14-year-old charged with murder in deadly crash

[Oakshana]

I can't see how this is murder instead of manslaughter.

Yeah. This is pretty much my thinking. Murder is killing someone with intent. Manslaughter is the unintentional killing of someone by your actions without predetermination or forethought.

Charging a 14 year old with murder in this case seems a bit extreme. He should be punished for sure, and it's horrible someone died, but it was due to poor choice and the obvious lack of thought of a child.

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More telling are the people in this thread who are defending his actions with "he's just a kid".

Oh, I am not saying he wasn't stupid, didn't do something wrong, or saying he shouldn't be tried or punished. I am saying this wasn't murder, as such, and his age needs to be taken into account when determining the punishment.

[Themius]

Something is wrong with Gen Y-Z and this article is proof of this.

So joy rides didn't exist until the 90s?

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And America wonders why it has so many people in prison and makes up 25% of the entire worlds prison population.

Joy ride car accident? Now you're a murderer! And let's charge you as an adult and give you life!! Fucking backwards as fuck.

This kid I hope gets off. Unless they charged him with multiple things including a manslaughter then all other charges should be not guilty with one guilty on manslaughter. If this is just a murder charge and they don't pursue anything else, I hope he gets off as anything less than that considering the charges is just objective injustice.

[Celista]

Oh, I am not saying he wasn't stupid, didn't do something wrong, or saying he shouldn't be tried or punished. I am saying this wasn't murder, as such, and his age needs to be taken into account when determining the punishment.

What makes it murder is the felony related to driving a car underage. Basically, he did a lot of wrong stuff before killing someone accidentally. That being said, I agree that children should be charged as children and that charging them as adults for crimes is an abomination of our criminal justice system.

[xGLxAnubis]

Involuntary Manslaughter.

If you're doing something with gross disregard for human life, even if you don't intend to kill or harm someone, it's still second degree murder. Involuntary Manslaughter would be like running a red light; illegal and dumb, but not grossly negligent. Or backing up into someone, etc.

If you're speeding WELL over the speed limit, under age, illegally driving someones car, AND run a red light... That's probably enough to warrant gross negligence rather than just an 'accident'.

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Manslaughter is the unintentional killing of someone by your actions without predetermination or forethought.

Not always. Second Degree murder can be pretty broad, including gross negligence. Did you have forethought that your actions were grossly negligent, and those actions then lead to someone's death? That's 2nd Degree murder then. Drunk driving, for example, might result in a manslaughter charge. Drunk driving on a suspended license however, is almost always 2nd Degree Murder. Not only did you know you shouldn't be driving drunk, but you had been told by an authority directly you can't drive at all; this constitutes forethought of your action to do both.

[Oakshana]

Not always. Second Degree murder can be pretty broad, including gross negligence. Did you have forethought that your actions were grossly negligent, and those actions then lead to someone's death? That's 2nd Degree murder then. Drunk driving, for example, might result in a manslaughter charge. Drunk driving on a suspended license however, is almost always 2nd Degree Murder. Not only did you know you shouldn't be driving drunk, but you had been told by an authority directly you can't drive at all; this constitutes forethought of your action to do both.

Agreed... but children typically do not ever demonstrate this kind of forethought.

I know there are degrees. But I don't necessarily feel they apply in this particular situation. That's all.

[PosPosPos]

I mean, just today I encountered a large group of Americans telling me it's okay for parents to slam dunk toddlers who misbehave.

Comparatively, this prank by an underaged kid must be something to send to adult prison for, or worse, executed.

[ellieg]

So joy rides didn't exist until the 90s?

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And America wonders why it has so many people in prison and makes up 25% of the entire worlds prison population.

Joy ride car accident? Now you're a murderer! And let's charge you as an adult and give you life!! Fucking backwards as fuck.

This kid I hope gets off. Unless they charged him with multiple things including a manslaughter then all other charges should be not guilty with one guilty on manslaughter. If this is just a murder charge and they don't pursue anything else, I hope he gets off as anything less than that considering the charges is just objective injustice.

Well I hope you never get a call saying your wife was killed by a teenager who stole a car and was driving around throwing things at other cars.

[Haloswin]

Doesn't matter. The kid was an idiot, for sure. However, he is just that, a kid. The Adult committed a crime by giving chase in a vehicle, and brandishing a fire arm. So while the kid caused the anger, the guy who gave chase and had a guy escalated it and caused the accident to occur. I highly doubt that without that guy chasing in like that, he would have blown a red light.

Only on the first page so I'm unaware if more info has come out -- but the article states the second guy was alleged to have brandished a weapon -- you're moving forward as if it's a fact. For all we know the little douchebag that willfully and willingly took a car that he wasn't authorized to drive and then decided he'd up the ante by egging other people is trying to cover his own ass and lying about the gun. Rather than condemn one and dismiss the totally reprehensible actions of the little douchebag because "he's just a kid" how about you wait out the information and make sure the guy actually had a gun.

[PosPosPos]

Only on the first page so I'm unaware if more info has come out -- but the article states the second guy was alleged to have brandished a weapon -- you're moving forward as if it's a fact. For all we know the little douchebag that willfully and willingly took a car that he wasn't authorized to drive and then decided he'd up the ante by egging other people is trying to cover his own ass and lying about the gun. Rather than condemn one and dismiss the totally reprehensible actions of the little douchebag because "he's just a kid" how about you wait out the information and make sure the guy actually had a gun.

Because 14 year olds are mentally mature adults.

It's funny, because we get so many adults who can basically pass themselves off as children mentally.

[HeiAggra]

Egging a moving car is willful endangerment and manslaughter. Yes, it IS attempting to kill people even if the people doing it are too stupid to realize that hey, something flying at a 45mph vehicle may cause them to jerk the wheel and crash.

Also try to clean the egg with water and see what happens

[Cruor]

100% the kids fault and 0% the other guys fault. Pulling a gun and chasing someone who egged your car is the correct reaction and he should be considered a hero for putting a car thieving vandals rampage to an end. Kid killed an innocent because of stupidity and should get the death penalty.

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So joy rides didn't exist until the 90s?

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And America wonders why it has so many people in prison and makes up 25% of the entire worlds prison population.

Joy ride car accident? Now you're a murderer! And let's charge you as an adult and give you life!! Fucking backwards as fuck.

This kid I hope gets off. Unless they charged him with multiple things including a manslaughter then all other charges should be not guilty with one guilty on manslaughter. If this is just a murder charge and they don't pursue anything else, I hope he gets off as anything less than that considering the charges is just objective injustice.

Why am I not surprised?

[Themius]

100% the kids fault and 0% the other guys fault. Pulling a gun and chasing someone who egged your car is the correct reaction and he should be considered a hero for putting a car thieving vandals rampage to an end. Kid killed an innocent because of stupidity and should get the death penalty.

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Why am I not surprised?

surprised by what that I don't think this should be a life sentence? I mean you shouldn't be surprised by sense.

[Cruor]

surprised by what that I don't think this should be a life sentence? I mean you shouldn't be surprised by sense.

You are constantly on the criminals/illegal immigrant/welfare abuser etc side. The kid KNOWS stealing the car was wrong (I did at 14) he KNOWS egging people is wrong, and could cause an accident, he KNOWS running a red light is wrong, and he killed someone. He willingly killed someone because all the events that lead up to it he knew were wrong and he chose to do it any way. He is a murder, give him the death penalty.

Also, no, I never did super bad stuff when I was young, because *gasp* I knew it was wrong. The WORST stuff I did was like not do my homework, or pick on the annoying fat kid who asked for it by being a little asshole. I never stole, vandalized, mugged people, stole cars etc... this is stuff scumbags do, and we should eliminate them.

[Themius]

You are constantly on the criminals/illegal immigrant/welfare abuser etc side. The kid KNOWS stealing the car was wrong (I did at 14) he KNOWS egging people is wrong, and could cause an accident, he KNOWS running a red light is wrong, and he killed someone. He willingly killed someone because all the events that lead up to it he knew were wrong and he chose to do it any way. He is a murder, give him the death penalty.

Also, no, I never did super bad stuff when I was young, because *gasp* I knew it was wrong. The WORST stuff I did was like not do my homework, or pick on the annoying fat kid who asked for it by being a little asshole. I never stole, vandalized, mugged people, stole cars etc... this is stuff scumbags do, and we should eliminate them.

He didn't willingly killed anyone that's just stupid. Someone died, doesn't mean he willingly killed them.

are you every fucking teen in the world? Please get back to me when you are. Stats don't lie, teen years are the height of criminality, sexuality, and impulsiveness after those years it wears off and likelihood of criminality goes down.

[Cruor]

He didn't willingly killed anyone that's just stupid. Someone died, doesn't mean he willingly killed them.

are you every fucking teen in the world? Please get back to me when you are. Stats don't lie, teen years are the height of criminality, sexuality, and impulsiveness after those years it wears off and likelihood of criminality goes down.

They died as a result of criminal behavior he knew was wrong. Are you going to tell me a 14 year old did not understand stealing the car and egging other cars was really bad? If he didn't understand that, he wouldn't have the mental capacity to operate a car either. Thus, he knowingly did something stupid and someone died for it. He is a murderer. Death Penalty.

[Pooti]

They died as a result of criminal behavior he knew was wrong. Are you going to tell me a 14 year old did not understand stealing the car and egging other cars was really bad? If he didn't understand that, he wouldn't have the mental capacity to operate a car either. Thus, he knowingly did something stupid and someone died for it. He is a murderer. Death Penalty.

I agree 100% except for the last 2 sentences. I would say that he is a murderer under Texas law, where he CHOSE to commit the crimes, and should face whatever punishment the court sees fit. "Boys will be boys" is a bullshit excuse made up by shitty parents to excuse the behavior of their shitty kids.

[Themius]

They died as a result of criminal behavior he knew was wrong. Are you going to tell me a 14 year old did not understand stealing the car and egging other cars was really bad? If he didn't understand that, he wouldn't have the mental capacity to operate a car either. Thus, he knowingly did something stupid and someone died for it. He is a murderer. Death Penalty.

"died as a result" isn't magically "willingly" that's like saying when I agreed to get fucked I also agreed to to contract an STD because you know if you have sex well STDs can happen if it is unprotected therefore "willingly" got an STD. No that's not how it works.

Death penalty for literally an accidental death? Holy shit why the fuck is wrong with you?

[Cruor]

"died as a result" isn't magically "willingly" that's like saying when I agreed to get fucked I also agreed to to contract an STD because you know if you have sex well STDs can happen if it is unprotected therefore "willingly" got an STD. No that's not how it works.

Death penalty for literally an accidental death? Holy shit why the fuck is wrong with you?

It isn't the same at all. Having sex isn't a crime. This kid is clearing a criminal scumbag, just starting out.

[Themius]

It isn't the same at all. Having sex isn't a crime. This kid is clearing a criminal scumbag, just starting out.

It is the same.

Your illogical argument is.

"An accident that takes places when a crime is taking place makes the accident not an accident"

Which is stupid.

If you jay walk and bump into a person which then leads to them getting into a car accident does this mean you willingly committed murder and need to be put to death?

You say "just starting out" stats say "significant fall off after teen years"

[stevenho]

This is literally the blueprint for a 2nd chance case.
I'd give him something like "out in 7", free at 21 y/o and a chance to live a normal life.