House votes to add $5 bil for wall!

[Ivanstone]

I can now imagine construction companies sending out pickup trucks to get labourers to build the wall. I wonder what the legal status of those labourers are?!?!!?

[Dontrike]

We made more than 5 billion when we renegotiated NAFTA

I know almost nothing of what the changes to NAFTA brought to the country, but even I know what you said here is fucking stupid.

[Pterodactylus]

Yea, as soon as Trump will release his tax returns.

CONNED!
Don't you feel like a dummy now Trump voter? Or is this one of those cases where you're too dumb to know you're dumb?

Don't forget that healthcare plan that will cover more people, for less, with better healthcare outcomes!

[draynay]

Border security is the number one issue that voters are concerned about according to some polls.

If democrats want to win in 2020 they'd better pay attention to border security.

And yet the Republicans campaigned on it and still got destroyed, because nobody is buying the solution they're selling.

[Skroe]

Border security is the number one issue that voters are concerned about according to some polls.

If democrats want to win in 2020 they'd better pay attention to border security.

59% percent of Americans are against the wall.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-new...ding-the-wall/




Do we need to get this tattooed to your hand so you don't forget Hubcap?

And it's also not a priority for Americans.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...?noredirect=on

[Pterodactylus]

Border security is the number one issue that voters are concerned about according to some polls.

If democrats want to win in 2020 they'd better pay attention to border security.

But the wall is only something knuckle draggers believe will provide actual border security. There are other ways in increase border security, but border security is "tight" as Trump said via twitter:

“With so much talk about the Wall, people are losing sight of the great job being done on our Southern Border by Border Patrol, ICE and our great Military. Remember the Caravans? Well, they didn’t get through and none are forming or on their way. Border is tight. Fake News silent!”

Okay, if the border is tight, why the wall?

[Beazy]

Wouldnt it be cheaper to build a faux Maginot Line along the border?

That would be 100X safer than a wall. No one would have the balls to run towards an AI controlled machine gun pillbox.

[Pterodactylus]

59% percent of Americans are against the wall.

Many of those against the wall of land owners on the border of Texas. There are thousands of them who don't want to give their land to the federal government for some bullshit wall, and that means thousands of lawsuits. The wall was always a fantasy aimed at the lowest of low of the base to play off their racism and xenophobia.

[cubby]

https://www.wtrf.com/news/house-vote...all/1669680590

The Republican-led House has voted to add $5 billion for a border wall with Mexico to a bill preventing a partial federal shutdown this weekend.

Thursday's House vote was a party line 221-179.

Good. Now they just need to have the balls to pass the omnibus bill with it, and get the Senate to play ball so we can put this to rest! This may be the last chance the Right has to accomplish anything for some time. Even if we assume Trump gets reelected in 2020 I see no signs that reds will hold majority in Senate. This will only get worse with a divided legislative body, and a lame duck session.

The border wall is dead. The "right" hasn't accomplished anything good yet.

Wasn't Mexico supposed to pay for it anyway?

2019 is going to be a VERY bad year for you.

[zorkuus]

But the wall is only something knuckle draggers believe will provide actual border security. There are other ways in increase border security, but border security is "tight" as Trump said via twitter:



Okay, if the border is tight, why the wall?

"We want better border security" doesn't quite have that populism angle the dumb masses yearn for. Got to keep it simple for the low IQ Trump voter. Also it's easier for Trump himself to remember. It's not about practicality or realism, but populism. Promise the sky... no need to actually deliver, idiots will still eat it up.

[Powerogue]

That doesn't look very much like Mexico paying for it. It sounds like poor unsuspecting Trump voters paying for it.

[Fugus]

Border security is the number one issue that voters are concerned about according to some polls.

If democrats want to win in 2020 they'd better pay attention to border security.

So.....

1) Legalize weed and have it taxed and regulated which will kill that entire segment of the cartels and reduce that traffic here and....

2) Start passing and enforcing laws and regulations that punish those hiring illegal labor. Make where the companies themselves aren't charged but the managers, CEOs and executives and anyone of them who knew or made sure they couldn't know with them personally taking jail time and fines will be paid directly by them and out of shareholder dividends so that the company itself can't claim a loss as an excuse to raise prices and only those who personally allow it are punished. Have this include farmers as well. This will kill the demand for illegal labor in the US which they come to fill which will have most of them return home when they can't find work at all or just not come to begin with.


Those 2 policies would fix boarder security far more than any wall ever could and would be astronomically cheaper and would actually make us money overall. The biggest problem is getting politicians with the balls to do the right thing even when it holds their donors accountable (or in Trumps case, himself as he also hires illegals).

[Thekri]

Wouldnt it be cheaper to build a faux Maginot Line along the border?

That would be 100X safer than a wall. No one would have the balls to run towards an AI controlled machine gun pillbox.

Maybe we could try copying something that actually worked? The Maginot line is famous for not actually accomplishing anything.

[Lothar from accounting]

How high is the wall going to have to be to stop people from flying in and overstaying their visa? Because a quick google search says this "Commercial aircraft typically fly between 31,000 and 38,000 feet". So the wall needs to be 39,000 feet high I guess!

I'm sure we could knock it down to at least half that height if we just put a dome over the whole country instead.

[Fugus]

A couple of points:
In most places in the planet, fines are not deductible expenses. I would hope this isn't another case where the US has decided to be exceptional?
You would need to prove the connection of the managers and executives with the illegal hires. Illegal workers don't leave much of a paper trail. At most you can target operational managers (so low level management) and maybe the COO, you'd otherwise need whistleblowers.

Require employers get the required paperwork on their employees to find out and if they neglect to, it puts them on the hook for hiring them.

As for whistle blowers....

Any illegal who turns themselves in, along with their employer and proof that they knew they were illegal or tried to make sure they couldn't know will get 6 months room and board and a fast track for citizenship with all expenses paid, but they must still pass the requirements. They are given a worker visa and can find employment in this time.

You put what is in the best interests of the illegal in opposition to what is in the best interests of the employers. Then when the employer fears being turned in for hiring them, they stop hiring them and when the illegal gets hired, he knows he can turn them in for a much easier time at citizenship.

You allow an illegal a path to legit citizenship as a reward for their service to this country turning in the employer abusing them and keep a bunch more out as demand for their labor dies.


As far as fines not being deductible expenses, I was more of the mind that the companies can use that loss as a justification to raise prices. When you hit the CEOs, Managers, and shareholders directly, the companies bottom line remains intact so that justification is gone and those responsible are the ones paying the money and doing the jail time. And if you catch the employer trying to reimburse them, that would be them trying to reward breaking the law which I would HOPE (Not sure) would constitute a crime on their part.

[Kujako]

Send him a copy of the Simpson's movie, maybe he'll be inspired.

Wouldn't work as soon as Trump saw that Apu was stuck in there with them.

[Rensar]

Except this time we have video clips of Trump saying it's the "Trump Shutdown".

Trump cucked himself.

Trump said he would own the shutdown IF he did not get the funding for the Wall. Nancy Pelosi stated that it was a fact that he could not get the votes in the House.

Trump got the votes in the House and now it is the Democrats in the Senate that are not going to pass the bill. Trump even mansplained that very point to Pelosi.

If there is as shutdown it will be 100% the Democrats fault. You can choose to spin it anyway you like but it is as clear as day that the Democrats are throwing a temper tantrum based solely on the fact that they hate Trump.

[Fugus]

But there is no paperwork. Will you require upper management to audit on site payroll? I mean I have no idea how the regulatory framework works on this in the US; in some countries with evolved corporate responsibility frameworks you could require this of internal control (and thus it would had up to the audit committee and the board and also involve independent members so it would be a bit harder to hide) but I somehow doubt the majority of illegal workers work directly for corporations; they are far more likely to work for SMEs or sole traders (in which case yes, you can much easier make some claims and if the illegals are found by the labour authority you can definitely fine them.

As for not allowing companies to use the loss to justify a price hike . . . how? Unless the US suddenly becomes Venezuela, you don't get to exercise such levels of price control. The fine does hit the shareholders directly. It is up to them to hold executives accountable.

There is paperwork when you hire someone, didn't matter whether I was working a quick stop or at Walmart, there was always paperwork involved with hiring.

And if they are working under the table, the employer is already committing a crime that way too.

As for subcontractors and temp agencies, just start mandating that the employer get access to the full paperwork of any employee they send to audit personally.


And I wasn't saying to use price controls, I was saying to remove the justification for potentially raising their prices to pay for fines as the fines aren't paid by the company directly anymore, but out of shareholder dividends and from the managers directly.

If your company is caught hiring illegals, the manager who hired them and those above him who knew about it or tried to make sure they couldn't know are liable as well all the way up the chain if reasonable and the shareholders are liable as well.

[Crispin]

Trump said he would own the shutdown IF he did not get the funding for the Wall. Nancy Pelosi stated that it was a fact that he could not get the votes in the House.

Trump got the votes in the House and now it is the Democrats in the Senate that are not going to pass the bill. Trump even mansplained that very point to Pelosi.

If there is as shutdown it will be 100% the Democrats fault. You can choose to spin it anyway you like but it is as clear as day that the Democrats are throwing a temper tantrum based solely on the fact that they hate Trump.

Ironic considering the spin you did in the same post

[Fugus]

When you hire illegals, there is no paperwork. They are illegals. What paperwork would you have? Maybe a black book for payroll but that's it.

Exactly, if they are doing that, they are automatically liable for the charges the second they are caught. And if you look at post #60, I explained how to make it in the illegals best interest to turn them in for doing it.