Is alliance gonna survive this expansion??

[CaptainV]

On the roleplaying community side as someone that rps on EU, alliance still has the bigger EU RP community, but frankly alot of horde RP has become toxic due to what id like to call "alliance rpers" moving to Horde.

But frankly from a lore POV, the Horde is finished, Ian Bates the red shirt guy has all but done the nerdiest thing ever of reading the mission table quest text and we learn how badly screwed the Horde is from that alone.

They're under attack from literally every angle and barely holding because they're all but destroyed, in eastern Kingdoms the only area lore wise the Horde has any presence in is Silverpine, The Ruins of Alterac, Dun Garogh in Hillsbrad, and Arathi besides Silvermoon obviously.

The Alliance has already retaken Southshore, Gilneas, Lordaeron and possibly Andorhal.

The Horde is struggling against a massive army from the Alliance at the Crossroads, and has been victim to Gurrellia warfare from the Alliance in Ashenvale, at Mulgore the gate to Southern Barrens is under threat by a dwarf army, Theramore is being scouted after by both armies.

And the Alliance Night Elf forces are building a "massive" retaliatory army to destroy Ogrimmar.

Yes, the Horde is in bad shape, lore wise, alot more than the Alliance even if gameplay wise, most servers have more Horde players.

In truth, its going to be the Alliance that wins the Battle for Azeroth war, because they are currently simply winning over all.

The Horde did bolster its numbers considerably with the Nightborne, Highmountain and Mag'har and soon to be Zandalari, but the Alliance also bolstered its own ranks with the Dark Irons and Kul'tirans and already had a bigger army to begin with.

Plus by the end of Dazar'alor, the capital of the Zandalar is in ruins, their fleet all but destroyed, and their people fractured and damaged more than ever.

While the Kul'tirans are united, and only lost a portion of their own fleet.

[Irian]

There is more horde players yet there is much more vocal Alliance complaining. You were the one bringing up horde players leaving the game because of "story" reasons when that is not the case. I counter argued your point on that.

The fact is Alliance RP is simply more toxic because there is more players leading to a more toxic environment. The RP players are also the ones constantly complaining about the lore also. And the heaviest community complaining about Void elves and High elves unless you missed that. The Alliance RP community has REALLY been very toxic during BFA. The burning of the tree, high elves, and my favorite "fat humans".

No, I never spoke about the Horde leaving, only that the complaints are numerous and extremely vocal. You'd have to be blind or in denial to look at WoW-related sites and not see Horde players unhappy with BfA and its lore direction. I think you've missed my point, that being that everyone has been bitching and not just Alliance.

Yes the Alliance RP community is unhappy overall, but so is the Horde and in fact my old friends on Horde in my old RP guild literally stopped RPing because of BfA. Nobody is happy, and it's not restricted to "Alliance are whiners". If you think there's any real difference between the people who play Alliance and Horde then you need fresh air.

[Mardux]

I'm playing both faction but the gameplay in this game is quite different for both factions.

Today i logged after 2 weeks period ( holidays ) to do some m+ rather..... to say a heartbreaking view with the m+ on the alliance side..
I picked up At'aldazar .. only 5 10+ for this dungeon (3 of them for gold boosting ) , Logged my horde char and the number ... 15x of those 10+ with some at + 16 and even more ..(ofcourse there was gold boost )

The difference is insane ...

I did same for the other dungeons and literally same view there..

It's like alliance side is non-existence at all.

Picking up Raiding is the same top 1000 there is 20% alliance participation ... And since legion has droped by a 15% same tier..
Our 3 top guilds ( 2 in top 200 ) switched to horde side last one was during Holiday.

Right now all top previous guilds switched to horde... Method...Vodca...Midwinter ..i can continue writing ..and not only that but aswell top pvp players switched in Wod after killing the emfh.. ( Pvp ladder 70% vs 30 on alliance side and ofc falling ... )
Human representation from 27% dropped to a 13.2% and still falling .

Seeing those numbers i can't find any solution of how to make appealing for someone to play alliance ...
PvP Rewards etc doesn't make it if you cannot raid and you cannot do any m+...
As for lvling+++ that alliance have .... what the purpose of lvling if you gonna reach 120 and find yourself isolated from anyone ...

So seeing all those thing is alliance gonna survive this expansion???

5 +10 ADs is more than i usually see when i log onto my horde toon.

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I started as horde on release and we were the minority. It was so bad on my server we could not get into any of the blackrock mountain instances after 19:00. From the entrance of the mountain to the entrances of the dungeons and raids it would be packed with alliance raids ganking and mindcontroling people into the lava. After being unable to play for a few weeks and being totally outnumbered, my friends and I rerolled Alliance.

Before christmas we as alliance we could not normally get into the raid, horde ganking all the way to the entrance. Best bets were taking a goblin glider into the portal from the ledge or having people without pvp plag go inside with a warlock... Levelling my alt with warmode on (30% buff) not possible groups of max level horde were ganking at the alliance quest hubs the last 4 nights I tried. A 30% buff will never make up for 60% of my playtime corpse running, nor is getting ganked fun. So warmode is off again.

The situation today is completely reversed from all those years ago but at least now we can opt in and out without having to pay Blizzard a fee. But they waited much too long with that to stop the alliance exodus. We're trying to start a new casual raid group after a split where the more hardcore players left to start amythic raiding guild. There are plenty of alliance players available in the LFM tool, but they are scattered all over the place. Finding enough people on your own server has become a challenge.

I know how you feel bud. Constantly being ganked while trying to level a highmountain warrior. 100% not worth.

[Polarthief]

I don't think this could be any more wrong. Sylvanas is literally the Warchief of the Horde and they can absolutely be judged based on her. It makes no sense to then compare her to Jaina given that Jaina 1) is not even a racial leader let alone the leader of the Alliance, and 2) wasn't genocidal.

By your logic, all Americans/white people are Trump. Well done. See how judging an entire group of people by one individual regardless of their position doesn't work? If Obama during his presidency were to steal something, would that "confirm" the (obviously-not-true) stereotype that black people steal?

I happen to play horde this expansion (forced out of necessity for raiding) and I don't agree with Sylvanas and rather want her dead (again) for her atrocities. Am I genocidal too?

Seriously though, that logic of yours needs fixing. It's extremely dangerous to assume things about an entire group of people based on the actions and ideals of a single individual in that group.

[Kieldon]

Nothing can fix what racials started. Method used to be Alliance for example. People who care about clearing Mythic asap don't give a shit about faction pride. So no, high-end statistics aren't dominated by Horde because it's "the better faction and much more fun, and Sylvanas, and ..."

Cross-faction is the only solution.

[Galathir]

I have 1 radical solution. Better gear from raids, m+ pvp for Alliance players. +5 per item or something. Players loves higher item level (and more gold). That might work but should be stoped when we have better balance.

How about no. This would surely cause the biggest shitstorm in WoW's history. Changing the warmode bonus is one thing but Alliance getting better gear for being Alliance is ridiculous and insane.

And when you stop it again Alliance players will moan because suddenly they get worse loot from the same activities they did before and even worse: You will have two factions that are equally large but the Alliance will be better equipped. So, how do you compensate that again?

[Louz]

By your logic, all Americans/white people are Trump. Well done. See how judging an entire group of people by one individual regardless of their position doesn't work? If Obama during his presidency were to steal something, would that "confirm" the (obviously-not-true) stereotype that black people steal?

I happen to play horde this expansion (forced out of necessity for raiding) and I don't agree with Sylvanas and rather want her dead (again) for her atrocities. Am I genocidal too?

Seriously though, that logic of yours needs fixing. It's extremely dangerous to assume things about an entire group of people based on the actions and ideals of a single individual in that group.

Yeah, because real life is just like wow, you live by accepting and completing tasks for whoever tells you

All americans would be Trump if all americans were his yes-men the moment he stepped in the office, just like horde players are sylvanus yes-men by doing whatever shit she orders them to.

Of course, this is WoW and having a branched story was never the case - even if you could choose one of two sub-factions or, as of the latest patch, side with Saurfang, or be Sylvanus' obedient pet, it never ever had (and most likely never will) any consequence.

So yeah, if you (your character) progress through the story as it's laid, you (your character) are as bad as Sylvanus, since you actually do the dirty work she orders you to do. Because if you don't you don't progress further.

[Nemisiscw]

By your logic, all Americans/white people are Trump. Well done. See how judging an entire group of people by one individual regardless of their position doesn't work? If Obama during his presidency were to steal something, would that "confirm" the (obviously-not-true) stereotype that black people steal?

I happen to play horde this expansion (forced out of necessity for raiding) and I don't agree with Sylvanas and rather want her dead (again) for her atrocities. Am I genocidal too?

Seriously though, that logic of yours needs fixing. It's extremely dangerous to assume things about an entire group of people based on the actions and ideals of a single individual in that group.

You really missed the mark here and the addition of the race part was just strange. Pretty much the only thing you got right is that yes, by my logic Trump being elected president does reflect on all Americans because he is the democratically elected president of America. The best I can tell from what you are trying to say is that you don't know the difference between a race and a political faction. The Horde is a political faction, I hope that clears things up for you.

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Yeah, because real life is just like wow, you live by accepting and completing tasks for whoever tells you

All americans would be Trump if all americans were his yes-men the moment he stepped in the office, just like horde players are sylvanus yes-men by doing whatever shit she orders them to.

Of course, this is WoW and having a branched story was never the case - even if you could choose one of two sub-factions or, as of the latest patch, side with Saurfang, or be Sylvanus' obedient pet, it never ever had (and most likely never will) any consequence.

So yeah, if you (your character) progress through the story as it's laid, you (your character) are as bad as Sylvanus, since you actually do the dirty work she orders you to do. Because if you don't you don't progress further.

Exactly, people get overly attached to their characters and forget that until we get some kind of branched story our characters are canonically what blizzard writes them to be. Currently Horde characters are active participants in some really bad things at worst, or are just ambivalent to those things at best.

[Galathir]

Of course, this is WoW and having a branched story was never the case - even if you could choose one of two sub-factions or, as of the latest patch, side with Saurfang, or be Sylvanus' obedient pet, it never ever had (and most likely never will) any consequence.

This is purely an assumption on your part.

So yeah, if you (your character) progress through the story as it's laid, you (your character) are as bad as Sylvanus, since you actually do the dirty work she orders you to do. Because if you don't you don't progress further.

Disagree. My character has taken no part in burning Teldrassil down. She has killed the assassins Silvanas sent after Saurfang and went directly against her orders. What other "dirty work" are you talking about that would make me or her as bad as a genocidal maniac?

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I agree about shit &@(_strom. But how i will compensate it? Asap new raid / m+ / season pvp with the same it lvl for both.

Not possible. Seasons are planned months in advance.

[darkblazer69]

As a raider i have played both alliance and horde. Raiders look at results and not rp mode or how to do quest more efficiency but... Killing the boss as easiest that can be done +... and i saw this as horde...
During Cata i switched to horde and the race was troll....Insane different in pve domain because of that racial + the beast slaying was quite handy until was nerfed

During Progress on Spine 4 guild members switched to troll because of the insane racial of Berserking... Mission acomplisshed killed and do the progress within 2 days...
I wonder how alliance guilds was progressing on Spine without an insane burst ability by any class back then..
20% Haste or 1% passive haste /1 crit during burn phase ... what is better ?

During Mop i was in quite good guild and was checking logs and rank;s... Plenty of times getting ranked in fight's ..
Funny odd i remember i was competing versus only troll race...no undead...no orcs ...not b elf and not talking about alliance race...bottom..

Even right now that i;m playing Alliance we we're having a chat in discord on mythic fetid progress... How better would be to have troll/orcs for adds...plenty of times wiped on 5~10% on add phase... something that if you play the correct race you would get a +...

Not saying but burn phase fight's is something that Horde had all those years and most of the bosses have those thing ....

Still wonder when gnome/ acrobatics....human emfh and night elf shadowmeld was usefull in raid environment...

[Nemisiscw]

Disagree. My character has taken no part in burning Teldrassil down. She has killed the assassins Silvanas sent after Saurfang and went directly against her orders. What other "dirty work" are you talking about that would make me or her as bad as a genocidal maniac?

Probably the part where in that same scenario you killed guards so that the rest of the forces could come butcher the civilians. Future writing might change but up to this point horde characters are either straight up evil, incredibly oblivious, or willing to let terrible things happen in order to retain their personal sense of honor. Which is fine for a fantasy game.

[Bumbasta]

An easy way to fix this is to give an alliance race a (temporary) stronger racial ability so the top guilds will change to alliance. Once the topguilds do, a lot of people will follow and it will become more balanced. It's also extra cash for Blizzard so im suprised they didn't do it already.

Another option is to make faction change from horde to alliance free or cheaper, while keeping the price of alliance to horde intact.

[Pucek]

Well,there's a one huge difference between - one was burned by the enemy faction,and other was destroyed by it's own leader,without any civilian losses.

Noo, there is no difference at all... both are gone gameplay wise and no one cares about lore whatsoever so Alliance players better stop whining. /s

[Alex86el]

you reap what you sow.
since the beginning, in every blizzcon, every podcast, blue post, twitter, commercial, and what else...
blizzard has been hypeing the horde.

also, just think about it,
you're a male teenager, what will you choose?
the boring good guys, or the edgy aggressors. i've been young, i know what i'd choose.
those people have grown now for sure, but they are fans of their faction. unlike alliance.

you go in orgrimmar and /yell for the horde. now go to stormwind and shout something similar.
spoiler alert, one side will passionately join in, while the other will be silent or even mock you.
passionate fans with young reflexes, vs dads and noobs who are dead inside.

[Deleted]

No, I never spoke about the Horde leaving, only that the complaints are numerous and extremely vocal. You'd have to be blind or in denial to look at WoW-related sites and not see Horde players unhappy with BfA and its lore direction. I think you've missed my point, that being that everyone has been bitching and not just Alliance.

Yes the Alliance RP community is unhappy overall, but so is the Horde and in fact my old friends on Horde in my old RP guild literally stopped RPing because of BfA. Nobody is happy, and it's not restricted to "Alliance are whiners". If you think there's any real difference between the people who play Alliance and Horde then you need fresh air.

i went back and read your original statement. I read it wrong. I'm legit sorry. I thought you meant something else. I'm in the wrong. Very sorry.

[Yriel]

Probably the part where in that same scenario you killed guards so that the rest of the forces could come butcher the civilians. Future writing might change but up to this point horde characters are either straight up evil, incredibly oblivious, or willing to let terrible things happen in order to retain their personal sense of honor. Which is fine for a fantasy game.

No in fact we rescued several alliance civilians. Player characters almost never do the few really bad things the Horde does.

[Nemisiscw]

No in fact we rescued several alliance civilians. Player characters almost never do the few really bad things the Horde does.

No in fact you did both. In the first town you killed the guards and then continued on while the army rolled in and killed everyone else. Then your character watched as the city burned, then you continued to accept quests directly from the banshee queen. Unless your character is Mr. Magoo they are well into being personally responsible for what is going on by now. It might suck for people who want to play good horde characters but that's just not the canon.

[Deleted]

you reap what you sow.
since the beginning, in every blizzcon, every podcast, blue post, twitter, commercial, and what else...
blizzard has been hypeing the horde.

also, just think about it,
you're a male teenager, what will you choose?
the boring good guys, or the edgy aggressors. i've been young, i know what i'd choose.
those people have grown now for sure, but they are fans of their faction. unlike alliance.

you go in orgrimmar and /yell for the horde. now go to stormwind and shout something similar.
spoiler alert, one side will passionately join in, while the other will be silent or even mock you.
passionate fans with young reflexes, vs dads and noobs who are dead inside.

That's one immature post if i ever saw one. Not surprising.

Also, typing "for the horde" = reflexes boys. It's science!

Immaturity is a strong reason not to join the horde. It has all the trolls! With that said, i play both sides and i know that your kind is a minority within horde players. As i know theres some of your kind on the alliance as well. Both are to be ignored. Getting riled up over someone yelling something in chat... lol. Those are some serious atention problems right there. The rest of us got real life friends and family. I mean... we are "dead inside" cause we don't need to seek self-validation anymore. It's flawless logic! lol

[Khallid]

See... that doesn't work. Because if the horde won the war, it would just execute everyone and turn them into undead.

Alliance has to win and alliance has to approach the amicable side of the horde races for an armistice. As it stands, alliance are the good guys. Horde can't win anything while under the leadership of Sylvanas. She would NEVER offer a peace treaty. That would be totally off character and no one would take her seriously.

But turning them into undead totally makes them Horde. You're inadvertently agreeing with me :P

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Except the Horde would just kill them all. That's the entire reason why this faction war story seems particularly sinister compared to previous.

Sylvanas has stated in no uncertain terms that she wants the Alliance defeated and raised into servitude for her. The Alliance on the other hand want to defeat Sylvanas and crush the Horde's aggression. There's no mention of wiping them out, no genocide, and considering in a recent novel Genn even admitted he felt like he was wrong about the Forsaken, I don't think they even plan to destroy them despite the fact that Sylvanas has done plenty to deserve it.
This leads to a story that feels really disjointed to me because there's no way for the Horde to honorably win this war. Honorable victory to them, under Sylvanas at least, means the complete extermination of their enemies.

Killing them all is fine. Then raise them as Undead. Therefore turning them into Horde. I didn't say anything about honor.

[Alex86el]

That's one immature post if i ever saw one. Not surprising.

Also, typing "for the horde" = reflexes boys. It's science!

Immaturity is a strong reason not to join the horde. It has all the trolls! With that said, i play both sides and i know that your kind is a minority within horde players. As i know theres some of your kind on the alliance as well. Both are to be ignored. Getting riled up over someone yelling something in chat... lol. Those are some serious atention problems right there. The rest of us got real life friends and family. I mean... we are "dead inside" cause we don't need to seek self-validation anymore. It's flawless logic! lol

You assume too much. Who said i am a fanboy?

If you really need to know, one of the reasons why i abandoned my first vanilla character, a troll shaman, was exactly what you (and me) are describing here.
Fanboys screaming for the horde everywhere like its a football match or some real life war.

I've also been playing both factions.
And yes, over the time things have become a bit more normal/grownup on horde side, for sure.

But let me tell you,
i know three people with the horde logo tattoo'd, thankfully not friends of mine.
i know a dozen people with horde mugs, flags, posters, keychains.
And zero people of the alliance equivalent. So there is logic to what i'm saying.

You know why i paid to swap to alliance in BFA?
Because i went out in the world to find some pvp, and there was only horde. Alliance ganked me? I asked the chat, a raid formed out of nowhere.
Now on alliance i find loads of people to pvp against. With the only downside being that i get either silence, or loser-mentality comments in chat, when i ask for backup.
Thankfully i am a rogue this time so i can manage solo.

No one can deny that bliz has marketed/hyped the horde a lot more. It's not an opinion, its a fact.
You only need to watch all the blizzcons and most other promotional content they have done to know this.