If toxic players quit over heroic/wholesome stories, what do we really lose?

[discofleshpot]

I don't think being gay is equivalent to blighting your own people and torching a tree full of innocents.

If anyone thinks that way, they probably need to re-evaluate their ethics.

The majority of the family on my fathers side think being homosexual means you're also a pedophile. Sooo... I mean, I can see some people thinking being gay is the same as what Sylvanus has done.

[Kralljin]

I wonder: Would they make "communist" or "liberal" or "conservative" toons or thats too complicated????

Magister Umbric says: All the wealth you've amassed and this is what you build, Gallywix? A den of depravity!
Magister Umbric says: Your ego is as bloated as your body. Think of the good you could've done for this world!

Not enough material to label him as such, but it kinda goes in that direction.

[Azurfel]

In my not-so-modest opinion, think she’s being set up to invalidate the pro-genocide, pro-villainy sentiment among the horde playerbase. It’s ok to be pro-horde, pro-Warchief, even pro-Sylvanas, but if WoW’s story causes an exodus of players who mockingly bathed in the tears of both alliance and horde players weeping over an objectively villainous act... is anything of value truly lost?

Here's the issue: at the moment, the toxic right-wing extremist/pro-genocide types seem to be practically the only ones who are *pleased* with BfA's story, particularly Horde side. All of the players i know who are quitting or considering quitting (in part) over the story direction are anti-genocide leftists and centrists (myself included). (And, my only WoW-playing friend who actually liked BfA's story direction is now an ex-friend because she went off the rails and started posting all sorts of pro-genocide/Putin nonsense on Facebook.)

On top of *that*, even if Blizzard is somehow able to use Sylvanas to alienate a segment of toxic Horde-aligned players, there is no indication that would have any effect on their Alliance counterparts (the types making vaguely fashy Lux Vult memes and/or projecting their very real-life xenophobia into the game and directing it towards the Horde races).

[Magnagarde]

So Overwatch just outed Jack Morrison as gay. That is objectively amazing news and I’m just loving the positive reception. It renews my faith in humanity to see this met with the overwhelming positivity it deserves.

This is where your thread lost any point because everything else seems like an adnex to you wanting to say this. You are misusing (or potentially abusing) WoW forum space to get unrelated points across, with the addition of the WoW-related part of your post not making much sense on its own and obviously serving to legitimize the existence of this thread.

Whatever the reason for it (and our opinions on it), this isn't the place to talk about it.

It’s ok to be pro-horde, pro-Warchief, even pro-Sylvanas, but if WoW’s story causes an exodus of players who mockingly bathed in the tears of both alliance and horde players weeping over an objectively villainous act... is anything of value truly lost?

The value lost is a lots of MAUs (apparently a very important aspect to Activision-Blizzard) and a possible $15 a month per head or $20 per token bought by players, not to mention how a shrinking community is a bad projection for the future of the game itself.

[The Stormbringer]

The whole comic was dumb. I mean really? This happens and people think it's great? It's ridiculous!

...because he should've been gay for Gabriel Reyes! I mean c'mon, that story practically told itself! You're telling me he fell for some rando civilian instead of the guy he was closest to, worked with day in and day out, and wound up having a dramatic rivalry with? I call bullshit!

- - - Updated - - -

More minority bullshit that has no relevance on the game it self. I don't understand why game devs have a need to shove this down the throat of their player base, next it will be tracer is a sjw/feminist advocate. Enough all ready, i just want games and none of this real life bullshit thrown in.

So what some people are gay,bi and/or transsexual, just stop throwing it in my face, i couldn't give two shits about what or who you are.

What about straight people being straight 'in your face' all the time? Does that bother you too? It's all over the place with men and women holding hands, kissing, grinding on each other. Truly disgusting. More majority bullshit!

[Magnagarde]

Using the word "toxic" unironically for anyone who disagrees with you and your hysterical joy over a video game character being gay makes me think you might just be a snowflake generation gamer. There's nothing "wholesome" or heroic about a character coming out as gay, do you even know what the words imply?

Your entire post is just a pathetic passive aggressive rant.

That is exactly what it seems to be.

Not to mention how the WoW-related forum space was abused to get an unrelated point across.

[CritFromAfar]

I’m going to longwindedly ask a question with as much civility and respect as possible, and I ask that we all do the same with any potential responses, if any.

So Overwatch just outed Jack Morrison as gay. That is objectively amazing news and I’m just loving the positive reception. It renews my faith in humanity to see this met with the overwhelming positivity it deserves.

On the loudly minority flip side, however, we have the ocean of salt from people who are not happy with this development. Many hate-laden tables are being flipped and angry abandonments are going on, and I have to ask myself: Is anything of value being lost?

Turn this now to a WoW front. Sylvanas is a divisive figure. For different and mostly in-universe reasons, people feel strongly about her for or against, but I’ve observed a lot of the more mature judgment of how this is being handled is being left for how the payoff plays out. One side of this multifaceted character’s supporters must be let down by what happens to her. You can’t really tell a story that validates the burning of Teldrassil while simultaneously satisfying the “team Saurfang” crowd, or even the “dammit Sylvanas why did you burn the tree, I know there is a side of you worth following bit this ain’t it, Warchief” crowd. I’ve asked before who you step on here, who do you validate? In my not-so-modest opinion, think she’s being set up to invalidate the pro-genocide, pro-villainy sentiment among the horde playerbase. It’s ok to be pro-horde, pro-Warchief, even pro-Sylvanas, but if WoW’s story causes an exodus of players who mockingly bathed in the tears of both alliance and horde players weeping over an objectively villainous act... is anything of value truly lost?

Blizzard has the unenviable task of curating an online gaming community in an age where that very concept of internet gaming is a jaded and wholly taken-for-granted perk of the modern world. Toxicity born of that complacency and expectation has made the community of any online game its best and worst, certainly its most volatile feature. The best elements of blizzard games are when robust and strategic quality of life features highlight our best to each other, while protecting us from the worst of each other. That’s where the quality of blizzard really shines. We’ve seen it time and time again, and it happens like clockwork. Blizzard excels at protecting us from ourselves whether we like it in the moment or not.

To wrap it all up with a question: If the stories blizzard tells in its games alienate the elements of the modern internet gaming community where we become the most toxic to each other, to the point that certain players quit over it... is anything of value truly lost? Indeed, if they lean right into it, don’t they stand to have much to gain as this aspect plays out and becomes, even more, part of their reputation?

People that quit WoW over something as small as the story are probably taking the writing too personally. I've never viewed WoW as having great writing and that's never stopped me from enjoying the game. Memes and pop culture references aren't good writing, which is what a lot of WoW's quests and voice dialogue are based off of.

Even though I don't feel toxic behavior should be tolerated, I honestly think your conclusion for why people are leaving might be off (I also think your comparison is off, but that's neither here nor there in regards to your main point). WoW's writing hasn't changed much and I find it hard to believe that could matter more to players than mechanics or their classes not functioning to their liking. If enough people leave, though, the game will flounder, and it will be the people that still play that will lose out.

I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you're trying to get at though, maybe it's just me, but I'm fairly certain that WoW isn't protecting people from themselves in any way and I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with some of your points. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure why you think that Blizz's stories are pushing away toxic players (I understand your comments about Slyvanas, I just don't see how that's relevant to why people are leaving). What reputation are you referring to?

[Khallid]

To wrap it all up with a question: If the stories blizzard tells in its games alienate the elements of the modern internet gaming community where we become the most toxic to each other, to the point that certain players quit over it... is anything of value truly lost? Indeed, if they lean right into it, don’t they stand to have much to gain as this aspect plays out and becomes, even more, part of their reputation?

That level of convenience is pretty unlikely. Things don't go that smoothly in real life.

[Deleted]

Or in other words; OP is a left wing voter that loves gay characters and thinks his liberalist views are superior to others, despises right wing views and labels them 'toxic' and 'nothing of value'.

And you're totally trying to be civil and respectful? My ass.

[Kumorii]

That is objectively amazing news and I’m just loving the positive reception. It renews my faith in humanity to see this met with the overwhelming positivity it deserves.

Don't really care for characters sexual orientation, this line of thinking bugs the fuck out of me though. Cause it's making a deal out of something and celebrated something that shouldn't be a deal or celebrated to begin with.

[etheldald]

i really don't care what characters or people do with their sexual life, like, that is so irrelevant.

and i fail to see what that has to do with the wow story.
if they make anduin,jaina,saurfang or sylvanas gay... would that be important? or that would somehow ruin the characters?

i mean seriously who the hell CARES about that stuff?
he is gay? he isn't ? so?

[Boricha]

Eh, the Solider 76 thing is just random. Why release this nugget of info now, 3 years into a game that barely even has lore to begin with. Feels like some kind of PR thing more so than well-thought story progression.

Also, I think an extreme minority of people quit wow purely because of bad writing. More than anything, I quit BFA because I no longer enjoyed any of my classes. Not even to mention the convoluted new progression systems and mundane, unrewarding daily content. This expansion has had some really silly and nonsensical writing, but I'd gladly accept it if classes had depth again.

[Craaazyyy]

hows that objectively amazing news? it doesnt matter

[Azurfel]

People that quit WoW over something as small as the story are probably taking the writing too personally. I've never viewed WoW as having great writing and that's never stopped me from enjoying the game. Memes and pop culture references aren't good writing, which is what a lot of WoW's quests and voice dialogue are based off of.

I mean, it's been almost a decade since WoW was last worth playing solely for the gameplay imo, so personally i'm more confused as to why anyone would have stuck around for this long if they *didn't* have a lot of love for and interest in the Warcraft universe itself...

[Hehalol]

I'll just sit here and await your source on how many subs WoW currently have. :>

i had to login today just because of your shitposting. How about you do your own quick little google search before accusing others of not having number. AS OF NOV 16th the pop was around 1.7 million users. Not even close to 2.5 mil like the other guy mentioned.
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/...zeroth-1932930

[temple1906]

I’m going to longwindedly ask a question with as much civility and respect as possible, and I ask that we all do the same with any potential responses, if any.

So Overwatch just outed Jack Morrison as gay. That is objectively amazing news and I’m just loving the positive reception. It renews my faith in humanity to see this met with the overwhelming positivity it deserves.

On the loudly minority flip side, however, we have the ocean of salt from people who are not happy with this development. Many hate-laden tables are being flipped and angry abandonments are going on, and I have to ask myself: Is anything of value being lost?

I like how you pretend to want to have a discussion about this while immeidately stating your own personal bias and demonizing your opposition. A master debater you are.

The problem has nothing to do with the character being gay. The problem is 100% that it's pandering for the sake of pandering. A characters sexual orientation in Overwatch has NOTHING to do with the game in any concievable way. It's pointless and frivilous. It's actually insulting. You truly believe that Blizzard made 76 gay, OUT OF NOWHERE, because they believe in representing the LGBT community? Really? Or is it more likely that they're knee deep in controversy and are trying to use a characters sexuality (that again, was never an issue because it has no impact on the game) to deflect criticism?

It's pretty difficult to objectively deny all of the major issues Overwatch currently has without flatout ignoring evidence or doing olympian mental gymnastics. It's much easier to handwave the games detractors as being homophobes. You're already doing this, in fact! You're handwaving away criticism by calling the detractors hateful bigots. Companies are not your friends. Blizzard is not some altruistic corporation that just wants everyone to feel happy and included all of the time. They want your money and they don't want you talking about how they spend more time crawling through peoples social media to ban them for being toxic outside of the game, rather than consistently creating NEW CONTENT. They don't want you talking about how the sorry state WoW is currently in, and how they ignored feedback from ALPHA about all of the issues we currently have. They don't want you talking about OWL isn;t profitable. They don't want you talking about HotS is being axed quietly behind the scenes. They don't want you talking about how Hearthstone is bleeding players. They DEFINITELY don't want you talking about Diablo Immortal or that they're on record as wanting to focus more on mobile development. And they CERTAINLY don't want you talking about all of the execs that are leaving or getting fired.

No, they want you talking about how amazing they are for abritrarily making a character gay. They want you rabidly defending them online because you can't understand that tokenism is different from representation, and they know that. You are so blinded by ideology that you can't see the manipulation taking place right in front of you.

[Raqubor]

Please, can you tell me honestly if you are memeing or trolling at this point? Ahh, don't bother you won't anyway.

This is my honest opinion.

[Minikin]

wait wait. are players really leaving WoW because of bad writing? honestly?

I can totally understand leaving due to the game being boring or gameplay sucking. but leaving cuz of bad writing just sounds dumb.

[Azurfel]

wait wait. are players really leaving WoW because of bad writing? honestly?

I can totally understand leaving due to the game being boring or gameplay sucking. but leaving cuz of bad writing just sounds dumb.

It goes deeper than mere bad writing. It's about the direction the story/lore has taken, particularly for the Horde.

The most unique and notable aesthetic feature of WoW has *always* been the non-villainous Orcs, Trolls, Minotaurs, Undead, Drow, Demons, and Goblins.

Take that away and all that's left is just generic, boring fantasy.

[therealbowser]

I'm sorry to break it to you but people quit bfa for other reasons and very few give a crap about the atrocious writing in last expansions. Even your sylvanus fan fictions that you write in your spare time might be better than what happens in bfa storywise

The Alliance vs Horde stuff is rather bland (as to be expected), but I personally have enjoyed the Kul Tiras and Zandalar storylines.