Should Holy get a Rework?

[Smag]

I've stopped doing M raids (or any raid for that matter) in Legion when the M+ picked up steam, so my judgement on raids is limited if non-existent.

But, Holy in M+ sucks so bad it's not even funny. My main Hpally since TBC is rotting in alt-limbo since the start of BfA and I just can't with it's clunky ass mechanics.
I think there is probably 1 Holy Paladin in Top 300 on RIO, and I'm not about to subject me or my group mates to the horror that is trying to heal up necrotic on 15+ or higher. HPS outside of CDs is low, tank healing, of all things, is shit.

Yeah, I think we need a rework. Yesterday.

[bulutooth23]

As it stands Holy paladins are not in a good place in terms of gameplay, there's nothing interesting or exciting about holy anymore, as all the fun toys that Legion brought with it is gone, thus making it the least enjoyable healing spec in the game (IMHO).

Do you agree? Should holy get a rework and if so Why/why not?

I think for raiding I agree with you. But i think it is still enjoyable and quite good for M+

[Erous]

I don't have any issues with my holy paladin, and parse on average in the purples and oranges. I'm happy with the current healing style and toolkits, because we can adapt to changing conditions pretty well. Distance healing is still an issue due to our mastery, but you find ways to work around it. I miss the old absorb mastery and would be a nice to have in place of what we have today.

[Deleted]

Yes, it needs a massive rework. I loved my Holy paladin in Legion it was the most fun I'd had in a long time then... this expansion slowed it down to hell and took all the fun out of it. I got to 120 got some gear and ended up rerolling. I miss Legion Holy so many little fun bits.

[roboscorcher]

I believe Holy paladins should be more like melee Discipline priests. They should be healing directly, but a substantial amount of healing should be done through the damage the paladin inflicts to the enemy. Or even damage done to him. Make that plate armour mean something! And they certainly should gain more mobility. Their mastery is all about range, but they probably are the least mobile healer in the game.

Maybe they could get Holy power like Ret paladins from their dps abilities, but their Holy power spenders would be heals instead?

I agree with the disc sentiment. As for holy power...we actually had that before. I believe Cata and MoP had us building Holy Power with FoL and HL, then dumping it via Word of Glory.

Ideally, I'd like a playstyle similar to AA Uther in HotS. I don't mind the distance mechanics, but if we're going to be up front, lets have some incentive to hit the boss. Maybe mana returns, or the heal/shields offered by disc.

[Melusine]

As a holy paladin, myself, it was done well in Legion. BFA stripped out a lot of the better parts of it.

[Vangorium]

Holy is nowhere near as fun as Wrath. I had a massive break from WoW so apologies if there are better Holy positions between Wrath and BfA but I feel the spike heal is a little lacklustre and starting to feel that AoE healing is being prioritised (maybe I'm playing wrong though.. that's a possibility)

[ID811717]

I don't even think Holy is great in 5 mans. It's playable, certainly. You can get through M+ dungeons without major problems most of the time. On the other hand, I do think that I need to work much harder than other healers do in order to compete. Bosses with sustained AoE damage can be a major headache, bosses that require constant movement are also dangerous and to be at your most effective you want your group stacked on you.

Thankfully, Temple is the only 5-man with bosses that have sustained AoE damage (to the extent that makes healing harder). As for the constant movement, that sounds wrong. If you have to move 100% time, the only difficulty is that you cannot cast HL and FoL, but you can replace these spells with LotM.

[Tomana]

Scrap the paladin mastery and redesign it, imo. Nothing else is urgent.

- - - Updated - - -

It's my impression that holy is good in five mans, but lacking in raids, and they can't easily fix the latter without making them too strong in M+.

Monk, drood and disco are better than holy. Only Shamans and Holy priests are doing worse.
But hey, since Blizzard hates paladins since vanilla, it could be a whole lot worse.

[LedZeppelin]

its weird because the fol spam in tbc and holy light spam in wotlk was funner to me than what we have now. could be because im a simple minded idiot but who knows.

[Vebi]

Hey there

While i agree the Holy Paladin could benefit from some rework, and he was much better to play in legion i must say that holy paladin is still my main healer and i love him in case of numbers i can heal in short time.

So, when they doing an rework i want that gameplay to stay, - i dont know.... they should only improve not make it any different.

When you look at the Numbers, if your playing good, u can compete with other healers... in an perfect situation who will never happen ... its different yes.

[Waldor666]

I'm going to say it. I really enjoyed holy in WOD. I miss Light of Dawn being a full AOE spell rather than the cone it is now.

[Akutare]

Dear God, yes. I hate everything about Holy currently, and yet, I have always been a holy paladin. I mean, it just is so boring and shallow. I never feel like there's anything I can do to react in different situations besides spam more single cast heals. They killed my set up from Legion, which was also frustrating.

I think later Cataclysm was actually probably my favorite version of Holy, but Pandaria was fine. Legion wasn't my favorite, but since we got nothing from our artifact to carry over we just feel completely gutted at the moment.

[Sliske]

Legion Hpala was nearly perfect, as was dragon soul hpala and HFC hpala.

The only thing i'd of changed about those at their times was the mastery. Holy paladin mastery (like most mastery) is fucking boring. After playing a lot of league and so on, i've started comparing champion innate traits with mastery and it makes me wonder why Blizzard is so uncreative with them. Like take the trait of, for instance, Shaco in league. That trait lets him have double damage while attacking from behind, with a short cooldown, modified by his cooldown reduction.

Now compare that to hpala mastery.

Its just. so. boring. Its basically intellect but with a clunky mechanic attached to it.

Also, azerite traits. SO many cool things they could do. Lets look at a current azerite trait: radiant incandescence - your holy shock now leaves a dot / hot on enemies / allies.

Now one i made up 5 seconds ago: Light of dawn now also causes your beacon targets to cast light of dawn. Thats just fun, doesn't even have to be the strongest trait, its simply fun. Fun to use and looks cool.

How about another one? Casting Avenging Wrath makes your two nearest allies your squires for 20 seconds, increasing their damage and healing by X%.

THATS COOL. Getting a slightly better flash of light on beacon targets is not.

[Rustykeyboard]

Legion Hpala was nearly perfect, as was dragon soul hpala and HFC hpala.

The only thing i'd of changed about those at their times was the mastery. Holy paladin mastery (like most mastery) is fucking boring. After playing a lot of league and so on, i've started comparing champion innate traits with mastery and it makes me wonder why Blizzard is so uncreative with them. Like take the trait of, for instance, Shaco in league. That trait lets him have double damage while attacking from behind, with a short cooldown, modified by his cooldown reduction.

Now compare that to hpala mastery.

Its just. so. boring. Its basically intellect but with a clunky mechanic attached to it.

Also, azerite traits. SO many cool things they could do. Lets look at a current azerite trait: radiant incandescence - your holy shock now leaves a dot / hot on enemies / allies.

Now one i made up 5 seconds ago: Light of dawn now also causes your beacon targets to cast light of dawn. Thats just fun, doesn't even have to be the strongest trait, its simply fun. Fun to use and looks cool.

How about another one? Casting Avenging Wrath makes your two nearest allies your squires for 20 seconds, increasing their damage and healing by X%.

THATS COOL. Getting a slightly better flash of light on beacon targets is not.

yeah its really cool spells u wrote. but blizz doesnt have enough employees to change it since everyone are working at riot:/

[Volitar]

Holy Pally died to me the day it became a half melee hybrid with an annoying mastery. Anything to change it back to a caster would be lovely.

WOD Hpally I miss u boo.

[StrawberryZebra]

Holy Pally died to me the day it became a half melee hybrid with an annoying mastery. Anything to change it back to a caster would be lovely.

I think the idea of the Paladin as a melee healer is sound. Where Blizzard have failed here is by taking half-measures. It's an idea they needed to either go all-in on or just not bother with.

Personally, I'd like them to go all-in with it. It's a niche that hasn't really been explored at all in WoW. I realise not everyone would agree with that, but it's something I'd quite enjoy.

[Sparda Strife]

Personally, I'd like them to go all-in with it. It's a niche that hasn't really been explored at all in WoW. I realise not everyone would agree with that, but it's something I'd quite enjoy.

I agree with that, and they dont need to make Holy as a carbon copy of Disc to be a melee healer as a lot of people are suggesting.

I think that they should make Holy as an aggresive healer, but instead of healing by doing damage, using Crusader Strike, Judgment or consecration should empower the casting of the healing spells, and that doesn´t need a rework of the spec, there were traits in legion that worked that way, and we still retain talents like that.

[Demsi]

I do wish Blizzard would atleast aknowledge that Holy is in a bad shape, but as of the moment everyone seems to be focused on shadow priests and Ele shammys.

[Alanar]

I believe Holy paladins should be more like melee Discipline priests. They should be healing directly, but a substantial amount of healing should be done through the damage the paladin inflicts to the enemy. Or even damage done to him. Make that plate armour mean something! And they certainly should gain more mobility. Their mastery is all about range, but they probably are the least mobile healer in the game.

Maybe they could get Holy power like Ret paladins from their dps abilities, but their Holy power spenders would be heals instead?

No, this would make disc less unique and besides they also removed that element with monks so why would a pally be any different.
A rework isn't needed imo, but tuning is slightly off and kinda slow, fix this and I think many will be happy.

Ret on the other hand.. is just boring atm, feels like we are missing a spell.. uch exorcism would be great to have back. Something to fill in that 1 empty hole we have with the downtime.