Just So We're Perfectly Clear, There Will Be No Wall. Ever. This Is Why.

[Paranoid Android]

The claim made that "who cares, they are Democrats" is moronic and the Trumphadis are making it because it is legitimately the only way they can escape moral culpability for the shutdown: by lying like usual.

Having people not paying their bills to own the Libs. Which yes, they should care about the people, not who they vote for.

[tyrlaan]

None of which are related to park rangers being around or not lol.

But I guess that doesn't sit well with the lefties narrative.

I think you meant to write something like "bye psycho leftist". I mean, I don't think we've seen much evidence that you have much in repertoire beyond that. It's almost like you haven't been able to get your talking points from Fox News in a while so you are leaning on some outdated staples.

Also considering this was your 31st post on this account, and you wasted at least 2 of them just to call someone a "psycho leftist", I think we can all safely assume you're a ban-evading alt account.

[Adam Jensen]

I think you meant to write something like "bye psycho leftist". I mean, I don't think we've seen much evidence that you have much in repertoire beyond that. It's almost like you haven't been able to get your talking points from Fox News in a while so you are leaning on some outdated staples.

Also considering this was your 31st post on this account, and you wasted at least 2 of them just to call someone a "psycho leftist", I think we can all safely assume you're a ban-evading alt account.

Joined the same month Trump was elected. Coincidence?

[mvaliz]

I dunno, non-existence is an infinity and no matter how you move towards or away from an infinity, the distance stays the same . . .

Dumbass Dump supporters do not believe in science, hence why they still feel it’s attenable. Haven’t you forgotten this? ;P

[Dontrike]

None of which are related to park rangers being around or not lol.

But I guess that doesn't sit well with the lefties narrative.

Park rangers are government employees, so when they are not paid they don't do work. You're not very good at this.

[bagelmanman]

Park rangers are government employees, so when they are not paid they don't do work. You're not very good at this.

Ah ya I keep forgetting there were 0 deaths before the shutdown.

Like I said... Facts don't care about your feelings. And until you can accept that....wasting time.

[Dontrike]

Ah ya I keep forgetting there were 0 deaths before the shutdown. Facts don't care about your feelings.

Oh man, you got me....except you didn't as I didn't mention the deaths. Nice try though. I care about people getting their paycheck and Trump not being a fucking retarded, whining manchild because he can't get his new toy.

[tyrlaan]

Ah ya I keep forgetting there were 0 deaths before the shutdown.

Like I said... Facts don't care about your feelings. And until you can accept that....wasting time.

It's weird hearing a Trump supporter talk about facts like he/she actually pays them any heed.

[Xyonai]

It's weird hearing a Trump supporter talk about facts like he/she actually pays them any heed.

Yeah it's not the best card they have in their hand, all things considered. But that's giving this guy too much credit and assuming he's actually posting in good faith, rather than just being a semi-sapient shitpost like Healing Rain.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Trump is president right? That would be a winning strategy thus far in your context.

Trump being president seems to be the last and only win you guys have had. Kind of sad.

[Paranoid Android]

“[I]n 2014, his political advisers landed on the idea of a border wall as … a way to make sure their candidate—who … loved boasting about himself and his talents as a builder — would remember to talk about getting tough on immigration.” https://t.co/CoqipUh0iz

https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/statu...382905344?s=19

In other words—the “wall” was originally cooked up as a trick to use the candidate’s narcissism (“I am the greatest builder!”)to get him to talk about immigration policy.

Virtually *everything* about this man and his “presidency” can be understood through his narcissism.

https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/statu...678826497?s=19

I would say George Conway might have a little insight on the political branding of the wall. The narcissism part, we all know this.

[Mormolyce]

Buh bye psycho leftist

If I seem like a leftist to you then you've never seen a leftist lol.

[Breccia]

Ah ya I keep forgetting

Moving the goalposts. That's an ignorin'

[Mormolyce]

Glad to see another psycho was banned.

Yeah I'm the psycho here aha. Not the pedo apologist who's drooling over the prospect of a wall that will never happen, that wouldn't do anything if it did, which would cost the American taxpayer billions of dollars, which was supposed to be paid for by Mexico according to the crazy promises made by a senile criminal to win the votes of retards.

I'm the crazy one. Lel.

[stomination]

Ah, the political prognosticator who predicted previously a sweeping Hillary victory and the establishment destroying all political opposition creates yet more predictions.

He was all Trump till the Russia thing. Skroe just hates Russia.

[Dontrike]

He was all Trump till the Russia thing. Skroe just hates Russia.

I'd certainly like to see evidence of this claim.

[Voidism]

He was all Trump till the Russia thing. Skroe just hates Russia.

Correction: he dislike enemies. Internal and external.

[Breccia]

He was all Trump till the Russia thing. Skroe just hates Russia.

If you think failing to mention @Skroe means he won't see this, you're mistaken.

On topic: Mulvaney was recently grilled on calling the Wall "abusrd and almost childish" on camera. His response was, basically, that a bunch of illegal immigrants tried to cross during Trump's tenure and that changed his mind. Of course, as we've discussed over and over and has been verified as recently as December, illegal immigration from Mexico has reversed and Mulvaney is therefore lying.

In order to make himself look even more foolish, Mulvaney then said "Trump is willing to deal by taking a concrete Wall off the table, isn't that the best bestiest best?" Trump has, of course, already done so with his "steel slats" which has forced @lockedout to defend with "he never said concrete Wall, he always meant fence, despite saying on camera otherwise".

If that is not evidence of our willingness to solve the problem," Mulvaney continued. "Because again, what's driving this is the president's desire to change the conditions at the border. And if he has to give up a concrete wall, replace it with a steel fence in order to do that so that Democrats can say, 'See? He's not building a wall anymore' that should help us move in the right direction

Mulvaney is part of Trump's team he outsourced his Wall negotiating job to. In under 12 hours he's been forced to swallow a lie that multiple other Presidents told Trump they wanted the Wall; that he changed his mind about the Wall based on evidence that doesn't exist; and that Trump's big concession is "okay fine, the Wall will be a fence which we already knew". Only the best people, everyone.

[Orange Joe]

Buh bye psycho leftist

Hmmm... almost 36 hours later and still not infracted...... I know it was reported.

Keep up the great work mods!!!!!

[Skroe]

He was all Trump till the Russia thing. Skroe just hates Russia.

Stomination, you are a fucking lair.

The very first thing I said about Trump in the 2016 cycle, on 7/26/2015, was this.

Bernie versus Trump! Most entertaining election ever.

I know I said that whoever replaces Obama will be a rejection of Obama. But replacing the Age of Obama with the Age of Trump is sooooooooooooooo far beyond what I meant!

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

On 8/08/2015, I said this, because nobody, including me, took Trump seriously then. Again, not exactly a ringing endorsement. Like most people, we weren't paying attention much to the election yet.

Why have a woman in the White House when we can have an Emperor? Trump 2016! All Your Base Are Belong to Us, because we're all fucked in the end anyway, so why not?

That same day, I said perhaps the most Glowing thing I ever said about Trump. It's rather prophetic actually.

Oh please. We can close our eyes and pick one of the Republicans on the stage at random, put them up as President, and they'll all do exactly the same.

They're all cut from the same damn cloth.

They all (well most of them) have some completely pointless biographical story about their millworker father or something (that nobody actually cares about).

They all say mostly the same things about the issues, Obama, and foreign policy. They all want to spend truly prodigious amounts of time on small ball because - and Christ Christie called them on this - they don't have the balls to take on the big issues, like the 71% of the budget that is entitlements.

Truly they do not matter. It's a whole lot of "your story sucks, nobody cares, where's the beef?" and they don't have any beef.


Donald Trump is an asshole. He is a shark. He's thoroughly unlikable to most decent human beings. And I think that's exactly what we need as President. We need someone who is intimidating and can be feared for his unpredictability. What we don't need is someone you wanna have a drink with, or your pal, or your guidance counselor. We've tried those. They mostly suck at the job.

We tried the great empathizer, triangulating master, Bill Clinton.
We tried the Ultimate Insider and his Gang with George W Bush.
We tried the slick stunt-casted scholar who talks all eloquent and tries to do this ridiculous insiring act all the damn time, with Obama.

Let's go with Tony Soprano now. Because really... any one of the other Democrats or Republicans running are all on the same damn H-R Diagram of politics. Hillary will be one part Obama, three parts Bush and one part Bill. Jeb will be two parts Bush, two parts Clinton, one part Obama. Rubio will be two parts Obama, one part Bush, three parts Clinton. And in the end we get another 4 years of letting our country's strength atrophy.

This began a 1 month long flirtation with Trump's non-serious Candidacy.

There aren't many Democrats I'd vote for under any circumstances anymore. On the fence with Trump. I like a lot what I hear on things not-related-to immigration.

But Carson is an easy no. A very, very easy no. I'd for for Clinton over him.

You presume, far too liberally, the mood of the electorate. The media interviews people at Trump rallies who say "I was Clinton supporter, until Trump cam along", and the media is perplexed by it. I for one, don't think it's perplexing at all. But don't mistake Trump's popularity as a symbol of anything about the other Republicans. There is no chance Ted Cruz will be President. Carson is this weak nice guy who believes some particularly crazy shit.

I, like others, saw him as a disrupter. But you know what, we all took it as a joke. Including Donald Trump. Harmless fall primary season fun.

See?

I'm looking forward to President Trump unleashing the Third World War from his office on the 65th floor of the black-glass Trump Tower in New York City, rather than the stately quaint White House. Houses are for pussies. Towers are for masters of fate.*


*not really of course.

Putin looked into Trump's soul and saw a plutocrat.

But then Trump's racism came to the forefront of my awareness, and I rapidly shifted. Because no matter what else I agree on, that is a bridge too far. But I'm still talking about Ted Cruz, and not really taking Trump all that seriously.

December 2015

Yup. Because I want Ted Cruz and anyone who supports him exiled to the wilderness for the next 20 years, just like what happened when Lyndon Johnson smashed Barry Goldwater, the John Birch Society, and the progenitors of the modern know-nothings on stage tonight.

These people aren't Republicans. They're extremists. They're radicals. We're a center-right country. Center-right. That makes the people who say they won't compromise with the political opposition, or deport millions of people, or ban muslim immigration extremists.

Ted Cruz is the man whose self-interests showboating brought the US to the brink of default a few years back, among many of his other escapades.

Ted Cruz, and the people who support him, are the villians in this story, and they will continue to be until they are dealt the rejection of a life time. Until they see, once and for all, this country has no interest in buying what they're selling. The Republicans on stage tonight would not condemn Trump's racism. Ted Cruz, over the past 4 months has repeatedly declined doing so. They won't do it because they don't want to alienate a crypto-racist base of extremists that has infiltrated the Republican ranks.

These people need to go. All of them. So yes, I want Cruz nominated, only so he can lose badly and give his supporters no excuse as to why they lost.

My support was Hillary was clear on 1-11-2016. This is around when I started taking things seriously as Trump started to wipe out the other Republicans. Right around Iowa / New Hampshire.

Depends.

If Obama sits down, shuts up and lets this year be about Hillary, then no.

If Obama's farewell tour becomes a greatest hits of why millions of Americans, like myself, have turned on him, then it becomes more and more likely. Don't forget: Trump's biggest support base is among independents, the country's largest voting bloc.

I'd be fine with President Hillary, but that's because her true for is very much the anti-Obama.

Yes. 100%. It is happening.

First, let's be clear, Bernie Sanders will not be President. That is not happening. Don't worry what the "Feel the Bern" kids say. They're going to come down, hard, in about a month. And they're going to be very bitter about it. Bernie Sanders can maybe win Iowa, probably New Hampshire, and it gets darker from there. And even if he can get past Clinton, somehow, some way, fact is, there aren't enough of them to out number the people who would vote for the devil himself (Trump) just as to not vote for a self-professed Democratic Socialist.

As the month bore on, and Trump looked more likely to win, I hoped for a party split. Ted Cruz was every bit as terrible as I had said still. But he wasn't Donald Trump (not that I was supporting Cruz).

This is hilarious.

With Palin and other conservatives going with trump and Ted Cruz and other conservatives going his way, it's splitting the cancer that has taken hold in the Republican Party.

There will not be post-election reconciliation.

Bernie Sanders is as every bit as unacceptable as Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, just in a different way. Every bit as fanciful too.

Spending $1.3 trillion to expand Medicare to provide Universal Healthcare is a stupid solution to the wrong problem.

Oh yeah and because it would require 60 liberal Senators and 219 liberal Congressmen (which Democrats won't get until after 2020 redistricting at the soonest), It's never going to happen. And keep in mind how Democrats got that in 2008: a wave election against an unpopular republican President with conservative "blue dog" Democrats.

Bernie Sanders' vision for the country, well meaning as it is, is as likely to happen as Donald Trump's wall and mass deportations. There is no universe in which he gets anywhere close to the votes.

This is from February 2016. The Torture issue as at the forefront still.

(1) Empirical evidence from studies indicates Torture Doesn't provide useful intelligence.
(2) The vast majority of military, law enforcement and intelligence personel involved in interrogating suspects have said torture does not work but conventional (and legal) methods do.
(3) Victims of Torture in prior wars have come out and denounced the morality behind waterboarding and other forms of "enhanced interrogation".

Donald Trump and people who would see the US waterboard or do worse are expressing a desire to inflict pain as a form of punishment. Let's cut through it: they want to hurt terrorists because they see it as right and proper that terrorists feel pain for what they did or want to do.

That's barbarism. It's pre-modern. It's anti-Constitutional.

I can empathize with the feeling that terrorists "get off easy". Really this entire thing is an expression of the somehow STILL unresolved debate over if Terrorism is a crime (thus the responsibility of police, the FBI, etc) versus is Terrorism an act of war (thus the responsibility of military forces, intelligence servces, etc). Liberals pushed hard... way too hard, for the former, after 9/11, and at times, incredulously, still push.

But the result is to overreact and say "you know, instead of giving them a lawyer, we should torture them". That's ridiculous. It's barbaric.

Anyway I'll just leave this here:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/02/politi...ng-cruz-trump/

The top U.S. commander for the fight against ISIS on Monday slammed the idea of "carpet bombing" the terror group.

Army Lt. Gen. Sean MacFarland, who directs the coalition fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria, provided the most detailed military criticism to date about the concept and detailed why it's militarily unacceptable.

"Indiscriminate bombing where we don't care if we are killing innocents or combatants is just inconsistent with our values," he said in response to a question from CNN on the possibility of using carpet bombing.

Though MacFarland didn't mention any political candidates by name in his answer, Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas while on the campaign trail has called for employing the practice against ISIS.
.
"We are the United States of America, and you know we have a set of guiding principles and those affect the way we, as professional soldiers, airmen, sailors marines conduct ourselves on the battlefield," MacFarland said at a news conference from his Baghdad headquarters held before the Iowa caucuses. "We are bound by the laws of armed conflict. And you know at the end of the day, it doesn't only matter if you win, it matters how you win."

Now when told this, like when they were told that the Military would see leadership mass retire upon a Trump Presidency that saw an expansion of the war in Syria, Trump supporters incredulously respond with "Well Trump will find Generals who will bring the fight to the enemy" or some similar cartoon-level come back, ignoring that the US Military promotes from within and has a certain orthodoxy it's leadership enforces. The next-in-line are proteges of the current top brass, all the way down.

Lt. General MacFarland basically speaks for the armed force's official position. So this 'debate' is academic. The military, for years, has flouted things Obama wanted that it disagreed with. Even Obama firing Generals didn't work. And under a President who insanely, embraces torture, you can take to the bank, they'd do the exact same thing.

Sanders supporters flaw has been their inability to understand why people don't want what Sanders is selling.

Many of them are going to come out of Super Tuesday, and then Super-Duper Tuesday two weeks later, and embarass themselves with excuses left and right as to why their guy failed.

"Sanders was screwed" is illegitimate when his healthcare and economic platform is as much a farcical work of fiction as Donald Trump's wall.

3-06-2016

Who says I support Trump? He's a racist, war-crime cheering monster. I support Hillary Clinton.

No.
- Donald Trump is a fascist, racist, thug-promoting populist embarrassment.
- Ted Cruz took this country to the brink of default, is a posturing egotist, and has been a key source of American political dysfunction since 2012.
- Marco Rubio believes crazy social things and was put into power on the back of the Tea Party. He is only the "establishment candidate" in the way Uranus is closer to the sun than Neptune.
- Bernie Sanders is an unimaginative throwback extremist who has recklessly and dangerously proliferated talk of 'revolution'. His policy objectives are either undesirable or fiscally fraudulent. His understanding if our economy is grade school level.

A Vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote for sanity from four individuals who are unqualified to even in a President's cabinet.

I am on the right though. I'm a centrist-Republican. I'm voting for Hillary Clinton BECAUSE she is Republican-lite.

Donald Trump is a racist, fascist, thuggish war crime-encouraging demagogue.
Ted Cruz is an egomaniac who has taken the country to the brink of default and has nothing but terrible ideas for this country.
Marco Rubio is far right, not center-right, and is a product of the extremist Tea Party.

All three are unacceptable, extremist choices.

My party has been hijacked by extremists who aren't conservatives, are anti-intellectual, and promote war crimes and enable racism. I'm fine with any one of them being the nominee so they can lose badly and we can see a post-election purge.

But in the mean time the United States has so much going for it right now, what we need is steady hand. Clinton is the obvious choice. The republicans are on the extremist right. Sanders is a radical leftist whose revolution talk is sickening.

It's time to put away Bernie Sanders. Its time to dig a ditch and throw his campaign in it, before proceeding to shovel dirt on top of it.

Sanders is already mathematically behind in the delegate count to a degree that is impossible to come back from. Hillary Clinton's lead is larger than Obama's was at this point in 2008.

It's time for Clinton to slam the door on him and his supporters and start focusing on the general election.

This election cycle has been disgusting and the two architectures of the obscenity it has become have been Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. Donald Trump with his fascism, racism, thuggery, blatant lies, war crime encouraging and know-nothingism is at large part in fault. Sanders, with his reckless, dangerous and completely un called for 'Revolution' talk bears some degree of responsibility as well. Revolutions are often violent and people get hurt. What we saw in Chicago reflects terribly on both sides. Donald Trump has openly encouraged violence and thuggery. Sanders has not, and that is a key difference. But people are stupid in crowds, especially when passionate. And Bernie has stoked a revolutionary fire as well.

Both need to be put down hard.

Trump will win most of the delegates Tuesday, but I'm hoping that the rumors of a Rubio/Cruz alliance on Wednesday are true, not because I would vote for them (both are unacceptable for different reasons), but because American politics in this campaign needs to return to the civilized normal and they very much are of it. Unfortunately the Republican Party fight will last months more.

And it's time for Sanders to be handed the kind of defeat that no more of his absurdist populist rants can explain itself backfrom. He'll probably win one or two "surprise" states, but there won't be any blow outs, and Hillary will see a huge in in Florida, meaning Sanders, yet again, will be further behind.

After Tuesday, Hillary should refuse to debate or engage in Town Halls, Sanders, who will be for all intents and purposes, completely defeated. Let him continue a rump campaign if he wishes, but Sanders needs big wins in big states, not narrow ones or big wins in small states. That's not going to happen. I expect him to be the net delegate loser on Tuesday. I do not expect him to shut down his campaign on Wednesday though, due to small donations and enthusiasm from supporters. But the campaign will be effectively over from the standpoint of winning and Hillary should refuse to play ball any further. March 15th has been the date I chose months ago as the effective end of the Sanders campaign, and I'm sticking to that.

It's time for this side show to end and the freaks to go back in their cages..

(note: the number of posts about Bernie is because most of my political posts after Trump decimated the Republicans was in the Bernie Megathread, and my political interests were in promoting Hillary Clinton to defeat Trump)


Need I continue?

Basically in mid to late 2015, when Donald Trump first showed up, I, like many Americans (including Donald Trump) didn't take his ridiculous campaign seriously. And he said some things which were and still aren't entirely wrong about America being bad negotiators (America First is way too far) and the ossification of the political class. The racism, the wall and all that a lot of people weren't aware of yet, even though it was probably out there in an embryonic form by then. This is around the time of that rally in Alabama with Jeff Sessions.

After about a month (and a handful of comments on my part... and consider how many comments I write on political issues nowdays) it became clear that Trump was unacceptable and racist. And as the campaign got more serious (and successful), I started taking his danger more seriously. And before the first ballot was cast in 2016 primary, I was behind Clinton. Why? Because even by then I had identified Trump has a demagogue, a racist, a fascist, and a liar.

Russia, as you see form the comments above, had nothing to do with that rapid evolution. It was entirely about the racism and the wall and his promotion of things which are war crimes and against American values. And then as we got to know him better, more negative features about his character and agenda came to light.

I identified the wall as a racist monstrocity in the last quarter of 2015. And here we are, in early 2019. It's never been about Russia. It's always been about Donald Trump being the incarnation of everything shameful about America.

Reading these posts, I see several things I can regret (and I think many Americans could as well). Even momentary flirtations and not taking candidacies seriously is a grave mistake. Donald Trump should have been shut down from the first minute, regardless if he said some topically accurate things. But so did other people. People who weren't racist demagogues. We can't repeat that behavior.

I think, if you see early on, I fed off the Trump memeing - see the "Emperor Trump" comment. Of course, unlike the Trumphadis, I dropped that in about a month, because things started to get more serious.

In the Bernie thread, I "two-sides it" waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. Bernie's "revolution" talk was stupid. But in retrospect, it was clearly just talk and the things I expressed about the potential for violence was way overblown, especially when it was compared on semi-equal footing with Trumphadis. And let's recall, we have actually had a MAGABomber and his MAGAMobile now. Bernie's campaign and platform was trash, but he isn't within ten light years of being the threat to America that Donald Trump was at the same time.

But I think the story of my so-called support for Donald Trump is pretty fucking clear. I am a conservative. Obama did some things, particularly on Foreign Policy, that I found thoroughly objectionable. I, like many Americans (for our own reasons), wanted something fresh. Something more than the wife of an ex-President, or that stage full of Republicans, and not as liberal as Bernie. Trump looked like a kind of third-way. For an entire month. And then everything else about him moved to the forefront.

So I dropped him like a bad habit and rapidly swung hard to the person most likely to take him down - Hillary Clinton, before the first vote was cast in the primary. Not enough people did. And now we have the worst President in American history, and America's experiment with authoritarianism live, and in color, and debasing the institution and our traditions on a daily basis.

I hope you're happy.