WoD or BfA past 4 months?

[Craaazyyy]

Anyone saying BFA is worse than WOD is just a whiny edgelord (ie; idiot). There is no way anyone can make any objective argument that WoD was better in any capacity, except maybe Raiding. I have a ton of issues with BFA, but its mostly a streamlined version of Legion with better storytelling. In other words, even with all its flaws, its still 5x better than WoD even by the worst metrics.

yeah and the reason is? again "more content"?

[Tradu]

Anyone saying BFA is worse than WOD is just a whiny edgelord (ie; idiot). There is no way anyone can make any objective argument that WoD was better in any capacity, except maybe Raiding. I have a ton of issues with BFA, but its mostly a streamlined version of Legion with better storytelling. In other words, even with all its flaws, its still 5x better than WoD even by the worst metrics.

Class design. The most important metric for me along with raids. "More content" doesn't immediately make an expansion better, especially when that "more content" is the same type of content we've had in the past.

[Zka]

BfA disc is probably 100x worse than it was in Wrath

Seriously? I've played disc in LK. In the first raid tier it was literally unviable. (that was the last tier I've ever played holy) Then later disc got fixed and then it was about alternating pws and something-else ad nauseum. It was the dawn of the PWS spam era which has been despised ever since.
Great, universally praised class design indeed.

[Deleted]

It's funny you mention WoD "better class design" when all it was, was extremly pruned MoP classes...

[Craaazyyy]

Seriously? I've played disc in LK. In the first raid tier it was literally unviable. (that was the last tier I've ever played holy) Then later disc got fixed and then it was about alternating pws and something-else ad nauseum. It was the dawn of the PWS spam era which has been despised ever since.

again you mentioning balance, but it has nothing with class design.. also you only mentioning raids, like its the only thing that people were doing

also as of PWS spam its pretty much the same shit now, and dont say its not.. you just spam some other ability and "using something else" in between..

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It's funny you mention WoD "better class design" when all it was, was extremly pruned MoP classes...

well thing is that they pruned more since WoD

[Tradu]

While most perks were literally useless, some of them were very important. If you happened to receive the important one first, you were much better off than people who received it late. While the perks made you stronger indeed, it was a failed design, no wonder they scrapped it.

Oh no, people being stronger than you while levelling. Truly a terrible experience. Also they could've just, you know, made them not random instead of scrapping it and giving us nothing for levelling up.

[Zka]

Anyone saying BFA is worse than WOD is just a whiny edgelord (ie; idiot). There is no way anyone can make any objective argument that WoD was better in any capacity, except maybe Raiding.

See? People DO make that argument. It was better because their spec had 2 more buttons to push or something like that. It was important to have many buttons while idling in the garrison.

[Tradu]

It's funny you mention WoD "better class design" when all it was, was extremly pruned MoP classes...

Yeah, and Legion and BfA kept that trend going, hence why WoD's class design was still better.

[Craaazyyy]

See? People DO make that argument. It was better because their spec had 2 more buttons to push or something like that. It was important to have many buttons while idling in the garrison.

you maybe were idling in the garrison, but you know, some people were raiding/pvping

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Oh no, people being stronger than you while levelling. Truly a terrible experience. Also they could've just, you know, made them not random instead of scrapping it and giving us nothing for levelling up.

but its blizzard main trend.. if something is either useless or too powerful instead of fixing it they're removing it

sometimes they do it with things that were fine for years b4 that, but then blizzard ruined them and instead of fixing them they pruned them(deep freeze is one example of that shit)

[Zka]

again you mentioning balance

??? I haven't mentioned balance at all in the section you have quoted.

[Tradu]

??? I haven't mentioned balance at all in the section you have quoted.

"Disc was literally unviable". That's balance. PW:S spam is the only class/spec design aspect you mentioned, and yeah, gz, you found a spec(which has always been problematic) where MoP didn't have the best or one of the best iterations.

[Craaazyyy]

??? I haven't mentioned balance at all in the section you have quoted.

you said that it wasnt viable..

[Zka]

you maybe were idling in the garrison, but you know, some people were raiding/pvping

I've raided in WoD. It was 1 or 2 nights per week. After that there wasn't any reason to log in on my main. Nowadays I can do m+ anytime for a chance of an upgrade or just having an enjoyable challenge. I can level alts and gear them up very quickly via several ways. I don't PVP but we still have all pvp features we had back then PLUS warmode.

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you said that it wasnt viable..

Because the class design was broken. You know, ACTUALLY broken. Not like specs today.

[Maudib]

I do not recognize the game anymore. It is no longer an MMO, no longer community based. This is by design.. blizzard wanted to offer an MMO experience to the widest audience.. including people who didn't want to actually play an MMO with other people.

The story is decent, the art is great... the gameplay? Horrible. The community? Non-existent. Replayability? LoL.

And the worst part of all this? It isn't going to get better with these devs.

The only hope for modern WoW is that Classic explodes with popularity. Then money guys will force the devs to figure out how to make modern WoW as successful and only then could we see a return to deterministic loot, less RNG, guild, community, and server identity importance.

Til then.. I'm out. BfA isn't worth my money to buy or subscribe for.

[Craaazyyy]

I've raided in WoD. It was 1 or 2 nights per week. After that there wasn't any reason to log in on my main. Nowadays I can do m+ anytime for a chance of an upgrade or just having an enjoyable challenge. I can level alts and gear them up very quickly via several ways. I don't PVP but we still have all pvp features we had back then PLUS warmode.

again wasnt any reason to log in for you, but other people had that reason

also what pvp features? class design is the most important pvp feature..

[Zka]

"Disc was literally unviable". That's balance. PW:S spam is the only class/spec design aspect you mentioned, and yeah, gz, you found a spec(which has always been problematic) where MoP didn't have the best or one of the best iterations.

Are you even reading what you reply to? I was stating that disc was unviable in the first tier of WOTLK. And no, it was not bad class balance, the spec was useless for pve in early LK.

[Craaazyyy]

I've raided in WoD. It was 1 or 2 nights per week. After that there wasn't any reason to log in on my main. Nowadays I can do m+ anytime for a chance of an upgrade or just having an enjoyable challenge. I can level alts and gear them up very quickly via several ways. I don't PVP but we still have all pvp features we had back then PLUS warmode.

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Because the class design was broken. You know, ACTUALLY broken. Not like specs today.

no it wasnt.. it was pretty much the same later on, but was viable and even fucking good

didnt i tell you that i was a disc main in wrath? it was much more enjoyable to play than whatever they have now.. and again you're completely ignoring other parts of the game.. saying that you didnt do this or that doesnt matter.. you know i dont care about so many things in the game, but im not going to sit here and say that because of that all those things dont fucking matter

[Keihndeth]

Class design. The most important metric for me along with raids. "More content" doesn't immediately make an expansion better, especially when that "more content" is the same type of content we've had in the past.

That's a fair point to make. Class Design (too streamlined and uninteresting) and Progression Systems (Azerite Armor, Necklace, AFKfronts) are by far BFAs two worst areas. If you fix those, you fix BFA to a large degree. You can't say that about WoD.

With that said, if all you are playing WoW for is Raids and Class design, you're playing the wrong game. Final Fantasy is that way -->
FF has was better endgame and class design and has for years now. I don't even like Japanese anime-type games. I play ESO on the side.

[Craaazyyy]

Are you even reading what you reply to? I was stating that disc was unviable in the first tier of WOTLK. And no, it was not bad class balance, the spec was useless for pve in early LK.

class being useless is a balancing issue

[Tradu]

Are you even reading what you reply to? I was stating that disc was unviable in the first tier of WOTLK. And no, it was not bad class balance, the spec was originally useless for pve.

Yeah, so you were playing a spec that was intended to be the PvP spec, before they decided to make every spec work in every part of the game(sort of), in PvE. Wrath class design was all over the place, so I'm not going to compare it to BfA at all, because it's a completely different era of WoW. The "modern" way of doing class/spec design didn't really start until Cata and MoP.