14/12/10/10/10/10/10 and getting 230 with there being a sweet spot around the 15-16 level but you still getting more than everyone else in the long run by completing higher level keys?

The diminishing returns method establishes a sweet spot to prevent player burnout from feeling forced to complete absurdly high keys but also still rewards players who do decide to continue pushing super hard. Above a 20+ you could see reduced return for your time investment, but that will only affect the best players in the world who are doing it for the prestige more than they are for the rewards at that point.

What about people who feel like they're not getting rewarded what they deserve? Why is there people even caring about what better players receive? Do your thing, get what you worked for and if you want more, be better.

[huth]

The result is not that serious. It's the concept of thinking it's okay to do things like this that's appaling.

You haven't actually done the numbers, have you? Growth between 1-10 is exponential. They cannot let that continue and have it not go crazy.

[Swalload]

You haven't actually done the numbers, have you? Growth between 1-10 is exponential. They cannot let that continue and have it not go crazy.

So don't? Having numbers go like that is not a fucking law. It's a random dude who arbitrarily decided to make it like that. Like amlost everything else in WoW, he was most likely perfectly wrong.

Make it a linear upgrade. 50 points or whatever per key level.

[huth]

im not meta at all. not even close. (ww) and i did a 17 and several 16's this week. Am i doing 20s? nope.. but i agree. This is just another insult in a long line of em. They didnt get the memo its one chunk (out of many) as to why people are salty with the game atm. I mean, the minimum of some dungeons to even get ON the boards for my realm was 12's. Not hard, by a stretch when even the most casual player is 380 due to the pinata system.

progression doesnt really exist anymore in any form. dick off, half ass, and still stay legit. more or less..

fun. for THOSE guys, not me.

Not even close. Try 340-360. Shows the problem with your argumentation, though. You're working off completely absurd premises.

[snugglewump]

I got 23 on my druid that did a 9 last week and 86 on my rogue that did a 17 last week.

[huth]

So don't? Having numbers go like that is not a fucking law. It's a random dude who arbitrarily decided to make it like that. Like amlost everything else in WoW, he was most likely perfectly wrong.

Make it a linear upgrade. 50 points or whatever per key level.

So you still get diminishing returns on higher keys and haven't won anything? Is your goal to kick your own ass or what?

[Yunaqt]

60 from a +10
83 for a +16
86 for a +17
89 for a +18

[burek]

I got 23 on my druid that did a 9 last week and 86 on my rogue that did a 17 last week.

So 2 weeks for a random or 2 months for a specific item. Doesn't sound bad if you are doing 17s. Anyone with lower key info?