14-year-old charged with murder in deadly crash

[Zantos]

Actually, they did. They stole a car, they egged a moving car, they ran, and they killed someone. We don't know the guy caused them to fear for their life seeing as the brandishing of a firearm is only alleged, and even if he did they are still the ones primarily at fault. I'm not the one that seems to be ignoring what happened whereas you seem hyper-focused on only one alleged event in a series of events.

Its simple elementary school logic. Cause and effect. Someone pulls a gun, you run. Its that simple. Im not ignoring anything. I am focusing on the primary cause of the death. The kids running for their lifes from a guy with a gun. Now, if he didn't have a gun and was just chasing them, then its all on them. Its to be expected someone might get angry enough to engage in reckless endangerment with their driving. But a gun being involved could cause a reasonable fear for their life.

The events leading up to it are ill-relevant. They alone wouldn't have lead to a death. The singular act that led to the death was them being chased.

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The context is he was performing attempted murder, fled from that (you could argue the guy ALLEGEDLY [we know the egging happened, we know the stolen vehicle happened] waving a gun was heat of the moment or self defense given that he was having an idiot teenager attempt to kill him), and killed someone that wasn't involved because he had no idea how to drive a car or care for anyone else in any moment during that day.

Murder is the appropriate cause given the fact that he was committing multiple felonies and as a result of that killed someone. He blew that red light after trying to kill multiple other people through "its just a prank bro" endangerment and fled the second he realized his actions had consequences... namely, that someone might want to stop him from doing so at gunpoint. Allegedly. Or you know, a cellphone in his hand that was being waved.

There was no attempt to kill the guy. Egging isn't going to kill him. It certainly doesn't allow the guy to pull a gun. If he did.

[jackofwind]

Leaving the keys out for easy access? If the kid just ended up running into a wall and killing himself the parents would probably be getting charged with neglect, endangerment of a child etc. Not too familiar with the charges

It's not negligence to leave your keys hanging up on a keyrack or something similar, and if your 14 year-old stole your keys for a random joyride and ended up killing themselves you wouldn't be charged with anything (assuming there were no previous events/reasons that would hint that you ought to hide your keys).

[Mistame]

But i do believe that the parents also deserve some amount of punishment.

No, they don't.

Likely it was without permission but I'm just saying the parents should still be liable for something.

They could be held financially responsible for damages or something. But you cannot punish the parents of a teenager who does something the parents aren't even aware of. That's just stupid.

Moral Assessment time.

No. Not relevant.

Leaving the keys out for easy access? If the kid just ended up running into a wall and killing himself the parents would probably be getting charged with neglect, endangerment of a child etc. Not too familiar with the charges

Yeah, no. That's stupid.

He was committing a felony before he even took off int eh car and murdered someone.

He should be charged with vandalism, reckless endangerment and, if the owner of the vehicle presses charges, grand theft auto. But the accident only occurred because the other guy was chasing him. This is an important factor that any rational person can see completely changes things. Also, he didn't murder anyone. Only in a legal context can this not imply malice, intent and/or premeditation.

[Vanyali]

There was no attempt to kill the guy. Egging isn't going to kill him. It certainly doesn't allow the guy to pull a gun. If he did.

Egging a moving car is willful endangerment and manslaughter. Yes, it IS attempting to kill people even if the people doing it are too stupid to realize that hey, something flying at a 45mph vehicle may cause them to jerk the wheel and crash.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So am I getting this wrong or was the kid fleeing some one with a gun and was only charged with murder because he wasn’t allowed to drive?

[Dug]

It's not negligence to leave your keys hanging up on a keyrack or something similar, and if your 14 year-old stole your keys for a random joyride and ended up killing themselves you wouldn't be charged with anything (assuming there were no previous events/reasons that would hint that you ought to hide your keys).

Well yeah I'm just assuming the kid has done this before or has a history of behavior like this since I don't think a 14 year old kid would just one day out of the blue decide to steal a car to do drive by eggings. But that's up to the investigators now

[Kanegasi]

Are you legally required to render aid? I'm asking honestly. Is it something you agree to when you get your license?

If you were involved in the incident, yes. The Lincoln was chasing the GMC. I’m surprised they haven’t given the Lincoln driver some version of manslaughter. The kid wouldn’t have ran that red light if he wasn’t being chased by someone with anger problems over a couple of eggs. This is nothing more than a road rage event with an innocent bystander.

By all means, throw the book at the kid, but the Lincoln driver needs more that just a “failure to aid” charge.

[Steve French]

By that logic you can still say it’s the kid’s fault because he egged his car, and thus the guy got pissed off and chased him.

People are missing the point, whether the gun guy "chased" or followed the kid is irrelevant. He got attacked(egged, but probably had no idea what was happening) while sitting in his car, showed that he was ready to defend himself(pulled his gun) at which point they ran and he followed them. There is no evidence he broke any laws or rules. He has every right to produce a weapon to defend himself if hes under attack, he has every right to follow another vehicle as long as he obeys traffic laws. He did nothing wrong.

[Zantos]

Egging a moving car is willful endangerment and manslaughter. Yes, it IS attempting to kill people even if the people doing it are too stupid to realize that hey, something flying at a 45mph vehicle may cause them to jerk the wheel and crash.

It will depend heavily on where the egg landed and where they where doing this. As well as if the vehicles themselves where moving or just his vehicle. An egg itself isn't going to murder someone. No one looks at egging and thinks "this might kill someone". As you said, if something did happen in that case, it would be manslaughter at best.

[The Stormbringer]

People are missing the point, whether the gun guy "chased" or followed the kid is irrelevant. He got attacked(egged, but probably had no idea what was happening) while sitting in his car, showed that he was ready to defend himself(pulled his gun) at which point they ran and he followed them. There is no evidence he broke any laws or rules. He has every right to produce a weapon to defend himself if hes under attack, he has every right to follow another vehicle as long as he obeys traffic laws. He did nothing wrong.

Your car getting hit with some eggs is not 'an attack', and certainly doesn't justify such severe escalation as pulling a gun. He could have just as easily taken a picture of the license plate of the vehicle that did it and hired a private investigator or reported it to the authorities. Seeing someone pulling a gun and chasing after you in their car is bound to make anyone panic.

Yes, the kids were fucking idiots. Yes, it's their fault that the situation began in the first place, but he was showing disproportionate response to the threat at hand, and they likely only ran the red light trying to get away from him and his deadly, lethal, life-ending weapon that he was brandishing at them.

They deserve to be put away in juvie for a long time, but he also a major contributor to why things went wrong. To top it off, he then ran away when someone got hurt, rather than reporting it (which is against the law).

[Zantos]

So am I getting this wrong or was the kid fleeing some one with a gun and was only charged with murder because he wasn’t allowed to drive?

Basically yes. The law says in Texas that since he was committing a felony when the death occurred, its murder. One of the flaws of the legal system.

[Daedius]

Murder is with intent. Thus was recklessness causing manslaughter.

[Altrec]

Its simple elementary school logic. Cause and effect. Someone pulls a gun, you run. Its that simple. Im not ignoring anything. I am focusing on the primary cause of the death. The kids running for their lifes from a guy with a gun. Now, if he didn't have a gun and was just chasing them, then its all on them. Its to be expected someone might get angry enough to engage in reckless endangerment with their driving. But a gun being involved could cause a reasonable fear for their life.

The events leading up to it are ill-relevant. They alone wouldn't have lead to a death. The singular act that led to the death was them being chased.

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You talk about cause and effect but ignore what caused this all to start? Gun or not they are the originating cause period.

There was no attempt to kill the guy. Egging isn't going to kill him. It certainly doesn't allow the guy to pull a gun. If he did.

Egging a moving car has already been established as a potentially lethal act. So one could in fact see it as an attempt to kill or at the very least endanger another person.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Basically yes. The law says in Texas that since he was committing a felony when the death occurred, its murder. One of the flaws of the legal system.

I have no idea how any one could justify sentencing like this.

[Nitros14]

Murder is with intent. Thus was recklessness causing manslaughter.

Apparently if you're committing a felony (like driving without a license) and kill someone during it in Texas it's automatically murder. Tough on crime and all that.

[Steve French]

Your car getting hit with some eggs is not 'an attack', and certainly doesn't justify such severe escalation as pulling a gun. He could have just as easily taken a picture of the license plate of the vehicle that did it and hired a private investigator or reported it to the authorities. Seeing someone pulling a gun and chasing after you in their car is bound to make anyone panic.

Yes, the kids were fucking idiots. Yes, it's their fault that the situation began in the first place, but he was showing disproportionate response to the threat at hand, and they likely only ran the red light trying to get away from him and his deadly, lethal, life-ending weapon that he was brandishing at them.

He's in his vehicle driving down the road when a vehicle pulls up beside him and a bunch of loud bangs are heard hitting his car. Do you have any proof that he knows it was eggs and not rocks? Or that it was just one or two eggs thrown at his vehicle? Or even that it was a kid doing it? How bout if you're driving and someone throws a bunch of eggs all over the windshield of your car and you cant see anything and wreck? Is it still just a prank bro!?

Driving down the road and having a bunch of golf ball sized heavy objects being thrown at your car is absolutely an attack, and he absolutely had every right to protect himself. You make it sound like the kid was just gonna nonchalantly drive off like he didn't just attack someones car with a bunch of eggs, of course he was gonna speed off and run whether the guy had a gun or not.

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Apparently if you're committing a felony (like driving without a license) and kill someone during it in Texas it's automatically murder. Tough on crime and all that.

Those poor criminals, I mean they're only committing felonies and killing people, why cant we just give em a break. Right?

[Orange Joe]

Don't ever change MMO Champ......

I love how

That man allegedly brandished a semi-automatic handgun during the chase, deputies said.

=

For sure had a gun and pointed it at the kid.


I mean I'm sure a kid would never lie to get himself out of trouble, right?

[Altrec]

So am I getting this wrong or was the kid fleeing some one with a gun and was only charged with murder because he wasn’t allowed to drive?

You are getting this wrong. He is being charged with murder because he stole a car, illegally drove it, egged moving cars endangering peoples lives, and running from someone who may or may not have had a gun resulting in someone's death.

[Mistame]

Not exactly. The accident occurred because the child made the decision to pull a prank.

That's pretty shoddy logic, unless you can demonstrate that the accident would have occurred even if the guy had not been chasing him.

[Nitros14]

Those poor criminals, I mean they're only committing felonies and killing people, why cant we just give em a break. Right?

I mean by all means charge them with the crimes they're committing. But I don't agree with charging people with murder when they didn't intend to kill someone, even if they are criminals.