Anthem: Bioware's next Mass Effect-like IP

[kaelleria]

Long term problem with SWTOR, it was a bad MMO.

Don't get me wrong I did love it (mainly due to being a fanboi).

But it had no where near the fluid gameplay WoW has. The gameplay was utter shit. The engine was utter shit (the engine was the killer imo).

Levelling was great, fully voiced and choices on what you say, which made minor impacts, but nothing that made a difference. All very cool.

When you got to end game, all the cracks showed, which you already knew were coming from the clunky gameplay during levelling. Combat couldn't handle more than 10 players.

The 5 mans were long and boring, raids were easy and performance issues plus clunky gameplay didn't help. No addons didn't help either, I'm not talking about addons that make the game easier, just QoL addons that make the UI look better. I would hate WoW if I was forced to play the bog standard UI, presentation matters. I could go on forever, as I wanted SWTOR to succeed so bad, and I continued playing for longer than I would have if it wasn't Star Wars (and I still go back to it from time to time, solely because it's Star Wars).

Anyway on topic, I don't get the hype on Anthem. Played the Alpha, well it was a demo, it was boring, horrible controls, didn't like the look of it, nothing stood out. It's going to flop.

Definitely agree with you about SWTOR... the thing is it still made them a boatload of cash and it was pretty fun at launch. But you also need to remember how many other MMOs have fallen to WoW too.

As for Anthem, I'm assuming you played with M+KB since controllers were fine during Alpha. M+KB should be fixed with the upcoming demos.

As for hype...
It's a good looking game.
It's in a genre people like.
It's going to play to the power fantasy that Destiny 2 horribly failed with.
It should have a decent story. The writer from ME and ME2 is back.
You get to fly.

[Katchii]

Wait...what about SWTOR? It's got a kinda shitty F2P model but it's nothing outrageous >.>

I just meant how there's so little development on anything besides their precious Cartel Market. The last patch content, while fine. Was pitifully small and unimpressive.

Just using it as an example of an IP that EA has in their hands now and how little it gets worked on, aside from the "loot boxes."

- - - Updated - - -

SWTOR wasn't actually a bad game though? It had a metacritic of 85 and got a lot of good reception when it came out. It just wasn't WoW, so existing in that same time period as an MMO was hard. It also made EA boatloads of money.

It's still operating today. In fact it's F2P. It's not remotely close to being in the same category as the thing's they've shut down.

I'm skeptical they'd ever shut down BioWare. Their main studio hasn't had a bonafide flop yet and hasn't really stopped making them $$. You still need studios to create the games even with the IP.

SW:ToR still is an amazing game, for what's there, I'm simply pointing out how little development is spent on the game and how much is spent on the Cartel Market in-game store.

Anthem could be an amazing IP, just like Star Wars (not on the same level, just saying it could be good), but if it doesn't do as well as EA wants it to, it will turn into a sad shadow of what it COULD be, chugging out nothing but pitifully small content patches once a year while being absolutely inundated with in-game shop updates, new items and loot boxes.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah let's poison a storied studio with tons of IP to make a few bucks in the short term. Seems like great business sense.

I mean, they basically put Bioware on life support by making a side studio produce Andromeda which was practically guaranteed to flop with the shadow of ME:3 looming over it...

I hope Anthem is great, and if so I will for sure buy it.
But I'm giving it atleast a month to see how the end game turns out.

[Onikaroshi]

I'm sure this same was said back in the day about Bullfrog, Westwood, Maxis, Visceral and many other studios before EA killed them off.

/cry...... back when c&c games were good and not c&c4 trash or mobile games..

[Eleccybubb]

Definitely agree with you about SWTOR... the thing is it still made them a boatload of cash and it was pretty fun at launch. But you also need to remember how many other MMOs have fallen to WoW too.

As for Anthem, I'm assuming you played with M+KB since controllers were fine during Alpha. M+KB should be fixed with the upcoming demos.

As for hype...
It's a good looking game.
It's in a genre people like.
It's going to play to the power fantasy that Destiny 2 horribly failed with.
It should have a decent story. The writer from ME and ME2 is back.
You get to fly.

1. Great graphics don't make a great game. Been proven countless times.
2. Debatable with what the current genre has produced recently. It's classed as an ARPG and that genre has been quite weak recently.
3. And it can just as easily not play to it.
4. One writer doesn't make a difference.
5. If that's supposed to be a huge selling point then wow......

And stop using WoW as a benchmark or cause of MMOs failing. There are a good few that haven't and still do well.

If a game fails it fails on it's own accord. And there were quite a few games around 2009-2012 that were taking chunks at WoW. SWTOR, Rift and GW2. 2 of those 3 have dropped down considerably because of how the games were handled. Not because of another game in the market.

[Torto]

Well, I wish Bioware good luck because I have good feelings for them for all the great games they did, but I just don't feel this one for now - it seems to be repackaged Destiny to me.

The Bioware we all knew and loved is long gone, all that remains is a husk of a once great studio. The developers, the writers, the creators of such classic games like ME, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights etc are all gone, moved on or retired. It shouldn't even be called Bioware anymore, they are just riding the coat tails of a beloved games studio.

The good guys are gone, replaced with ideological virtue signallers who actually hate their core audience, if the developers of DA4 are anything to go by.

[Edge-]

I just meant how there's so little development on anything besides their precious Cartel Market. The last patch content, while fine. Was pitifully small and unimpressive.

Just using it as an example of an IP that EA has in their hands now and how little it gets worked on, aside from the "loot boxes."

Well...that's actually largely due to Anthem, apparently. BW Austin reportedly had a lot of the team pulled off SWTOR to help work on Anthem, as did other BW studios. IIRC they're starting to get folks back now and should be back up to full strength by the time Anthem launches.

Not arguing that last year was a pretty shit year for SWTOR, because it absolutely was, but there were outside reasons for that.

[kaelleria]

1. Great graphics don't make a great game. Been proven countless times.
2. Debatable with what the current genre has produced recently. It's classed as an ARPG and that genre has been quite weak recently.
3. And it can just as easily not play to it.
4. One writer doesn't make a difference.
5. If that's supposed to be a huge selling point then wow......

And stop using WoW as a benchmark or cause of MMOs failing. There are a good few that haven't and still do well.

If a game fails it fails on it's own accord. And there were quite a few games around 2009-2012 that were taking chunks at WoW. SWTOR, Rift and GW2. 2 of those 3 have dropped down considerably because of how the games were handled. Not because of another game in the market.

MMOs in general were on the decline in 2012 because of games like League of Legends. WoW was basically the only MMO polished enough to keep a large playerbase active for more than a year.

I wasn't really talking about the looter-shooter/arpg genre, but yes, there's a very limited amount of good looter-shooter/arpgs right now.

Anthem has the advantage of seeing what's preceded it in the genre and the industry as a whole. Destiny 1 was hugely popular, but they fucked up the power fantasy and progression in Destiny 2. The Division had a bad end game at launch and never really recovered.

I was speaking more about the whole scifi-fantasy thing that games like Halo and Destiny 1 did really well.

The gaming industry as a whole is in kind of flux right now. There were some large profile flops in 2017 and 2018, most notably being the SW:BF fiasco. EA in particular had a huge stock loss and stated to investors that they're going to move away from predatory monetization schemes. You don't lie to your investors if you want to be around for more than a few quarters.

Basically the recipe for success these days seems to be to make a polished game with decent gameplay that has some form of non-predatory MTX. It would be financial malfeasance for EA to try to stick to their old gameplan.

[Eleccybubb]

MMOs in general were on the decline in 2012 because of games like League of Legends. WoW was basically the only MMO polished enough to keep a large playerbase active for more than a year.

I wasn't really talking about the looter-shooter/arpg genre, but yes, there's a very limited amount of good looter-shooter/arpgs right now.

Anthem has the advantage of seeing what's preceded it in the genre and the industry as a whole. Destiny 1 was hugely popular, but they fucked up the power fantasy and progression in Destiny 2. The Division had a bad end game at launch and never really recovered.

I was speaking more about the whole scifi-fantasy thing that games like Halo and Destiny 1 did really well.

The gaming industry as a whole is in kind of flux right now. There were some large profile flops in 2017 and 2018, most notably being the SW:BF fiasco. EA in particular had a huge stock loss and stated to investors that they're going to move away from predatory monetization schemes. You don't lie to your investors if you want to be around for more than a few quarters.

Basically the recipe for success these days seems to be to make a polished game with decent gameplay that has some form of non-predatory MTX. It would be financial malfeasance for EA to try to stick to their old gameplan.

I'll believe it when I see it as far as EA is concerned. And this one game alone doesn't make up for the crap they've done such as ruining decent studios/IPs.

[Katchii]

Well...that's actually largely due to Anthem, apparently. BW Austin reportedly had a lot of the team pulled off SWTOR to help work on Anthem, as did other BW studios. IIRC they're starting to get folks back now and should be back up to full strength by the time Anthem launches.

Not arguing that last year was a pretty shit year for SWTOR, because it absolutely was, but there were outside reasons for that.

Fair point, but if SW:ToR were a more important project for them they wouldn't have pulled people from it to develop something else. SW:ToR is apparently just not that important to them so it's OK to be in such a pitiful state with laughable updates, marginal support and just bloated with Cartel Market items.

Unlike WoW, or FFXIV, where those games are so important and fleshed out that the studios hired more people to take on new projects, with dedicated teams for each project rather than pulling from the core team and let those games suffer because of it.

[Gorsameth]

Fair point, but if SW:ToR were a more important project for them they wouldn't have pulled people from it to develop something else. SW:ToR is apparently just not that important to them so it's OK to be in such a pitiful state with laughable updates, marginal support and just bloated with Cartel Market items.

Unlike WoW, or FFXIV, where those games are so important and fleshed out that the studios hired more people to take on new projects, with dedicated teams for each project rather than pulling from the core team and let those games suffer because of it.

What is more important then existing?
Because while ofc no one here knows the real story, the concensus feels pretty unanimous that Anthem has to be a hit or EA will dissolve Bioware like they did to so many studio's before.

[Edge-]

Fair point, but if SW:ToR were a more important project for them they wouldn't have pulled people from it to develop something else.

Not really, Anthem is BW's single biggest priority now, and even if SWTOR were back at its peak strength post F2P they would have likely still pulled devs away. They took folks from every BW team, including the team working on the next DA game.

SW:ToR is apparently just not that important to them so it's OK to be in such a pitiful state with laughable updates, marginal support and just bloated with Cartel Market items.

SWTOR is doing alright for what it is. It's not a rousing success anymore (never quite has been) and this past year was bad due losing folks to Anthem, but it's been chugging along alright for a while.

Unlike WoW, or FFXIV, where those games are so important and fleshed out that the studios hired more people to take on new projects, with dedicated teams for each project rather than pulling from the core team and let those games suffer because of it.

Except FFXIV keeps losing devs to other projects (even if it's not always publicly known) and the greater team sizes clearly haven't helped WoW given the ongoing issues with BFA.

It seems like you're trying to spin this into a negative for SWTOR/BW when really it's a pretty neutral thing. Lower priority projects (an older MMO with a moderate playerbase) are regularly put on hold or scaled back in favor of prioritizing getting key products onto the market (Anthem).

[stellvia]

Fair point, but if SW:ToR were a more important project for them they wouldn't have pulled people from it to develop something else. SW:ToR is apparently just not that important to them so it's OK to be in such a pitiful state with laughable updates, marginal support and just bloated with Cartel Market items.

Unlike WoW, or FFXIV, where those games are so important and fleshed out that the studios hired more people to take on new projects, with dedicated teams for each project rather than pulling from the core team and let those games suffer because of it.

SWTOR was largely a failed project once they took it F2P. It has never really seen the same commitment and polish as it got when it first came out. IMHO they're keeping it going largely as a pride thing and that it does make them at least SOME money since it is still Starwars. Another reason the priority would be lower: Ever since Disney took over the IP, SWTOR is no longer canon afaik. It's been tossed along with the entire rest of the EU. That it has been allowed to remain is likely due to the hefty development costs, so they politely asked them to let them continue running it since it was only out for a few years when Disney came in.

[Jshadowhunter]

Anthem: Bioware's next Mass Effect-like IP

Except without RPG elements like Mass Effect.

[Karrotlord]

Except without RPG elements like Mass Effect.

What's it missing from your PoV?

[Lahis]

What's it missing from your PoV?

Story
Characters
Role playing

[kaelleria]

Story
Characters
Role playing

Are you sure you aren't just substituting supercomplex branching narrative from previous BioWare games as RPG elements? Because there is a story, roleplaying and characters. You still have choices. Or all you basing everything off of the one tidbit of the first story mission that you've seen.

[kaelleria]

*Fallout 76 flashbacks intensify*

People shit on Fo76 because of the lack of human NPCs. They did this while ignoring the fact that there was a perfectly decent story that played out via interactions with other NPCs and holotapes.

That isn't the case in Anthem... Not really sure where you're getting the Fo76 vibe other than trying to be edgy and innacurate.

[Eleccybubb]

People shit on Fo76 because of the lack of human NPCs. They did this while ignoring the fact that there was a perfectly decent story that played out via interactions with other NPCs and holotapes.

That isn't the case in Anthem... Not really sure where you're getting the Fo76 vibe other than trying to be edgy and innacurate.

No. People "shit" on Fallout 76 because Bethesda made a lazy product. Simple as that.

Kind of like Bioware did with Andromeda.... oh wait EA outsorced that to a different team so they could get Bioware working on this. But I'm sure EA and Bioware are the good guys here.

There's been a hell of a paradigm shift within Bioware recently. So Anthem has to do good. Right now it looks meh at best. That's my opinion.

If you want to keep claiming people are "edgy" though go for it. All it makes you come off as here is defending EA for the sake of it on the hopes this game is good.

[kaelleria]

No. People "shit" on Fallout 76 because Bethesda made a lazy product. Simple as that.

Kind of like Bioware did with Andromeda.... oh wait EA outsorced that to a different team so they could get Bioware working on this. But I'm sure EA and Bioware are the good guys here.

There's been a hell of a paradigm shift within Bioware recently. So Anthem has to do good. Right now it looks meh at best. That's my opinion.

If you want to keep claiming people are "edgy" though go for it. All it makes you come off as here is defending EA for the sake of it on the hopes this game is good.

Shit on Fo76's story. They shit on a lot of other stuff too... a lot of it justified.

In regards to Anthem, heck yes I want it to be a good game. I've been interested in it since the first trailer in 2017 and have followed it pretty closely.

From what I've seen it hits the itches I'm looking for; A high mobility, sci-fi looter with good gunplay and a decent story. Keep in mind, no one who's played in the alphas can even tell you they played in the alpha without breaking NDA so you haven't heard many player reactions yet.

Monetization doesn't seem to be overtly evil. It's cosmetic only. The devs have been fairly communicative in their livestreams, on twitter and on reddit. They've answered questions and taken feedback directly. End game and player customization seems deep.

They're even doing a free demo.

Basically they're doing everything right. You can contrast that to how other studios have handled things recently and there's a huge gulf.

I personally don't care that they're under EA, because like I've stated earlier in this thread, I don't think the industry can be inherently scummy anymore and survive.

What I do care is about people spouting off inaugurate information or just shitting on the game because it's under a certain publisher.