Remove Pathfinder for Flying

[Levaustian]

Guess you spent 2007 to 2014 in deep hate. Man, that must've sucked.

BC and Wotlk were not so terrible with flying (BC especially, that gold sink + slow base flight was enough of a block that it didn't really matter).

Cata was pretty awful leveling-wise (just shuttling from one hub in a disconnected zone to another, try travelling around them with no flight). I barely went back to any of the zones except hyjal for molten front.

MoP's pros (beautiful zones and raids, flightless Isle of Thunder + Timeless Isle) cancelled out its cons.

[Dhrizzle]

Actually didn't look like a fool at all they recovered most of the cata after stuff became easier they didn't recover wod's losses. I should have said the first permanent sub loss. They had a chance to with legion there was a big spike right at the start but they dragged when they were giving back flight and people left again.

No they didn't, Cata declined steadily until MoP when it jumped back to 10 million before rapidly losing their gains, then a little wobble and drop before jumping up to 10 million again then anotherbrapid drop that slowed and then we stopped getting numbers. Ignoring the MoP and WoD jumps WoW has lost a fairly consistent 100k subs per month since the end of WotLK.

[Altrec]

Getting camped endless was actually a big part of the WPVP and the people who played it. It was always a potential problem if someone ganked a lowbie, and then that lowbie would log on their main and teach them a lesson. Untill their friends wouls show, and then your friends would show up and next thing you know you're fighting a raid against your raid in WPVP. WIth flying that doesn't happen because; "I didn't get camped endlessly and it had nothing to do with avoiding the fight."

Flying was always tiered in one aspect or another. Be it with pathfinder, content locked, or a huge gold cost. Sure you could get basic flying in BC, but it was actually faster traveling on the ground at 100% speed then in the air at 60% speed. What flying allowed was someone to drop in on someone fighting 5 or 6 mobs or a tough rare spawn. Sorry flying did kill WPVP and thus shouldn't even be allowed with Warmode.

As for the pathfinder, it isn't that hard to get and if you can't be bothered then you don't really want to play the game. If it's important to you, then you'd already have part one complete and be ready to knock out part 2 within the first week it's available.

We will have to agree to disagree because our experiences were very different. For example even with flying "It was always a potential problem if someone ganked a lowbie, and then that lowbie would log on their main and teach them a lesson. Untill their friends wouls show, and then your friends would show up and next thing you know you're fighting a raid against your raid in WPVP" happened many times for me. Sure, most of the time it was smaller fights of less than 10 people but big fights did in fact break out from time to time as well.

I'm willing to concede that flying didn't help wpvp, but it wasn't at the top of the list of things that made wpvp less and less of a thing. Attitudes(faction pride/population differences etc), arena, separation of pvp and pve gear by adding pvp stats, different design choices, and phasing are just some of the things that were a bigger problem than flying for wpvp. Put them all together and wpvp suffered and will continue to suffer. Flying's biggest sin against wpvp was changing the dynamic of how people engaged each other, and with the addition of all of the other features and conveniences I mentioned above it complicated things and made it easier for people to not bother at all.

[tehdef]

I don't want flying back until after the expansion is over.

The whistle and improved flight paths are great. I like it. I enjoy the game, and I don't mind running around.

[Levaustian]

I don't want flying back until after the expansion is over.

The whistle and improved flight paths are great. I like it. I enjoy the game, and I don't mind running around.

I think this is the best idea.

[shise]

[QUOTE=Xath;50677342]So make it not work in war mode everyone else can just have self control and use ground mounts. Literally the only excuse for it not being in game was solved when they added war mode. Also it didn't kill world pvp there was a ton of world pvp up until blizz started phasing servers together even in wrath there were still bounty lists and stuff.

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Nope, shouldn't need any rewards if you want to pvp it shouldn't even have the increase it does now if it didn't it would be much closer to 50/50.

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I think you should take a long walk off a short pier there should be zero cost if you insist on having pathfinder and it should unlock immediately upon finishing part one otherwise a nominal fee like 5k max would suffice. A lot of people didn't run 10 alts in legion and make 100k a month hell I know people who have never had over 50k gold.

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To be honest, 5k gold suggestion is absurd. People who do not have 50k are either new players or don´t bother trying.

A quick example. You make 1,5K gold per run of old raids. An old raid might take an average 30 minutes. Run 5 a week and you make around 7K gold in 2 hours and a half.
Daily quests, quests, selling greens or materials etc... it is extremely easy to produce nearly 10K gold from those things that would take 40% of your normal gaming time tops..

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God no lets not lock flying behind a giant gold barrier.... At that point why not also add that you need to finish the first raid on heroic , get the gladiator saddle for the season, and level at least 50% of the Battle pets for that expansion to level 25....

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If it's a big and important part of the game, and all everyone wants to do is skip it dose that mean the developers failed miserably?

Okay, let´s not say half a million...100K gold is reasonable for the most part. But you got the point.

[MasterOfNone]

I.. don't think you get what a poll is.

It's not a vote of all people everywhere with an opinion on the issue. A temporarily seen thread, on a forum, on a fansite, naturally isn't the same as a vote on the issue, provided by Blizzard, to everyone logging in. But that's not something was ever going to happen. Same way polls for elections can't poll the entire country.

Polls are an indicator. A signal. The main signal, because there will never be an official poll.

And I'm not even arguing the value of these polls as proof the majority wanted it, as they show. Or that the polls showed the opinion of everyone. I'm using those polls to show that, during MoP times, there indeed were a lot of people that wanted flight to go away. Which is something that is often forgotten and denied.

I'm in favor of flying. But I am not in favor of rewriting history to say that almost no one wanted it removed. I'm angry that that was the case too, but anger should not make us blind and disingenuous.

you absolutely did. thats why you were called out. someone makes a point and you say "no, look at the polls!" then we say "hey the polls arent remotely relevant or accurate" and then you say " yeah and im not arguing the value of the polls". i know exactly how polls work and how trolls use them to sway their point. you cannot makes decisions or facts based on such small sample data. everyone SHOULD know that.

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Hey, 3k samples has statistical relevance. The reasons for it not being relevant are different than that.

I know some people that would get their pants wet if they had 3k samples to work with.

for sure, but the fact remains that its too small of a sample size to draw any conclusion.

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A list that didn't really add up to anything, other than finding out you don't care about any of the other WQ rewards but rep.

Most people in the poll, he atleast has some polls to back up his statement unlike others who say "omg omg nobody wanted flying to go away".


Because it hurts the game? You're simply skipping content.
It would be completely different if flying had disadvantages, enemies, any kind of risk but thats not flying in WoW.



It shows a trend that Blizzard wants people to consume the content in the way they intended, such as doing solo WQ's actually solo (or atleast making an effort to from a group) or running around on ground mounts when the content is relevant, yes WQ's are still relevant content because of AP rewards and that is shown by scaling tech used on max level mobs. Whether you like these or not is irrelevant and while it increases playtime its definitely not the sole reason the changes have been made. If playtime increase was the only thing they cared about there would be a lot more way to do so, as you have been told.

so even if its bad info, its ok? what is this nonsense lo?. you dont make large design decisions predicated on the bitching of a few thousand when the game has subs in the MILLIONS......

[Arakakao]

How about Pathfinder part 1 unlocking flying in the zone and then, on each patch, having another part that unlocks flying in the new zones? Once you have done all the storylines and explored all the zones there's no point having to go on foot.

"But muh wold peeveepee!" Wolrd PvP stoped being relevant once BGs were introduced. For most people, they just want to do their quests. Being attacked just mean they'll run, and at the first sign of being ganked, disconnect.

"The world feels empty!" When you see a lot of people killing quest mobs it doesn't feel empty. And if more people leave the game, it will feel emptier.

[tacoloco]

Funny how "The no Fly crowd was huge back then", but when threads asking for flight back are CONSTANTLY popping up, there's always someone claiming it's just a "vocal minority".

The no fly crowd has always been a vocal minority.

I'm in the fly group, but I'm fine with pathfinder. I feel like I've earned flying after completing the steps.

[Levaustian]

How about Pathfinder part 1 unlocking flying in the zone and then, on each patch, having another part that unlocks flying in the new zones? Once you have done all the storylines and explored all the zones there's no point having to go on foot.

"But muh wold peeveepee!" Wolrd PvP stoped being relevant once BGs were introduced. For most people, they just want to do their quests. Being attacked just mean they'll run, and at the first sign of being ganked, disconnect.

"The world feels empty!" When you see a lot of people killing quest mobs it doesn't feel empty. And if more people leave the game, it will feel emptier.

I beg to differ, especially with the faction invasions and the weekly PvP quests, World PvP has been an absolute blast.

[Arakakao]

I beg to differ, especially with the faction invasions and the weekly PvP quests, World PvP has been an absolute blast.

And flying would not invalidate them since you can fly while doing them. Also, you do realize people can turn off war mode, making world PvP inexistent, right?

[RuneDK]

Pathfinder is fine....the real issue is they take forever to get the "parts" released. At this point, there's no reason not to have pathfinder part 2 out yet.

[Zorachus]

Agreed with OP. Pathfinder is a pain the ass, and disrespectful to the paying customer.

I played Legion the entire 2 year run, 5 nights a week, had 4 Level 110s all i970+ geared. And still never got flying in Legion, becauseI'm principal I was turned off by all the bullshit requirements to unlock flying and I hated the suramar questline. No way was I going to force myself to run Suramar content after I was already 110 and geared. Just couldn't do it, it looked painfully boring AF.

Bring back the old way, of after like the .1 patch make it $10,000 gold or whatever.

the biggest kick in the nuts is previous expansions still force you to get pathfinder to unlock flying. So if you never did the Pathfinder in WoD you still can't fly there two expansions later. Same with Legion, it's an outdated old expansion, but if you don't have flying in Legion you should just be able to buy it at this point because it's outdated old content but you still need to get pathfinder in Legion to fly there, which is fucking bullshit.

[Caerule]

you absolutely did. thats why you were called out. someone makes a point and you say "no, look at the polls!" then we say "hey the polls arent remotely relevant or accurate" and then you say " yeah and im not arguing the value of the polls". i know exactly how polls work and how trolls use them to sway their point. you cannot makes decisions or facts based on such small sample data. everyone SHOULD know that.

Did you really just call me a troll for using actual data from those times, to support an argument about them? I said in the very post I linked those polls "Whether you believe polls or not, we can at least agree that they are an indicator Blizzard could have taken note of". I didn't say that after someone argued against polls. Your argument came later. This is the sequence of events:

1. People claim they do not remember there actually being a movement or call to remove flying. That this was never something people were vocal about, or told Blizzard they wanted. That no one wanted this.

2. I provide concrete evidence that, on this very site, there were actually a very large number, in favor of it.

3. You misconstrue my words and attack my character, because polls were used.

I never argued that we should accept the conclusions of these polls that most people wanted flying removed. I argued that:
A. Nobody wanting it is inaccurate. Thousands of people polled is still thousands of people with those opinions, right here on these forums.
B. Things like this may well have served as signals to Blizzard. You may not value polls, but others do. You yourself acknowledge they are used to sway opinions.

If you want to argue there was never a majority, then you are not arguing with me, for I have not made that claim. I am inferring other things from those polls.

I consider the statement that there was no one arguing for the removal of flight, to be false.
I consider the statement that there were no signals to Blizzard that removing flight should be done, to be false.

I have provided data to back that up. If you wish to argue those statements to be true, then I consider the burden of proof to be on you now. If you have evidence to reveal the actual number of people arguing for the removal of flight to have been negligible, then I will be happy to study and discuss it further with you.

If not, then this discussion is a distraction, and I would rather get back to the discussion of Pathfinder in the modern day.

[Zorachus]

WoD released what 4 years ago ? Today you still need to get pathfinder in Dreanor to unlock flying there, two expansions later !!!

What. The. Fuck. ?

Same with Legion.

Old expansions should at this point just allow it to be purchased. Who the hell wants to do pathfinder in Draenor today?

[Prothynyas]

yeh i agree WOW is DEAD , thx TO MONEY ADDICTED DEVS , I WANT MY FLYING FREE !!!!

[rhorle]

Old expansions should at this point just allow it to be purchased. Who the hell wants to do pathfinder in Draenor today?

The same people that want to fly there? If the expansion is so old to be irrelevant then not being able to fly there isn't a big deal. That is why this type of argument never flies (get it HA!). That isn't to say that the requirement could be changed just that if you are arguing the irrelevance of the expansion means it should change it also is saying that the expansion is now irrelevant so flying there is also irrelevant.

You can buy the rep required for Draenor pathfinder and Winter Veil was the perfect time to farm the medallions if you didn't want to buy them. The rest of the requirements are pretty easy.

[Vargur]

flying or the lack thereof isn't the problem, with all the mount speed increases, reduced hearth, flight whistle, etc its a non issue. this game has larger core issues.

I'd definitely resub if flying took 5 mins to obtain. I just don't have the time to travel by land.

[Xath]

Doubtful, But possibly? Speaking of gold sink purchase, are you willing to shell out 1-2m for only one character to fly (Not account wide)

No because that's insane and would be limited to 5 percent of the population being able to afford it if that 5k sure that's reasonable.

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So It did fall during Cats confirmed?

Happy New Years!

It didn't permanently fall it did in WoD.

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So It did fall during Cats confirmed?

Happy New Years!

It didn't permanently fall it did in WoD.

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I think this is the best idea.

I have a better idea you take flyers off your bar since they look stupid on the ground anyway and the rest of is get to fly today with it disabled in warmode.

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[QUOTE=shise;50679378]

So make it not work in war mode everyone else can just have self control and use ground mounts. Literally the only excuse for it not being in game was solved when they added war mode. Also it didn't kill world pvp there was a ton of world pvp up until blizz started phasing servers together even in wrath there were still bounty lists and stuff.

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Nope, shouldn't need any rewards if you want to pvp it shouldn't even have the increase it does now if it didn't it would be much closer to 50/50.

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I think you should take a long walk off a short pier there should be zero cost if you insist on having pathfinder and it should unlock immediately upon finishing part one otherwise a nominal fee like 5k max would suffice. A lot of people didn't run 10 alts in legion and make 100k a month hell I know people who have never had over 50k gold.

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To be honest, 5k gold suggestion is absurd. People who do not have 50k are either new players or don´t bother trying.

A quick example. You make 1,5K gold per run of old raids. An old raid might take an average 30 minutes. Run 5 a week and you make around 7K gold in 2 hours and a half.
Daily quests, quests, selling greens or materials etc... it is extremely easy to produce nearly 10K gold from those things that would take 40% of your normal gaming time tops..

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Okay, let´s not say half a million...100K gold is reasonable for the most part. But you got the point.

100k isn't reasonable in the slightest rofl.

[clevin]

I'm in the camp that hates flying, and wishes there were less fp's per zone. Makes the world way more immersive and huge. To the people who keep saying "you don't like flying, don't fly", it is an mmo. If everyone is flying up in the air, you don't have a sense that there is anyone there at all. I hated the end of legion and WoD when flying was added back in.

So:

1) Who the fuck says we should all be forced to play how you like to play? Bit arrogant, aren't you? "I don't like flight so instead of me choosing not to fly, I don't want anyone to be able to fly!" Little up yourself, isn't that?

2) it was an MMO for 7 years and millions kept playing so your "it's an MMO" point is shot down right there.

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I beg to differ, especially with the faction invasions and the weekly PvP quests, World PvP has been an absolute blast.

Oh here's another reason that blindly assumes we're all like you. Hint: not everyone PVPs. Why should people with warmode off be restricted from flying?

Honestly, there isn't any good reason to turn off flight at max level. ALL of them that I've every seen have holes like this ("but muh PVP" ignores non-PVP servers/warmode off, etc) or they're utterly subjective "("I hate flying!") which isn't an argument at all.