Should level 120s still be able to gank lowbies with no repercussions?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Why is it a poor idea? Why are one-shots a good game mechanic for PVP? Because it adds risk? There are other, better ways to do that. Combat in WoW should have better foundations than one-shotting players until someone immune to one-shots decides to show up. WPVP should have more depth than that.



No, I just won't accept when someone claims that I'm saying or doing something I'm not. I also won't allow someone to twist the meaning of my point of view because it's easier to argue against that than what I'm really saying.



Such as what? Let's start this from a clean slate. Tell me what you want to know, and without the veiled insults of saying I'm throwing a tantrum please. Because that definitely doesn't encourage me to treat you with respect or understanding. This is the second time I've asked you not to do that, so please conduct yourself with more reasonable and non-inflammatory arguments.



It's called enunciation. Since this is a written medium I can't just use different tone of voice to emphasize words, so I have to use bold, underline, and italics to get it done.

I have explained why its a poor idea.

I'm not twisting. You refuse to answer questions and keep repeating yourself despite multiple people coming to you with issues and questions. Instead you repeat yourself and add exclamation marks and bold lettering. That, to me, is whining and stomping. No, you don't need to use boldings etc.

1. Your idea will further fragment the community. Its already split between PVP and PVE type players. Not only that, it will further fragment by levels. What will be the parameters? 10 levels up and down? Or will it just be 1-10 bracket, 11-20 bracket etc? (if using 10s)

2. How will you address the further complaints for "fairness?" We have already seen someone say any level difference is unfair I believe, and people saying ONLY within 5 levels is fair... do you not see how fragmented the community will be if we have brackets of 5 levels?

3. How does further sharding address issues with groupings? If I am outside the 5-10 level cap of a friend, what happens? Are we just phased until we are closer?

4. Why isn't opting out of WM and just joining BGs and Arenas not sufficient? By suggesting this I am not saying ganks and one-shots don't occur, I'm saying they aren't as big of a deal as you make it out to be. And while that isn't EXACTLY what you are demanding, it 100% (as told by several others) almost exactly what you are suggesting. "Fair" PVP...

[Felmourn]

The thing is, if you leave War Mode or quit the game, that doesn't end the griefing. They just go to another area and do it to someone else.

This is why "just turn it off" is only a half-measure and a personal response. It doesn't address the issue of griefing, and it doesn't improve the underlying system that allows it in the first place.

Unfortunately this is the only option unless you want them to shard the world even more based on ilvl/level. That would be the only way of making WPVP fair, and I am not in favor of making the small world smaller.

[Th3Scourge]

Every now and them if I'm travelling through an old zone and come across a lowbie I might throw out a howling blast and one-shot the bastard. It gives me a bit of a chuckle and I go on about my day. Yes I'm a bit of a cunt

[SirCowdog]

1. Your idea will further fragment the community. Its already split between PVP and PVE type players. Not only that, it will further fragment by levels. What will be the parameters? 10 levels up and down? Or will it just be 1-10 bracket, 11-20 bracket etc? (if using 10s)

Wait...I've been arguing in favor of using scaling, not brackets. I haven't used the brackets concept for quite some time now. While I think brackets could work, I've admitted that it's not an ideal solution(albeit it would still be better than the current setup IMO).

Scaling higher level players down would actually serve to increase the potential pool of WPVP players. And it would do so without using sharding or phasing, allowing for more spontaneous WPVP fights to happen naturally. Using the definition of "WPVP fight" to not include one-shots, since that's really just a person fishing for a fight with an actual opponent.

2. How will you address the further complaints for "fairness?" We have already seen someone say any level difference is unfair I believe, and people saying ONLY within 5 levels is fair... do you not see how fragmented the community will be if we have brackets of 5 levels?

I can't speak for other people. As I've said, the idea here is not to try and create a perfectly balanced and fair situation for every single encounter in WPVP. It's simply to remove one-shots from the equation and bring the disparity between players to a point where fights can take place.

As I've said just above, brackets are probably not the best way to do this.

3. How does further sharding address issues with groupings? If I am outside the 5-10 level cap of a friend, what happens? Are we just phased until we are closer?

See 1 & 2

4. Why isn't opting out of WM and just joining BGs and Arenas not sufficient? By suggesting this I am not saying ganks and one-shots don't occur, I'm saying they aren't as big of a deal as you make it out to be. And while that isn't EXACTLY what you are demanding, it 100% (as told by several others) almost exactly what you are suggesting. "Fair" PVP...

Because the idea is to promote better World PVP, not just drive people away.

Again, I caution you against making assumptions about what I'm saying based on what other people are saying. There's a lot of nuance here and it's too easy to get confused like we just did when I thought we were talking about scaling, and you thought we were still arguing brackets and sharding.

My idea of "fair" WPVP is setting up a system where people can actually fight instead of just getting one-shot. IMO one-shots of any kind don't really have a place in PVP outside of headshots in FPS games with sniper rifles. And even that's somewhat debateable, depending on the setting.

Ganking of low level players is an extreme, the same way killing opponents in one-hit is extreme, especially in an RPG setting. So when I use the word "fair", I mean it in the context of promoting actual fights where skill and build determine the outcome instead of some arbitrary level number. That doesn't preclude people having an advantage of one kind or another! A higher level player definitely has the edge in terms of toolkit. But it shouldn't be so disparate of an edge to where a fight literally can't happen.

There's a lot of wiggle room there, and it irritates me when people assume I'm talking about extreme ends of the argument when in fact I'm talking about the middle ground.

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Unfortunately this is the only option unless you want them to shard the world even more based on ilvl/level. That would be the only way of making WPVP fair, and I am not in favor of making the small world smaller.

See my post above about scaling being a better solution.

[NED funded]

Just turn off your warmode.

Seems simple enough.

[lappee]

Even if his idea came to fruition it would be a bad one. It would further segment the population. Leveling would be emptier. Thats just a fact. And then would come all the people who want "more fairness" after this "fairness" change.

Again, I cannot reiterate, for someone that wants "fair" pvp we literally have battlegrounds for larger scale and arena for small scale battles; this will cap the amount of players on each side. There is fairness. We have rated battles as well that puts you into battle with people close to your skill level. Problem solved.

It would be the likely scenario yeah where twinks of different levels dominate wPvP, meaning you can't even call your high level friends to help you since they can't really do anything.

Sadly he doesn't want to explain how the system would work (after saying he would discuss it) but rather take the approach of "I'm not going to do the job for Blizzard", aka he doesn't really have a clue but only a dream.

[Adunai]

Wait. 27 pages? Twenty-seven pages of people arguing over killing lowbies... AFTER Blizzard removed PvP servers??

Hello, 2019, my new friend.

[Kudos]

Just turn off your warmode.

Seems simple enough.

You'd 'think' it would be that simple. However, the amount of people complaining, but refusing to turn it off because 'Mah 10%' is too damn high.

[Adunai]

Here, I'll use short simple concepts: Open World PVP without one-shots.

Then this is a wrong game for you. The entire concept of WoW is about levels and gear. It hasn't changed in decades.

If you want a fairer wPvP, check out WoW Classic. A difference between a lvl 40 and a lvl 50 is far smaller than in modern expansions.

[Segus1992]

Scaling in wpvp is just another grab by the entitled. You didn't earn that level that your opponent has. Stop acting like you deserve it as well.

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I applaud the gankers as it gets the micro dicks out to comp;aim about it on the forums.

Can't even think of your own insult to use? Did you think mine was so scathing you couldn't possibly think of a better one, or what?

[Deleted]

You'd 'think' it would be that simple. However, the amount of people complaining, but refusing to turn it off because 'Mah 10%' is too damn high.

It's not 10%, it's 30%. It's only alliance who are complaining.

[rohoz]

Then this is a wrong game for you. The entire concept of WoW is about levels and gear. It hasn't changed in decades.

If you want a fairer wPvP, check out WoW Classic. A difference between a lvl 40 and a lvl 50 is far smaller than in modern expansions.

I mean if you're comparing a well geared 40 to a 50 still wearing level 40 gear, sure. 10 level difference assuming both are using level appropriate gear was generally a massacre

[Lenarific]

Here is whats neat all the CAREBEARS calling gankers assholes and low lifes and unskilled..... well heres whats funny keep calling us names and we will keep ganking you untill either A. you move to a different zone.... B. call in some friends to help C. Log onto your main and come show us = combat or D. Log off rage out log back on and turn off warmode.... Do you think i care if im slowing down your questing.... you opted in for that juicy bonus rather if it is 10% or 30% you did have the choice.... Now your choice equates to what iv listed.... i will be ganking so if you see me don't dance don't wave just run....

[Cyram]

How does turning off the system fix the system? That's like saying turning off a computer that's not working correctly fixes the computer because it opts you out of having to use it in the first place.

I don't want to have to turn off warmode, I want to be able to use it while leveling. Even if it didn't have bonuses, I would still want to use it so I can engage in pvp while leveling. I find that aspect fun. Being killed over and over again by players where I have absolutey zero chance of getting away or winning the fight is NOT pvp, it's not fun, and it takes away from the entire system blizzard is trying to promote.

Having WM on comes with the possibility of being ganked and killed over and over again where you have absolutely zero chance of getting away or winning, though. It's part of the MMORPG thing, and WM On allows people to enjoy said feature.
I personally don't like it. I tried it with an alt - a rogue, and it was fun, but at the end of the day it wasn't really worth the hassle. So unless I'm bored and want to try it again, I choose not to turn WM on.
The system isn't broken so you looking for a fix is futile. The solution to your problem is to turn it off because apparently you can't deal with the consequences of having it on.

[HeiAggra]

Personally I feel like it's an outdated system. I feel like being ganked while leveling is much more of a problem with sharding. At the very least I feel like the bounty system should be implemented for low levels.

And yes I know warmode can be turned off, but the danger of having it on should be from having to fight other players, not randomlly getting killed over and over by bored level 120s.

I dont kill low lvls because it's just no point. What's the fun in killing someone that can't even respond?
But well the truth is that if we have pvp on we will be killed and need to cope with that.

[callipygoustp]

It'd be fun to see a bounty system added along the lines of +100g to the bounty on your head for every character you kill below your level. While said bounty is on your head you can't turn off PvP and it doesn't go away until you are killed by another player.

Or

Every time you kill a lower level character you get debuffed -5% damage/hp for an hour.

[Temp name]

It'd be fun to see a bounty system added along the lines of +100g to the bounty on your head for every character you kill below your level. While said bounty is on your head you can't turn off PvP and it doesn't go away until you are killed by another player.

Or

Every time you kill a lower level character you get debuffed -5% damage/hp for an hour.

That first one sounds like a great way to farm gold, I like it.

Just make a bunch of trial accounts, run to an empty zone where you won't be interrupted with warmode on, have your friend on the opposite faction kill them for as long as you want, then kill your friend. Bam, shit ton of gold

[Deleted]

I tried ganking for the first time in years last week. I had the most fun I’ve ever had playing. I ravaged Duskwood on my alt lvl 90 UD Rogue, and when the lvl 120 mains came to kill me it became a thrilling cat and mouse game. Trying to escape and outplay them, to kill the low lvls despite the 120 presence.

[SirCowdog]

Then this is a wrong game for you. The entire concept of WoW is about levels and gear. It hasn't changed in decades.

If you want a fairer wPvP, check out WoW Classic. A difference between a lvl 40 and a lvl 50 is far smaller than in modern expansions.

You may be right. WoW's WPVP is like drawing with crayons, and I've seen the masterpiece of the Sistine Chapel.

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Having WM on comes with the possibility of being ganked and killed over and over again where you have absolutely zero chance of getting away or winning, though. It's part of the MMORPG thing

Yes, but have you ever asked yourself why it's "part of the MMORPG thing"? Because not all MMOs handle WPVP this way.

The system isn't broken so you looking for a fix is futile. The solution to your problem is to turn it off because apparently you can't deal with the consequences of having it on.

The system is deeply flawed and overly simplistic. While it may not be "broken", it has a LOT of room for improvement.

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I tried ganking for the first time in years last week. I had the most fun I’ve ever had playing. I ravaged Duskwood on my alt lvl 90 UD Rogue, and when the lvl 120 mains came to kill me it became a thrilling cat and mouse game. Trying to escape and outplay them, to kill the low lvls despite the 120 presence.

And how would this be different if everyone in the zone was the same level as you? You'd still be a rogue attacking people from stealth when they didn't expect it. You'd still be hiding to avoid detection. People would still be chasing you.

The point being that you could have gotten the same experience without one-shotting people who can't fight back.

[Alphatorg]

"Ganking" and world PVP is the LFR version of PVP. It's an oppotunity for the unskilled to feel good about themselves and powerful because they kill someone who doesn't really have a chance to fight back. I don't think Blizzard intends to limit that aspect of the game.