and the govt shutdown still exists..

[Vexilius]

cause we have an overgrown child running the country as Commander in chief.
So many people not getting paid...mortgages not getting paid. People might lose their homes etc.

and now Trump administration officials are trying to get a pay raise while the thousands of govt employees that work there , are getting shafted.

How can this man still have supporters when he is f:ing up the country simply because he wants billions for a wall that can easily be dug under?

Did you blame President Obama when the government was shut down?

[Orlong]

Just to toss in an anecdote, my best friend would be dying if not for the ACA. He had no access to affordable health care, and ended up with cancer. He is alive today because of the ACA.

Poor people already had Medicaid or SSI. If he wasnt poor, then his priorities were wrong.

[oplawlz]

Just to toss in an anecdote, my best friend would be dying if not for the ACA. He had no access to affordable health care, and ended up with cancer. He is alive today because of the ACA.

Another anecdote: I know several families with children that had to drop their health insurance altogether because it became so expensive under the ACA.

[zenkai]

Wherein you literally complain about people freely expressing themselves through speech.

Yes. You're an unrepentant and blatant liar. You aren't standing up for free speech at all. You literally attacked free speech, right here in this post.

I'm complaining about being using violence and harassment to shut others speech down, just like how you try to do it with people you disagree with. It's a very toxic way to be in life.

[Endus]

The hypocrisy is about 30% on both sides. So again, it just makes me laugh to see all the people blinded by the politics of their own party.

I'm not even American, so GTFO with that "own party" nonsense.

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I'm complaining about being using violence and harassment to shut others speech down, just like how you try to do it with people you disagree with. It's a very toxic way to be in life.

No, you aren't.

Both of your examples were about speech.

And nobody's freedom of speech was restricted in either case. A platform for broadcast is not a component of freedom of speech and is not something you have any right to.

[Shaderas]

Another anecdote: I know several families with children that had to drop their health insurance altogether because it became so expensive under the ACA.

But did they die?

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

[Ragedaug]

I'm not even American, so GTFO with that "own party" nonsense.

Would you be happier if I said 'tribe', or would that better help you understand the point I was making?

[Kathandira]

Poor people already had Medicaid or SSI. If he wasnt poor, then his priorities were wrong.

He is a Side Show performer. Not a lot of money, but it is his life long dream.

[zenkai]

I'm not even American, so GTFO with that "own party" nonsense.

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No, you aren't.

Both of your examples were about speech.

And nobody's freedom of speech was restricted in either case. A platform for broadcast is not a component of freedom of speech and is not something you have any right to.

Only in Bizzarro world would someone claim violent protesters forcing someone to stop speaking at an event is not against open and free speech. I mean i knew you you were a lefty but I had no idea how far down the well you were, you are literally clueless.

[Noxx79]

Yeah. When there is a Republican president who refuses to sign a budget bill by the democrats, its the republican's fault for not rubber stamping what the democrats think is right, and when its a Democrat president, and the Republican congress doesnt give him what he wants, its still the republican's fault. This happens every time there is a government shutdown.. Its never the democrats fault for being hardline. Its always the Republican's fault for not caving in and giving the democrats what they want. Dont you know. Republicans arent allowed to hold their line. 5Billion is a measly pittance compared to the bill. This isnt about money.

The democrats want to fund the day to day business of government, while the Republicans are the ones trying to slip in quasi repeals and border wall. There is no inconsistency, unless you have to dumb it down to the level of a toddler to understand.

If 5 million is a pittance, surely trump can do without it?

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Only in Bizzarro world would someone claim violent protesters forcing someone to stop speaking at an event is not against open and free speech. I mean i knew you you were a lefty but I had no idea how far down the well you were, you are literally clueless.

Only in bizzaro world do you make sense. I knew you were a hypocrite, but you are literally clueless.

[Kyphael]

The biggest plot hole in the excuse for the continued shutdown is... besides the fact you can dug under or scale a wall, all of a sudden it's not a "solid wall" for obvious reasons (because a solid one couldn't be done.) Some of it can be "just fencing" (which already exists) and it's not even supposed to be concrete! But a transparent wall of some sort of material (bullet proof glass? fiber glass? lol) which has a cost no one really knows. Even if he got his 5 billion, cost estimates far exceed that, so what's next? Throw another temper tantrum the next time there's a budget bill to pass? How much money is enough?

It's trying to fulfill a campaign promise that was impossible to deliver on at the cost of government and the people who elected him to serve. Illegal immigration can be fought a great many ways, but Goddamn is this the dumbest way to go about it and unbecoming of the leader of the world's biggest economic power (not that the position he finds himself in ever dawned on the man.) Surveillance drones, more man power and paying more people at processing would all be a more efficient way to combat illegal immigration at the border than a vanity project spouted out during a very passionate campaign that preyed on the vulnerabilities of a disillusioned sect of the population.

How long until one realizes coal jobs are obsolete and you need specialized training for a job in the 21st?
That a wall will not do the job but surveillance tech and more man power can improve illegal immigration?

Two years isn't enough?
Three years?
Four years?

I don't think you have that long, meanwhile, people who work for the government are going without pay. That's making American great again, right?

[r3gul8r]

You don't work for customs.

Ok partner. Gladly working through this shut down, awaiting our long awaited wall. Chief of Border Patrol has stated numerous times we need the wall. Those individuals claiming only the officer/agents say we need it, and not upper ranks is fake news.

[Kathandira]

Another anecdote: I know several families with children that had to drop their health insurance altogether because it became so expensive under the ACA.

That is terrible.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Because this is not what evil is

Evil is someone like Hillary who knows what she wants,and how to get it,and won't hesitate to accomplish it through nefarious means

Trump is not evil,he's just incompetent and out of place
It's like giving a fully automatic assault rifle to a toddler.They don't mean to do bad,but they may or may not cause a lot of problem solely because they have no clue about what's happening

Evil is cancelling the money paying for a sick child in hospital, WHO HAPPENS TO BE THE GRANDCHILD OF YOUR BROTHER, simply because the child's parent is arguing the will of their grandparent is unfair because it cut them entirely out. A will written by a man suffering dementia, but was being "helped" by his dear old son, Donald.

No. Making an innocent child suffer because someone questioned that you tampered with a will and would like to get some inheritance is pretty damn evil.

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This is anecdotal evidence. Although I will say that I feel like the majority of the forum posters here do lean left

It might look that way. It helps that republicans with any moral decency couldn't stand being on the side of the current administration.

[Sky High]

Ok partner. Gladly working through this shut down, awaiting our long awaited wall. Chief of Border Patrol has stated numerous times we need the wall. Those individuals claiming only the officer/agents say we need it, and not upper ranks is fake news.

upload jpg

pffffffffft, of course you think terrorists are the ones crawling through the Mexican desert. gotta keep those pay checks coming to pay for your job!

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Ok partner. Gladly working through this shut down, awaiting our long awaited wall. Chief of Border Patrol has stated numerous times we need the wall. Those individuals claiming only the officer/agents say we need it, and not upper ranks is fake news.

I feel safer knowing people like you won't get that wall. It'd only trap the rest of us in the US with you.

[watatsuya]

The biggest plot hole in the excuse for the continued shutdown is... besides the fact you can dug under or scale a wall, all of a sudden it's not a "solid wall" for obvious reasons (because a solid one couldn't be done.) Some of it can be "just fencing" (which already exists) and it's not even supposed to be concrete! But a transparent wall of some sort of material (bullet proof glass? fiber glass? lol) which has a cost no one really knows. Even if he got his 5 billion, cost estimates far exceed that, so what's next? Throw another temper tantrum the next time there's a budget bill to pass? How much money is enough?

It's trying to fulfill a campaign promise that was impossible to deliver on at the cost of government and the people who elected him to serve. Illegal immigration can be fought a great many ways, but Goddamn is this the dumbest way to go about it and unbecoming of the leader of the world's biggest economic power (not that the position he finds himself in ever dawned on the man.) Surveillance drones, more man power and paying more people at processing would all be a more efficient way to combat illegal immigration at the border than a vanity project spouted out during a very passionate campaign that preyed on the vulnerabilities of a disillusioned sect of the population.

How long until one realizes coal jobs are obsolete and you need specialized training for a job in the 21st?
That a wall will not do the job but surveillance tech and more man power can improve illegal immigration?

Two years isn't enough?
Three years?
Four years?

I don't think you have that long, meanwhile, people who work for the government are going without pay. That's making American great again, right?

Add the fact that the wall was just a talking point Roger Stone insisted Trump put in his speeches so he doesn't forget to mention immigration and you really wonder what it is we're all fighting about.

In any case, $5B would be wonderful if it were to be used for increased processing ability for asylum seekers, more staff to pursue those who overstay visas, etc. But that's not what he wants.

[Narwal]

One big difference is that one side had already claimed the blame for the shutdown, rather emphatically.

Exactly. That's why Democrats have already won the argument, as I stated. I also stated my position that I could see a valid point in allowing the shutdown to happen, exactly because Trump said he'd take the blame. The shutdown occurred, and because it happened Trump gets blamed. The points, as you will, have been scored. Now, over time, the actual ramifications will begin. That is, severe damage to Democrat voters federal workers, and some sparsely to others. Democrats scored the points, and Trump has already lost all he can on this issue, from a political stand-point, I believe the Democrats only direction to go on this is down. If the hostages of this situation were farmers, I'd say go for it Democrats, play your political game of denying all funding for a wall. However, because the people being hurt by this are a majority their voters, I'd say they better be careful, because they're sacrificing the lives of their own voters based only on principle, because surely it's not about the actual cost.

[r3gul8r]

So many arm chair politicians in this forum that think they know what's best for this country. You won't even notice the wall fund in your taxes.

What I don't understand is how can any of you discredit what Border Patrol agents/CBP Officers/Air and Marine agents say when we are the ones down here experiencing it first hand?

[Orbitus]

I remember saying the same thing in 2013 when it shutdown for Obamacare.

You do remember the child that actually shut down the government in 2013, right? It was Ted Cruz. He shut it down, to try to stop funding for Obamacare that was already funded, there was no stopping it. You think it was Obama's fault? You are on crack if you think it was Obama's fault.

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So he promise a wall, gets elected and now still demand to build a wall.
He really dont understand politics your not supposed to keep your election promises.

He promised a wall, that Mexico would pay for, not the US people.