Lack of class sets is what has killed raiding for me

[rohoz]

No, not all set bonuses where super exiting and as I said, it's not that big of a deal but many of them felt more intresting than the wierd system with azerite armor that we have now. Very few of them are unique or at all intresting.

It's just not a very fun or engaging.

that's your bias speaking there for sure.
Azerite has had way more dynamic changes to your rotation than tier, save a few instances, but people just have it in their mind that "NO. TIER IS GOOD. AZERITE BAD"

https://www.wowhead.com/item=99157/h...blinking-vigil

4pc on that is basically what one azerite piece would give you. And you have three to choose from. People hate it because it isn't tier, not because it's objectively bad.

[Aggrophobic]

that's your bias speaking there for sure.
Azerite has had way more dynamic changes to your rotation than tier, save a few instances, but people just have it in their mind that "NO. TIER IS GOOD. AZERITE BAD"

https://www.wowhead.com/item=99157/h...blinking-vigil

4pc on that is basically what one azerite piece would give you. And you have three to choose from. People hate it because it isn't tier, not because it's objectively bad.

I'm not hating it. It's less intresting to have a set of generic procs that you get in different combinations. Set tier felt epic and you only got it from hard content (sure, LFR messed that up a bit) but the armor we get now drops everywhere anb it's just not exiting to loot it anymore. Loot a s awhole is less exiting no actually.

But of course it's my "bias" or rather my opinion. I'm not exited about the loot and I'm not having as much fun as I used to. Whats your point? That I'm having fun in the "wrong" way?

[Soon-TM]

Whats your point? That I'm having fun in the "wrong" way?

It's interesting how Ion and all his sycophants always end up saying (or rather, heavily implying) that those of us who don't like BfA's systems is because we're having fun the wrong way

Btw, it doesn't help that cloth and plate sets from Uldir are ugly as sin.

[rohoz]

I'm not hating it. It's less intresting to have a set of generic procs that you get in different combinations. Set tier felt epic and you only got it from hard content (sure, LFR messed that up a bit) but the armor we get now drops everywhere anb it's just not exiting to loot it anymore. Loot a s awhole is less exiting no actually.

But of course it's my "bias" or rather my opinion. I'm not exited about the loot and I'm not having as much fun as I used to. Whats your point? That I'm having fun in the "wrong" way?

>generic procs
>literally more complex versions of class set bonuses throughout the years

Okay.
This is why I say "bias" instead of opinion.

Let's be honest, that whole "tier came from hard content" is a bullshit argument. Have you forgotten WoTLK and ICC tier from il 200 badges? Were you excited then?
Or cata, where it happened until *gasp* lfr came out.

You mean tiers 1-6, then? 6 tiers out of 21 were "hard" to acquire.

A bias is a prejudiced opinion. Which is what you have.

[lolpve]

Tier sets were wrongfun. You guys need to learn how to have rightfun like the other 20 people still playing BFA.

[Aggrophobic]

>generic procs
>literally more complex versions of class set bonuses throughout the years

Okay.
This is why I say "bias" instead of opinion.

Let's be honest, that whole "tier came from hard content" is a bullshit argument. Have you forgotten WoTLK and ICC tier from il 200 badges? Were you excited then?
Or cata, where it happened until *gasp* lfr came out.

You mean tiers 1-6, then? 6 tiers out of 21 were "hard" to acquire.

A bias is a prejudiced opinion. Which is what you have.

You're trying too hard here. Not all set bonuses were great but they still felt impactful and getting them felt great. Once the set were done I, at least felt a sense of accomplishment.

It came from raids then. Badges were a good idea to remove some of the bad RNG. Maybe getting thoes badges was a bit too easy in Wrath and I'm not a fan of LFR as a whole but I still liked the idea if seperate tier sets for each class. It actually felt that Blizzard put more effort into thoes even if some ses were less intresting than others.

You are very welcome to have a different opinion but your overly agressive tone is not going to get you anywhere in life. People will just get annoyed and ignore what you have to say no matter if you're right or not. Think about that for a while, why don't you?

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It's interesting how Ion and all his sycophants always end up saying (or rather, heavily implying) that those of us who don't like BfA's systems is because we're having fun the wrong way

Btw, it doesn't help that cloth and plate sets from Uldir are ugly as sin.

Yeah, thats an odd one.

The looks are fine though, imo. You like some designs and you dislike others. Thats how it's always been.
Thank the holy cow for transmogs

[rohoz]

You're trying too hard here. Not all set bonuses were great but they still felt impactful and getting them felt great. Once the set were done I, at least felt a sense of accomplishment.

It came from raids then. Badges were a good idea to remove some of the bad RNG. Maybe getting thoes badges was a bit too easy in Wrath and I'm not a fan of LFR as a whole but I still liked the idea if seperate tier sets for each class. It actually felt that Blizzard put more effort into thoes even if some ses were less intresting than others.

You are very welcome to have a different opinion but your overly agressive tone is not going to get you anywhere in life. People will just get annoyed and ignore what you have to say no matter if you're right or not. Think about that for a while, why don't you?

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, thats an odd one.

The looks are fine though, imo. You like some designs and you dislike others. Thats how it's always been.
Thank the holy cow for transmogs

I'm just correcting you where you're wrong, or rather, pointing out the inconsistencies in your arguments.
Tier was hard to acquire before WOTLK, and in TBC they were flat% increases to spells, and in Vanilla they were generally threat reduction.
Your feefees about getting a full tier set doesn't change the fact that most tier bonuses were trash until maybe dragon soul, and that's objectively speaking.

You don't need separate sets when azerite has spec specific bonuses for every class, like what. the only difference between tier and azerite now is that tier is class specific. You get the same bonuses from azerite. I have "the first dance" trait on my rogue, which is X haste rating+ 2 cps when you shadow dance. That single trait is more involved than 15 tier sets (and 30 tier set bonus combos). Just say you're biased against bfa and go, you're objectively wrong.

inb4 "u r hurting my feelings so im going 2 ignore u"

[Aggrophobic]

I'm just correcting you where you're wrong, or rather, pointing out the inconsistencies in your arguments.
Tier was hard to acquire before WOTLK, and in TBC they were flat% increases to spells, and in Vanilla they were generally threat reduction.
Your feefees about getting a full tier set doesn't change the fact that most tier bonuses were trash until maybe dragon soul, and that's objectively speaking.

You don't need separate sets when azerite has spec specific bonuses for every class, like what. the only difference between tier and azerite now is that tier is class specific. You get the same bonuses from azerite. I have "the first dance" trait on my rogue, which is X haste rating+ 2 cps when you shadow dance. That single trait is more involved than 15 tier sets (and 30 tier set bonus combos). Just say you're biased against bfa and go, you're objectively wrong.

inb4 "u r hurting my feelings so im going 2 ignore u"

So, I'm having fun the wrong way. Ok then.
I'm not going to ignore you and my feelings are not hurt but you're not getting anywhere with that attitude.

[rohoz]

So, I'm having fun the wrong way. Ok then.
I'm not going to ignore you and my feelings are not hurt but you're not getting anywhere with that attitude.

I never said anything about where/how you decided to have fun. I'm just saying that tier wasn't what people made it out to be. There is no attitude.

[Hoeth]

I used to at least participate in every raid tier of an expansion - never good enough to get CE but enough to at least be enjoying the content.

I've hardly even touched raid finder in BfA because I look at the rewards and they just aren't enticing. War fronts may have incredibly dull gameplay, but I've had Darkshore on farm since it came out because the sets for it just look incredible.

Coupled with the lieu of issues with Azerite armor and the disruptive feel class design, there's no real point pushing the limit of raiding this expansion because the rewards just aren't worth it.

Raiding isn't doing it for me either, but I certainly don't miss class sets. Each spec was balanced around the assumption that you had a 4-piece bonus, which stinks for those only interested in M+ and non-raiders, AND I can't even count the number of times I'd get a 20ilvl upgrade from a cache or something only for it to sit in my bank because I would break my 4-set. With Blizzards wierd obsession with wanting players to IMMEDIATELY equip whatever drops, I'm surprised they kept the 4-set bonuses for 8+ years.

[HuxNeva]

I agree. They could have removed the 2-piece and 4-piece effects, but still kept class specific armor looks to have more collectability and flavor.

[Deleted]

WoW has been doing fairly terribly in terms of impressive cosmetics lately. Tier sets were terrible for gameplay, but I guess they did offer something in terms of cosmetics that's kind of lost now.

The only time tier sets were ever even close to "terrible for gameplay" was when there were a bunch of legendaries also hogging gear spots in Legion.

[DarthMonk79]

wow... so people complain about how their classes Tier sets look every expansion so this time they decided to base sets on the Raid itself and what happens.... people complain about the "tier" sets. My god all people do on these damn post/forums is complain

[Frostyfire14]

I agree. Not having something to go for in a raid, other than a boss kill, feels weird. Doesn't feel like raiding anymore. Just feels like a really difficult Mythic+. (Difficult because of needing 20 people, instead of 5)

[LedZeppelin]

not enough to make me stop raiding but definitely should be added back in, set bonuses or not.

[Deleted]

Horrible Legion raids is what killed raiding for me.

[delus]

I used to at least participate in every raid tier of an expansion - never good enough to get CE but enough to at least be enjoying the content.

I've hardly even touched raid finder in BfA because I look at the rewards and they just aren't enticing. War fronts may have incredibly dull gameplay, but I've had Darkshore on farm since it came out because the sets for it just look incredible.

Coupled with the lieu of issues with Azerite armor and the disruptive feel class design, there's no real point pushing the limit of raiding this expansion because the rewards just aren't worth it.

My problem with class sets was that everyone of a specific armor type coul get your class look anyways. What good is having a unique aesthetic when everyone copies you? And towards the end, set bonuses were just boring.

[Lothaeryn]

My problem with class sets was that everyone of a specific armor type coul get your class look anyways. What good is having a unique aesthetic when everyone copies you? And towards the end, set bonuses were just boring.

Variety? Are we seriously opposing having variety of all fucking things in an MMO?

Who fucking cares if the paladin dresses like an edgelord DK in Tier 10 Heroic recolor, at least its an option for them to wear if they dont wan't to dress as a stoic paladin for a while. Not to mention that is gives more transmog options for putting a set together of your choosing from mixed parts.

What good is a single armor set per armor class aside from (the perceived) saving of development time for art design? It gives nothing to the player. Uldir's sets have one theme going for them and has the least variety in art design of the entire franchise. you get one set, no choice, no aesthetic touches you can opt out of for that tier's design.

You can tout "but you have transmog to choose from past options" all you want, it ultimately boils down to less assets for the player to play with. With little to no change in patch development time. If a few people like to transmog as another class, how does that hurt the value of an armor set? If you really wanted class-only design, there are tons of old tier sets and PvP sets that are class specific to choose from all the same even if we WANTED to used that simple rhetoric.

[Torrasque]

I suppose I'm the voice of opposition, I prefer not being slotted into raids to fill out tier sets.

[Biomega]

The only time tier sets were ever even close to "terrible for gameplay" was when there were a bunch of legendaries also hogging gear spots in Legion.

I'd disagree. Quite the contrary, legendaries actually made things interesting, because you had actual decisions to make. Before that, you just had way too many slots that were 100% fixed into tier sets, with no actual gearing decisions. For the longest time, your decisions were usually limited to "I'll wear 4/5 pieces of tier, and I get to choose 1 slot where I don't" which did not make for terribly interesting gearing decisions.

But don't get me wrong - Azerite locking 4 slots is only marginally better.