New Warmode buff...

[Jotaux]

It's gone to shit already. Now the Horde are turning off pvp on my server and encouraging others to do the same out of spite. I'm gonna give it another week, but this isn't looking to bright.

To clarify, since I was confused at first too, the issue seems to be over a quest which rewards only Alliance players with a 370 item for killing Horde players.

Its smart to turn it off for a week then turn it on next week and get the 30% buff.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you might have had trouble in your math class if you do not understand that getting 17 (10%) and 51 (30%) isn't even that big of a deal

I like how you seem to think "200-250" average (aka 10% ~= 22.5 and 30% ~= 67.5) is that much different from my 17 and 51 example (even though currently 1/3rd of the WQs for me are 172 or less AP). But hur dur, better cuss and shit even though it just makes you look like a dunce.

You're thinking about things in terms of absolute numbers and not in terms of magnitude. An 18% advantage is 18%. At 1k ap thats 180, at 10k thats 1.8k, and so forth.

(1.3/1.1-1=18%)

[Bhorin]

You're thinking about things in terms of absolute numbers and not in terms of magnitude. An 18% advantage is 18%. At 1k ap thats 180, at 10k thats 1.8k, and so forth.

(1.3/1.1-1=18%)

Thanks for stating the obvious. It's almost like if you did 10 WQs with my example it would be 170 vs 510 AP.

[Nasuuna]

Is it?

A few days ago you were the other end of the spectrum. Teary-eyed Alliance weeping about how unfair everything is refusing to turn on Warmode. Now we got Horde complaining how it's unfair that ONLY the Alliance gets stuff for doing what both factions are expected to do.

Hopefully the Horde instigators are less convincing than you guys where and maybe we'll see some balance settling in.

you got to deck all your alts in 340s for free

we got 1 370 we have to work for

[Jotaux]

Thanks for stating the obvious. It's almost like if you did 10 WQs with my example it would be 170 vs 510 AP.

I had to state the obvious so you could understand basic math.

[Bhorin]

I had to state the obvious so you could understand basic math.

Well, unfortunately you provided nothing helpful or constructive to the conversation. Bravo.

[zebreck]

We could solve literally all of these problems if Blizz just admitted that literally zero people enjoy world pvp. Zero. That's why it always results in massive faction imbalance, because people game the world PvP system so as to engage in as little world PvP as possible, and to ensure that what world PvP does accidentally happen is as lopsided and quick as possible. Blizz keeps trying to get people to do things that zero people want to do. Either remove all bonuses and incentives from warmode, leave it opt in, and have done with it, or eliminate all PvP that's not instanced and move on.

[-aiko-]

Huh, interesting how the narrative changes when it's your side getting roflstomped.


This isn't the solution I'd like long-term, but I'd be lying if I didn't get a little satisfaction from this.

[Yamzi]

We could solve literally all of these problems if Blizz just admitted that literally zero people enjoy world pvp. Zero. That's why it always results in massive faction imbalance, because people game the world PvP system so as to engage in as little world PvP as possible, and to ensure that what world PvP does accidentally happen is as lopsided and quick as possible. Blizz keeps trying to get people to do things that zero people want to do. Either remove all bonuses and incentives from warmode, leave it opt in, and have done with it, or eliminate all PvP that's not instanced and move on.

0 people? How can you speak for the whole wow community. Personally, I bloody love world pvp. I've pvp'd so much this expansion more than i have in the others. I am having a ball of a time. But yeah, Zero guys. Zero.

[kamuimac]

So I joined a 40 man zerg and went and killed 25 horde in their capital. I can't believe that is kind of "PvP" blizzard wants to endorse. It was a joke. Now I turned warmode off and wont turn it on again unless there is some other rando reward.

thats they only way they can force allience into turning WM ON - if it wouldnt be for free 370 nobody besides people who level up would be turning it on .

and now they can pretend that people use the mode

its a complete mockery of WPVP - groups run from xibala into city kill people afking on stairs and disbands whenever people get 25 kills and turn WM off because why use it .

this way allience will be getting free hc raiding quality loot every week because they still turn it off when done with quest.

did a lot of stuff in the world today - still didnt see even a single allience player with WM on neither in horde zones nor in drustvar (incursion)

complete joke .

[baskev]

And yet you lot were not complaining in the first few weeks of BfA when Alliance was dominating a ton of shards. Only when your fellow Alliance players decided to outright stop participating in war mode did the bitching start. I wonder why...

Welcome back. Long time no seen.

First thing: in launch BFA...launch says everything of the rest of the time before and after the launch when pvp was also crap :S. PvP sharding has always been crap for me. ( get group ganked or ganked by x times higher level etc). So i can not talk for other shards who in a short time period might have it better. ( maybe to do with launch numbers being more players playing)? So your response in a short period on some servers. ( witch i and many other players clearly do not play on) it was the otherway around. But for the rest of other expansions including this one its normal a horde kills alliance fest....but that clearly does not count. Only that small period :P.

Secondly: Blizzard does not do things because some people complain. They did their research on numbers and saw that it needed a correction. ( nope i do not think this is the solution). I even think they do not understand the complete problem there is.

thirdly: We did not start bitching as alliance players...we just turned the mode off. ( yes maybe some people cry). And horde is not not happy because they do not like the buff we get (witch only is that high when there are more horde then alliance players).....so it gets lower when its more equal. So.....either the system is broken or there are more horde players on the shards.
And btw horde are the ones mad now. They turn of warmode. So then the 30% will become 10% ( like normal) and its balanced again :P.

So in short:
- a short time on a few servers. Does not tell how it is for the rest of other previous and current expansions.
- Blizzard does not just do stuff because people want it. Otherwise i want other kul tiran druid forms...( not going to happen and i know people like them).
- we did not start crying etc. we just did not turn it on.
- and ( so far i can find) the system gives you a max of 30% if its unbalanced on your realm. but it gets lower when there are equal number of players. So its a fair system.
- Is this the solution. Nope. I think it is not.


here something to read:
The reward bonuses from War Mode can now scale above 10% when a faction was outnumbered over the course of the preceding week, up to a maximum of 30% additional quest rewards and experience.

So it looks at Realm X: and says , in week 50 you where out matched a lot so you get 30% buff.
And in week 51 you where eqauly matched so you both get 10% buff....

So fair solution....but not a good one.

[klepp0906]

Jeha, Horde had literally free 10% to everything without ever getting in Danger (at least in BFA Zones), and now, when the Aliiance, who alsmost got nothing in BFA except a big middle finger all the time and wasn't able to use Warmode, get something....The Horde starts bi******* around.

Hilarious!

this /thread

[cparle87]

Yes, and I disagree with that.

Do you have any arguments to make? Anything evidence to give to disagree with my statement? Before the change people were running around in safety in numbers ganking people of the other side. If Sircowdog's idea were to be implemented, it would simply get worse as the people would see they could get even more rewards from killing the other side if they stay in groups where their own individual danger is reduced.

[Deleted]

It's entirely fair. What people don't seem to understand is that it isn't a buff to alliance... it's a buff to whichever faction has less players. If enough horde players stop queueing or enough alliance start queueing, eventually the buff will go to the horde instead.

Except it's not, it's entirely flat and doesn't change dynamically based on who is outnumbered on the shard. There's been a visible ramp up in alliance participation in WPVP, I don't think anyone is daft enough to deny that - if it was dynamic it would surely have at least dropped down to 29%, but it hasn't moved. Hell, you can log into a low level alliance character and enjoy retarded-fast power leveling in alliance quest zones that have zero horde presence for free, it's great.

If you want the under-represented players who are at risk to get increased rewards, then surely you want a dynamic system.
That isn't what's in place right now, it's entirely flat and static.

[Powerogue]

It's about damn time Horde players got a taste of this shit.

I didn't appreciate your lot camping the Seekers base in Stormsong every time the cache rolls around, or even that time the same names killed Tidesage Morris over and over again for a solid hour to stop Alliance players from getting credit for it.

Oooh, remember the time the horde mercilessly camped the timeless isle timewalking vendors for the entire event?

Yeah, they can eat it. What happened to "just form a counter-raid" guys? :P

[Alixie]

Did PVP happen?

[SirCowdog]

Do you have any arguments to make? Anything evidence to give to disagree with my statement? Before the change people were running around in safety in numbers ganking people of the other side. If Sircowdog's idea were to be implemented, it would simply get worse as the people would see they could get even more rewards from killing the other side if they stay in groups where their own individual danger is reduced.

Specifically, which idea of mine?

[cparle87]

Specifically, which idea of mine?

Your one in post #10, where you stated people should get their rewards increased based on their "performance." I believe doing that would simply exacerbate the problem of people running around in packs just to wreck any solo people they come across at little to no risk to themselves.

[SirCowdog]

Your one in post #10, where you stated people should get their rewards increased based on their "performance." I believe doing that would simply exacerbate the problem of people running around in packs just to wreck any solo people they come across at little to no risk to themselves.

That probably needs clarifying. Let me do so with a question:

How much performance do you think it takes for a large group(10+) to kill a single opponent?

In this case it seems reasonable that rewards should be based on proportion of group sizes. Not just having the reward spread across the entire raid, but weighted for group size as well.

For example: A solo player might normally be qorth 10 honor points. But divide that by a 20 man raid and each player only gets a half point of honor. That half point is then penalized by group size disparity, which probably mean no honor at all.

It's more of the same theme of trying to distribute rewards fairly and de-inventivize shitty behaviour. Most of the problem stems from trying to adapt any such systems to WoWs virtually complete lack of PVP fundamentals for the open world. Because of that lack, any solution we come up with will have problems.

In this specific case, people would probably macro to leave group before kills or something. It's definitely got problems. But then again, I don't get paid a blizzard salary to sit around and think up solutions either. This has all been off the cuff, amd more in the vein of general concepts rather than detailed specific solutions.

[Alkizon]

Or just delete factions, useless feature no one should care about, make WPvP FFA, let people group and guild with anyone, open chat to everyone so we can talk shit and see people cry. The true essence of online gaming. It would solve all imbalance problems.

And I (and not only) talked about it for a long time, it’s just that it won't be old way wPvP (lore base, conflicting with role-playing aspect, change world rules (fraction, speaking opportunities), not so much in current historical situation, but still brings decent chaos), here’s a quote:

Will you condemn someone for attacking those who are engaged in their own affairs on battleground (av? =toggle="new-way" open world)? And now the same question for "old-way" open world... - That's what is called a true analogy. War mode isn't fraction/resources (old true wPvP) fight, but just exactly "killing-for-killing mode" (ganking/BG - instance mode pvp). For completeness the picture remains to add Arena rule into it (no fractions - all against all except those in the group).

Conclusion: No choice or spontaneity of situation, only monotonous methodical murdering = bored and depressingly sad.

Did you like Ashran? But this is exactly what this toggle is and this is what you are going to get on a global scale. I won't be surprised if this idea was left as last will to the team by Holinka himself before leaving.

The only correct decision within current concept (without changing direction) that they can do is to remove bonus (and yeap - delete fraction bondaries, but as I already said, have to change world rules: fraction, speaking opportunities and don't forget about your parallel cross-realms-shards active search system; and this will become completely different game (do you see now difference between shard/server implementation? - erasing boundaries between players, between which there must be rigid one)) and leave this area to those who really like the process without any bonuses. But they are afraid (and not unreasonably, as well as WF&IE&M+ would have died out without "bonus") that together with this such shard will die out completely for most people would prefere to avoid problems rather then get them. And it doesn't matter that they were interested in such activity on PvP servers; since rules are already strikingly different (details' links in my previous message), process is completely different.

Like: TotC-faction champions (WotLK), Legendary cloak (Pandaria), Orphans' week achivments
(the most fun is that PvE-players themselves were perceived and still perceiving negatively all these attempts to make PvP in PvE, converse wording is also true)

-- Edit --
And yes, I support the speaker above, Ashran is a large PvE zone with PvP flag always on included, it's such a terrible piece of sh*t. I was in this area only once for 5 months of the game before leaving, I had enough impressions for the rest of my life. I felt quite confident in PvP, I had no problems with participation in this process, but how much it was disgusting and uninteresting (still I can count attempt, it wasn't game's design violation itself, just unsuccessful innovation)

But the fact that they are niggling PvP-servers now and turn them into a toggle for PvE servers (actually turning entire Azeroth and related locations into Ashran) - here begins game's design violation.

PvP servers don't conflict with anything of this, but they were removed solely in order to facilitate their support work, and not because they wanted to "return interest to wPvP". It's just easier/cheaper for them to leave all problems to automation and forget about it (they have a lot in common with their current subscription base in that sign). But they greatly overestimate possibilities of automation and are completely inadequate in understanding subscribers' ingenuity/interests/preferences in the strength of their fragmentation/heterogeneity and (as I also said at the end of previous message) this leads us to the most fundamental issue in game design, which for about 8 years they don’t want to answer for themselves

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[Termak]

Biggest problem in "worldpvp" is the ppl just jumping to different shard when they in trouble after enemy gathers some kind of antiganker response.