What if we LOST a Raid/Battle?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

You eventually run into the Arthas problem. Where the more we "lose" the less powerful the villain feels because "why isn't he just killing us if we can't stop him?"

I think Blizz did victory well with Antorus. It was pyrrhic victory in the purest sense. We imprisoned Sargeras, but we didn't kill him, and he pretty much roflstomped Azeroth in the process.

[Rendark]

That sounds lame.

[XDurionX]

What's the point in playing something you know you'll lose? Blizz could as well burn the money.

[Deleted]

That would make for an interesting and original idea.
So.... that would be probably recieved fairly poorly by the community.

Even better raid would be one where one faction wins and the other loses. But the faction biased kids would probably tear Blizzard HQ down if that happened.

[ParanoiD84]

Should just do a end times event where the legion wins and destroy the planet then we restart fresh on a new planet/planets. And that's how wow 2 came to be.

[Otrew]

could be a nice mid point in a expansion, 4 raids in the seconds we loose and next patch change all the current continent after our defeat, final raid we take revenge.

[Tiwack]

Imo it would be more fun, not just for the variety but to feel like rag-tag adventurers out on a limb instead of boss-slapping heroes always at the center of the story.

This did happen with the Lich King in Halls of Reflection. The Lich King was too powerful for us and we have to escape while fighting enemies along the way.

They were super nervous about that one and why it's not been done before or after, people play to win and don't like to be faced with insurmountable odds even if it's part of the design that gives them their loot.

[Khallid]

I think it would be an interesting concept, if we faced some foe that was too strong, at least for now.

Up to this point, there has been no foe that 10-40 of Azeroths finest can't defeat, no matter how powerful they seem. Lich King Arthas, Deathwing, Malygos, Illidan, Ghuun, etc. Last night fighting Mythrax it occurred to me, theres no real reason why this group of ragtag adventurers should be able to kill what a Loa had to sacrifice it's life for before.

How are we a ragtag group of adventurers? We are the most legendary heroes that stomped endless hordes of demons, world-ending catastrophes and even titans. We've gathered all the most powerful artifacts across space and time and we're harnessing even more strength from the planet right now. Lore-wise we are so strong that the old gods should bow down to us.

[Narzok]

it could be done in a "protect this ritual or we all die" style fight.
kinda like Ultraxion.

story-wise you could argue that the enemy did not want to resort to a certain ability due to it's side effects harming his/her/it's plans (being in bosses own domain and not wanting to harm it).

again, taking azshara as an example:
we fight her somewhere in her own territory while her minions do a ritual to do old-god-stuff. (or fe fight her minion while she does the stuff)
we hinder the ritual to a point where it's success seems unlikely. and azshara proceeds to level the area, something she could not have done with an important ritual nearby

[Eon Drache]

It wasn't a "raid" but we did lose on the broken shore? That was just the last expac....

[Demsi]

Battle for dazar'alor, if you're horde that is

[rohoz]

Battle for undercity as alliance, is a total loss

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Is sh really that powerful? I have my doubts she's that strong to be honest.

Most power in Warcraft isn't inherent, it comes from magical artifacts. Basically to all intents and purposes gear=skill.

[jackofwind]

Old Gods, Demons, Dragons, everything has been defeated. We have never truly tasted defeat. We need a fight where we lose. No loot. Just story/raid progression.

You want a long autoscroller of a boss fight that has no loot at the end? Welcome to either the most skipped boss in WoW's history or the most hated raid of all time.

[Amaterasu65]

You mean like Garrosh? Because he is exactly what you describe.

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But they did do it

Garrosh in Siege of Orgrimmar and Lich King in Halls of Reflection.

Garrosh didn't beat us. We beat the shit out of him then the faction leaders intervened and they decided on a trial. I suggest you try to understand before you respond with false information. Lich King in HoR was not a fight but an escape.

[Beerbill Society]

Well, Sylvanas is going to capture N'Zoth in the empty Blade of the Black Empire and use its power to open a rift to the shadowlands through the emerald nightmare.

Dude o.O it all makes sense now fuck.

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Garrosh didn't beat us. We beat the shit out of him then the faction leaders intervened and they decided on a trial. I suggest you try to understand before you respond with false information. Lich King in HoR was not a fight but an escape.

Advancing in the other direction*

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Well OP, blizzard did that too much already, maybe not exactly on your terms.

Tempest Keep was just a setback, kind.

[Deleted]

You mean like Garrosh? Because he is exactly what you describe.

- - - Updated - - -

But they did do it

Garrosh in Siege of Orgrimmar and Lich King in Halls of Reflection.

We still got loot at the end.Let's get something like,get boss to 0.1% ,boss shows true power and wipes us we get nothing but achiv and thats the end of the raid

[Renedric]

How about the objective of the fight, player-wise, is to get the loot not defeat the boss. Sure the characters go in there with the intention to kill the unkillable boss and get owned, but that would mean there's no drive for players. So instead they must reach a certain objective in the fight in order to unlock loot after they're razzed and consider the encounter "defeated" even though they actually lost.

[AngerFork]

The one catch you have to remember about any sort of raid that we lose is that we will likely be in there for 4-6 months, possibly more. There's already a certain amount of the raid that might feel unfulfilling if we are consistently losing that often, over and over. That's also going to feel really weird in a couple expansions when we one-hit the boss, then suddenly fall over as the boss proclaims we never had a chance.

[Logwyn]

Should just do a end times event where the legion wins and destroy the planet then we restart fresh on a new planet/planets. And that's how wow 2 came to be.

You might be on to something!!!