Should level 120s still be able to gank lowbies with no repercussions?

[SirCowdog]

Yes that's much better than letting people decide for themselves if they're ok or not with not being able to fight back.

If you personally don't want to fight back, just go AFK whenever an opponent shows up. Don't confuse that with making it so NO ONE can fight back(except capped players).

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[QUOTE=Winter Blossom;50713572]The middle ground is that you have an opt in/out option in regards to WPvP.

That's not a middle ground. That's an extreme. :/

It’s not meant to be a fair battle in the world.

As I literally just explained, it would not be complete fair. All it would mean is people could actually fight.

I just asked to not think in such extremes, but here you are......

Now, you can agree or disagree with that, but that’s how it currently is and I don’t see any reason to change it when an option is given to players.

Because maybe there are better options than "Get shit on if you flag for War Mode or just don't don't play War Mode"?

[Felmourn]

Because maybe there are better options than "Get shit on if you flag for War Mode or just don't don't play War Mode"?

What would be the point of opting into Warmode if you aren't prepared to fight?

[Segus1992]

Not really.

You knew the risks, you turned it on so it's your problem. War mode off exists for a reason. You not using the steps to remedy your issue with gankers is entirely on you.

Either turn it off or continue getting ganked. Your choice really.

Yes, system is perfect because you can turn it off. Genius!

I'm not turning war mode off either way but preventing people with tiny dicks from feeling good about themselves by ganking isn't a bad thing.

[Flutterguy]

There are people in this thread right now that think max level players ganking low level players when PVP is enabled is a new concept. Sweet summer children..

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Except it isn't. You took it out of context so you could try to sound superior answering something that was never asked.




Except I've specifically spoken out against using punishment as a method of controlling Ganking, because I want to promote ways of encouraging more people to participate in PVP, not just punish them or get them to leave because they don't play how I like. And no...scaling down players who are bottom feeding in low level zones, so their targets can actually fight back, is NOT a punishment.

Maybe you should try reading with the intent to understand instead of the intent to be angry at someone disagreeing with you. :/

Yes, it is. If you don't like being killed, don't use it. Battlegrounds sound exactly like what you want.

Read the post I @ you in, thats where the issue lies. Your idea is "fair" and "better" to you, but to the next guy it isn't. Its a shitty idea all around. Pvp in a war game should have some all out things like we have in wpvp currently. Battlegrounds and Arena exists and that is EXACTLY what you are asking for.

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I can see your skill at killing low levels

I prefer what he said, sharding at it's finest and in warmode you only encounter people in 5 level range, 120's having their own. That would be war, soldiers actually having a chance at a fight, not feeling like a fucking civilian being killed by an elite troop instead of a hero in a war.

If I got killed ONCE and it ended there it's ok for me, they were just passing by and wanted to have a little fun with a low level, granted. But then camping the low level with 120 ultra geared characters, i'm sorry that's not "PVP" that's pathetic, and people who defend that are the psychos who enjoy it, i'm sorry.

I actually don't gank - unless you count going to get my main after being ganked. Working as intended.

I don't much care what you prefer. "More fair" pvp exists right now in the form of battlegrounds and Arena.

And comparing this real war? Civilians die all the time. Not a great idea.

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The thing is.... "Turn it off" IS a legit answer if all you want is to stop being ganked.

The problem is that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about trying to make the entire system better for EVERYONE....not just the people interested in ganking.

But they don't want that. They just want to keep killing characters that can fight back.

No you are trying to make it better specifically for the way you want to play.

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We're still waiting for your answer on how to implement the system you're telling people about. We already know its going to cause a ton of problems and we have asked for you to explain it. You said we could discuss them yet when asked you've only ignored it.

We know the system you're thriving for won't be better for everyone, it'll be better for people who are greatly out'leveled by the attacker but the rest? I doubt it.

Even if his idea came to fruition it would be a bad one. It would further segment the population. Leveling would be emptier. Thats just a fact. And then would come all the people who want "more fairness" after this "fairness" change.

Again, I cannot reiterate, for someone that wants "fair" pvp we literally have battlegrounds for larger scale and arena for small scale battles; this will cap the amount of players on each side. There is fairness. We have rated battles as well that puts you into battle with people close to your skill level. Problem solved.

[SirCowdog]

Any option that penalizes players for engaging in WPvP, is not a better option.

You mean like the existing penalty of getting one-shot with no chance or ability to respond?

I’m actually shocked that players are even debating this.

That's funny, because I was thinking the exact same thing. Maybe it's because I've played a more broad depth and array of different types of PVP games than most. I spend 5 years in EVE online. I've played uncounted fighting games, FPS, etc.

I just don't see how anyone can look at the state of WoW's open world PVP where players are regularly one-shot, and think that it's good.

First it was players complaining about PvP servers and how it wasn’t fair that they should have to transfer off, to now players saying an opt in/out option isn’t good enough - “we don’t want to be ganked if we opt in!”. It’s like, wtf, guys... are you only going to be happy if you can immediately disable PvP mode when it suits you? If you opt in, you should always be a red target, no matter your level, and a lower level player shouldn’t receive any power-ups so they can compete.

You seem to be misinterpreting or misunderstanding what I'm advocating. Stop assuming that I'm just repeating what OTHER people have said, and read what I'm actually saying.

Where did I say that getting attacked was something that should be avoided? Where did I say that being a target was a bad idea?

I WANT more fights to happen. I just want those fights to not be one-sided, one-shots. Not perfectly fair, perfectly balanced duels. Just a chance to fight back when attacked. Why is that so hard to understand?

One thing I actually liked was when the Darkshore zone first happened, they introduced that feature where if a player killed a certain number of the opposing faction, an icon appeared on the map and the other faction is alerted to them. That would be cool to have put in the world, and it could give lower level players a chance to have people come defend them (and get some PvP rewards), while still allowing WPvP to happen without structure and baby-gates.

And why should a low level player have to get shit on multiple times before a potential fight between actual legitimate threats can begin? Where is the benefit in that? Why not START with the ability for ALL players to jump in and chase the bounty as credible threats to the target from the beginning?

*Actually, don’t we have that feature in BFA already? Idk, I don’t play as much now, but I recall it happening in BFA zones while I was leveling.

Yes, the bounty system is in BfA. AFAIK it only works from 110-120 though? That's the only place I've seen it, anyway.

[Syce]

Nah. The people who spend their time at max level ganking level 20s have enough problems going on.

yup, and i have had this happen to me 2 days ago. i was in Thunderbluff on my lvl 70 and was getting ganked by a 120 hunter. sure its annoying having to run back to my body but i laugh that they wont touch another 120 because they probably couldnt beat them. so it just makes me giggle knowing that.

[SirCowdog]

Yes, it is. If you don't like being killed, don't use it. Battlegrounds sound exactly like what you want.

Except that BGs are TOO regulated and TOO balanced.

You're making the same mistake other people are: You're assuming I want something that I've never said I wanted.

Read the post I @ you in, thats where the issue lies. Your idea is "fair" and "better" to you, but to the next guy it isn't. Its a shitty idea all around. Pvp in a war game should have some all out things like we have in wpvp currently.

I'm sorry, how exactly could it be WORSE than every single leveling character being unarmed, useless, targets that can contribute NOTHING to a WPVP fight?

Keep in mind here that the context of what I'm talking about isn't to create perfectly balanced matches like we see in BGs. It's simply to remove the state where many players literally can't fight in PVP, regardless of taking the risk of flagging for War Mode.

Even if his idea came to fruition it would be a bad one. It would further segment the population. Leveling would be emptier. Thats just a fact. .

What? You're going to have to explain that. How would implementing a system that allows more people to engage in PVP segment the population and make levering emptier? How is that a "fact"? o_O

[Felmourn]

yup, and i have had this happen to me 2 days ago. i was in Thunderbluff on my lvl 70 and was getting ganked by a 120 hunter. sure its annoying having to run back to my body but i laugh that they wont touch another 120 because they probably couldnt beat them. so it just makes me giggle knowing that.

There is some optimism, additionally I always end a griefers fun by logging off and playing another alt/my main. That or hearth to Silvermoon/Stormwind and do a bit of RP till I feel like they've left.

[adamzz]

It's a bad system and I think it could be improved.

If you don't want to be ganked turn off warmode.. It's called warmode not peacemode.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Except that BGs are TOO regulated and TOO balanced.

You're making the same mistake other people are: You're assuming I want something that I've never said I wanted.

I'm not making a mistake. And people don't always get what they want. BG and Arena are the compromise there. You have so many options but instead you just want to stomp your feet and scream "thats unfair" when you can opt-out and literally level your character by queuing for BGs, and then doing arenas. There is your fairness.

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I'm sorry, how exactly could it be WORSE than every single leveling character being unarmed, useless, targets that can contribute NOTHING to a WPVP fight?

Keep in mind here that the context of what I'm talking about isn't to create perfectly balanced matches like we see in BGs. It's simply to remove the state where many players literally can't fight in PVP, regardless of taking the risk of flagging for War Mode.



What? You're going to have to explain that. How would implementing a system that allows more people to engage in PVP segment the population and make levering emptier? How is that a "fact"? o_O

I've already explained that but you keep ignoring it, and literally repeating "BUT THATS NOT WHAT I WANT" while bolding some letters, underling, italicizing etc....

[SirCowdog]

These aren’t my quotes. Not sure what happened. Can you correct it, please?

whoops! Sorry, I was copy/pasting the quote format. Got yours instead of LemonPartyFan

[SirCowdog]

I'm not making a mistake. And people don't always get what they want. BG and Arena are the compromise there. You have so many options but instead you just want to stomp your feet and scream "thats unfair" when you can opt-out and literally level your character by queuing for BGs, and then doing arenas. There is your fairness.

Again, you're arguing against something I'm not saying. Where did I "stomp my feet"? Has anything I've said been framed in unreasonable or trolling/complaining terms? I'm making reasonable points here, with logical arguments. PLEASE do not attempt to portray me as some whining complainer who's just mad about being killed in PVP. This thread does not need that.

Let me repeat it again: I want players to actually be able to fight in PVP. I don't want to avoid being defeated in PVP. If I get defeated in PVP, I want it because I fought and lost, NOT just that a high level player clicked a button and one-shot me. I want everyone to have this opportunity, NOT a guarantee of victory one way or the other.

Stop before replying. Just stop. Read what I wrote again and THINK about it objectively instead of assuming I'm just complaining. Only then reply.

I've already explained that but you keep ignoring it, and literally repeating "BUT THATS NOT WHAT I WANT" while bolding some letters, underling, italicizing etc....

That's because you're explaining something that I'm not even talking about. If I'm repeating my point of view in different ways, it's because I'm attempting to get you to respond to what's actually being said instead of....whatever else it is you're arguing against that I'm NOT saying. :/

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There is some optimism, additionally I always end a griefers fun by logging off and playing another alt/my main. That or hearth to Silvermoon/Stormwind and do a bit of RP till I feel like they've left.

The thing is, if you leave War Mode or quit the game, that doesn't end the griefing. They just go to another area and do it to someone else.

This is why "just turn it off" is only a half-measure and a personal response. It doesn't address the issue of griefing, and it doesn't improve the underlying system that allows it in the first place.

[munkeyinorbit]

Scaling in wpvp is just another grab by the entitled. You didn't earn that level that your opponent has. Stop acting like you deserve it as well.

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Yes, system is perfect because you can turn it off. Genius!

I'm not turning war mode off either way but preventing people with tiny dicks from feeling good about themselves by ganking isn't a bad thing.

I applaud the gankers as it gets the micro dicks out to comp;aim about it on the forums.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Again, you're arguing against something I'm not saying. Where did I "stomp my feet"? Has anything I've said been framed in unreasonable or trolling/complaining terms? I'm making reasonable points here, with logical arguments. PLEASE do not attempt to portray me as some whining complainer who's just mad about being killed in PVP. This thread does not need that.

Let me repeat it again: I want players to actually be able to fight in PVP. I don't want to avoid being defeated in PVP. If I get defeated in PVP, I want it because I fought and lost, NOT just that a high level player clicked a button and one-shot me. I want everyone to have this opportunity, NOT a guarantee of victory one way or the other.

Stop before replying. Just stop. Read what I wrote again and THINK about it objectively instead of assuming I'm just complaining. Only then reply.




That's because you're explaining something that I'm not even talking about. If I'm repeating my point of view in different ways, it's because I'm attempting to get you to respond to what's actually being said instead of....whatever else it is you're arguing against that I'm NOT saying. :/

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The thing is, if you leave War Mode or quit the game, that doesn't end the griefing. They just go to another area and do it to someone else.

This is why "just turn it off" is only a half-measure and a personal response. It doesn't address the issue of griefing, and it doesn't improve the underlying system that allows it in the first place.

I'm reading exactly what you wrote. And you need to read what I am writing. BG and Arena is to a T what you are asking for. Utilize that function of the game.

You aren't repeating logic, you just keep saying "thats not what I want!!!!" when people show you alternative ideas.

[Deleted]

Yes, if you want to compete in pvp, level up, it's a part of the journey.

Are you born with a succesful career and a large wealth? 98% of us aren't.

Stupid question, next!

[SirCowdog]

I'm reading exactly what you wrote. And you need to read what I am writing. BG and Arena is to a T what you are asking for. Utilize that function of the game.

You aren't repeating logic, you just keep saying "thats not what I want!!!!" when people show you alternative ideas.

BGs and Arenas are not the open world. It is very distinctly NOT what I'm asking for.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Here, I'll use short simple concepts: Open World PVP without one-shots.

Can I boil it down any further for you?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

BGs and Arenas are not the open world. It is very distinctly NOT what I'm asking for.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Here, I'll use short simple concepts: Open World PVP without one-shots.

Can I boil it down any further for you?

No: that is a poor idea and good alternatives exist to what you're asking for. Your problem in this thread is that you will apparently only accept someone that agrees with you. You won't answer any questions, you won't look at it at a different way. Thats why I keep saying you are stomping your feet and whining. Added to that your weird way with bolding, italicizing etc.

[bloomy]

this has to be a troll post... yes, obviously.

[SirCowdog]

No: that is a poor idea

Why is it a poor idea? Why are one-shots a good game mechanic for PVP? Because it adds risk? There are other, better ways to do that. Combat in WoW should have better foundations than one-shotting players until someone immune to one-shots decides to show up. WPVP should have more depth than that.

Your problem in this thread is that you will apparently only accept someone that agrees with you.

No, I just won't accept when someone claims that I'm saying or doing something I'm not. I also won't allow someone to twist the meaning of my point of view because it's easier to argue against that than what I'm really saying.

You won't answer any questions

Such as what? Let's start this from a clean slate. Tell me what you want to know, and without the veiled insults of saying I'm throwing a tantrum please. Because that definitely doesn't encourage me to treat you with respect or understanding. This is the second time I've asked you not to do that, so please conduct yourself with more reasonable and non-inflammatory arguments.

Added to that your weird way with bolding, italicizing etc.

It's called enunciation. Since this is a written medium I can't just use different tone of voice to emphasize words, so I have to use bold, underline, and italics to get it done.